Firearms? Good or Bad?

pool

pure evil
Aug 20, 2001
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general, response to those who condone hunting animals and those who find it inhumane ...

I tend to lean toward the North American Indians outlook on killing animals, which was for food, clothing and shelter. No part of the animal went to waste. At the same time they had a respect for animals and didn't see them as just part of a gratuitous sport or trophy. They believed in a blurred continuity or kinship between people and animals. However their understanding of the ecosystem wasn't that great in retrospect.

That is in contrast to the general outlook of the "new north american" philosophy that we are separated from them and superior. Being humans gives us power and control over other species, but I think we have a responsibility not to abuse that power. Viewing animals as an object of sport and entertainment is an abuse of our position of responsibility and brutalises society to-wards animals and nature.

I have mixed feelings on the hunting of animals. In essence if the prey is being killed for food it is entirely gratuitous. In modern society people do not need to kill food for themselves but can buy it from a source where animals have been killed humanely. That is assuming you call being born and raised in a state of deprived captivity humane.

It would be hypocritical of me to denounce all hunters with one wide brush as I, like most of us, get my meat all nicely prepackaged with pretty labels. My view on hunting boils down to the motivation. In a way the person who can look the animal in the eye and kill it rather than buy it from the supermarket with little thought that a life was taken is less of a hypocrite and should be worthy of more respect.

However, my experience with some people who like to hunt is that they are pretty thoughtless and it's more about their own ego and the macho bravado of their sport. I tend to "judge" them more on an individual basis, because they all have different outlooks motives and cultures, and many are conscientious on some level. I'm sure it takes some skill to track down an animal and kill it, but looking down the barrel of a gun at 50 paces and pulling a trigger seems none to brave or worthy of respect to me. Many animals people view as "game" would tear their assailant to shreds if confronted on their own terms. If we were to go back in time, before man in all his infinite wisdom invented guns ( or other weapons that lend distance between assailant and prey ), I could appreciate an individuals skill and resourcefulness at killing prey for survival.

I've "played" ( nothing more than a 22 ) with guns in the past, but never shot an animal. I remember it as being a rush, which is purely self indulgent. For some reason I've always felt akin to animals long before learning of Buddhism or the Indians outlook. Quiet possibly because I [de] evolved from animals.
 

George OTJ

George of the Jungle
Nov 12, 2003
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North York
pool said:
I have mixed feelings on the hunting of animals. In essence if the prey is being killed for food it is entirely gratuitous. In modern society people do not need to kill food for themselves but can buy it from a source where animals have been killed humanely. That is assuming you call being born and raised in a state of deprived captivity humane.
Good post. I don't want to distract from what you are saying, but I would qualify this one section.

Excepted from this are those individuals who choose to make their lives in the wilderness; whether it be northern Canada or the wilderness areas of Alaska. This is an exception which is also noted under the gun laws which permits granting gun and hunting licenses below the normal minimum age for those family members who need to hunt to put food on the table. In these cases, it's not a matter of eating what you kill; but of killing game animals to survive.
 

johnyboy

Original..Non Original
Jul 19, 2002
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In Someones Will Hopefully!
I think that all people have basic inherent instincts. One of mine is to hunt. To all the expense and trouble I go through to be able to hunt I could never imagine giving it up because it is brutal. I still think it is a very honorable tradition. Much like martial arts it can be abused but when you have respect for what you do and see it as an integral part of keeping man and nature as one you then can only then see its importance. Game is like beautiful women it is a shame and disrespectful not to use it for what it was originally intended for. There is no doubt that it has a macho element but so what so does football., mountain climbing and boxing to name but a few.

Of all the ways an animal dies, disease, old age, starvation, predication, a death by a hunter is relatively painless and quick. Think about it, they are not human they die a slow agonizing and lonely death. Here they have something made of themselves (ie venison sausage sorry couldn't resist) a truly noble death..to sustain others.
 

mrpolarbear

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Sep 10, 2001
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bbking said:
The handgun part I agree with - there is no need for a sidearm unless your LE or Army. But I quess you could get rid of squirrels with a 22
Here in Illinois we have a handgun season for deer, i think its this weekend.
 

Maximus69

Member
Oct 3, 2001
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huh?

I don't seem to understand some comments of people who seem to be anti-hunting. I am a hunter myself and I enjoy it very much. True, there are some hunters who are un-ethical but it is no more different than any other hobby or sport. My ethics are if I don't eat it, I don't hunt it.

There was mention of there being no need to hunt since we can buy meat from the grocery store where atleast we know tha animals die a humane death. WHAT? are you for real? a humane death? These animals are raised in slaughter houses where they are injected and fed all sorts of garbage, They are raised with no chance to move around, and when there number is up they are usually shot in the head and get a knife to the throat. If that's a humane death to you, then I totally disagree.

For anyone who hasn't hunted or never will, just remember one thing. We the hunters are the ones who pay inflated prices for permits and tags to preserve these animals and their habitats so they don't become extinct. These animals have a much better chance for survival then do those who are born and raised to die in the slaughter houses. Anyone who bashes hunting and eats meat is nothing but a hypocrite.

As far as gun laws. They are a joke. I agree with the strict laws for handguns as they can be easily concealed and are the preferred weapon for criminals. But for long guns? This registry crap is nothing but a cash grab for the government and are only affecting the innocent, law abiding citizens who own guns. They have spent well over $1 billion on the registry program for what? Has there been any law abiding citizen who owns a gun shoot someone lately? That $1 billion could have been spent on tightening our borders so that smuggled guns can't reach the criminals who are going to use them. Remember people, it is the government who is trying to make people feel "safe" by feeding them this registry crap and how good it is, just to appease the public and for them to make a little bit of extra cash as well.

Guns don't kill people, People kill people!

Max
 

Garrett

Hail to the king, baby.
Dec 18, 2001
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Sheik said:
Garrett, I see you have not experienced or seen civil wars in Africa.
Nope... but I have seen enough people killed by guns that it pisses me off when people pull out the "guns don't kill people... " argument. I am also not sure how far you are going back, but I am pretty sure they have guns in Africa. Before that... I am familiar with the Zulus and that is about it...

Interesting how this always degrades into a discussion of hunting. Hunters are, generally, not the problem... other than the ones who think hauling a bottle of Jack and sitting in a blind is being one with the outdoors. I think an animal should be allowed to be an animal... and hunting is more humane than a slaughterhouse. However, I have seen too many hunters waste animals to have a high opinion of them...

Oh yeah... I used to own a gun when I lived way up north... in the city, no chance... people who want to own guns in the city as a "hobby" should take up needlepoint or something...
 

johnyboy

Original..Non Original
Jul 19, 2002
520
36
28
In Someones Will Hopefully!
What because of economic necessity we must live in the city yet hunting is somehow diminished because we do not live up north what in the hell difference does that make.

Also why is it when someone experiences some one act improperly when hunting it seems okay to whitewash the whole crowd so easily and yet if it was a religion or color you would be stamped a racist. I think people go out of there way to find excuses (no kidding says to self) because I am a big time hunter 3 weeks per year and none of my hunting pals or acquaintances behave other than very decent law abiding people who I am proud to know. Where are all these droves that you speak of?

As for the coyote at that point they should of what ??taken it to a hospital because it was really scared and wounded...really who is the fucking idiot.
For your information coyotes are not a natural species to this area, only in the last 20 years have they been noted. There populations have exploded because of the easy access to bunnies, spring fawns, ground nesting birds and more than the odd family pet. So typical of an anti hunter talking out his ass not his brain...helicopter..yeah right..like very very illegal...get some facts until then maybe you should listen and ask questions silly boy.

Horses now there's a sport we could talk about that is cruel and antiquated. But you probably think you’re a really special loving country folk ...ya know like to bad the world didn't have more people like you...ya right
 

BigBlack

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Jun 26, 2002
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Garrett said:
Nope... but I have seen enough people killed by guns that it pisses me off when people pull out the "guns don't kill people... " argument.
Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Take guns out of the equation and you'll still have knives, clubs, drugging , smothering, stoning... the list goes on forever.

Now removing guns means one less weapon out there ( and the best weapon for killing). I see your point there. If all us nice law abiding people didn't have guns, we'd be target practice for the criminals which have the advantage of guns.

BBLACK
 

HowardHughes

Reclusive Member
Jun 26, 2003
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Las Vegas penthouse
Guns don't kill people - people kill people.

I support gun control - but I think that there should be some way to seriously regulate them.
 

Garrett

Hail to the king, baby.
Dec 18, 2001
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BigBlack said:
Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Take guns out of the equation and you'll still have knives, clubs, drugging , smothering, stoning... the list goes on forever.


If I have my choice between someone having a gun, a knife, or a baseball bat... the choice is pretty simple. A 10 year old kid with a gun can take me out.

Now removing guns means one less weapon out there ( and the best weapon for killing). I see your point there. If all us nice law abiding people didn't have guns, we'd be target practice for the criminals which have the advantage of guns.
Well, I believe most howeowners that have guns actually have them used against them as opposed to defending themselves. There are towns where everyone has a gun, crime rate is low, and I think it is low simply because they are distinct. Make every place like that and forget about it...

People love their guns, little doubt about that. I think responsible gun owners should be pushing for real gun laws... push for change in the US too... and clean up their *cough* sport.
 

Garrett

Hail to the king, baby.
Dec 18, 2001
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HowardHughes said:
Guns don't kill people - people kill people.
You know, this is just plain stupid. The bullet out of the gun kills. It is not like people are squeezing bullets out of their ass and throwing them at people.

Guns kill. People with guns kill. Bottom line, get rid of the guns and I will make sure to keep a pillow under my pillow to protect myself from smothering attacks.
 

HowardHughes

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Jun 26, 2003
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Um...wasn't that my point?

Making mention of throwing bullets is probably an entertaining notion - however - the last time I checked - it's the guy holding the gun, and squeezing the trigger that seems to make the whole contraption work...

The bottom line here, Sherlock, is that you are not going to get rid of guns - hence my second line about needed more effective gun control.

Apparently, you can go back to your fingerpainting now...just remember that class naps are at one o'clock.
 

fordescort

New member
Aug 17, 2003
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guns kill people....

... so do kitchen knives, hammers, exhaust fume from cars, fatty food. The list goes on and on. What is your point, Garrett?
 

HowardHughes

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Jun 26, 2003
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Evidently, he needs to live in a germ-free environment like myself.

Get yer Lysol out Garret!!!! Germs can kill too!!!!!

*walks away shaking his head*
 

Garrett

Hail to the king, baby.
Dec 18, 2001
2,361
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HowardHughes said:
Um...wasn't that my point?

Making mention of throwing bullets is probably an entertaining notion - however - the last time I checked - it's the guy holding the gun, and squeezing the trigger that seems to make the whole contraption work...


It is a weird attempt at stupid semantics that is comical in the way it is parroted by gun owners. Hey, people have to respirate.. it is the air that people breathe that actually enables the muscle activity! Let's blame it on air!

The bottom line here, Sherlock, is that you are not going to get rid of guns - hence my second line about needed more effective gun control.
Actually, your statement was "I support gun control - but I think that there should be some way to seriously regulate them.". Not exactly a sterling example of clarity. For someone trying to get all hoity toity, you should at least use proper English that actually communicates your point.

Apparently, you can go back to your fingerpainting now...just remember that class naps are at one o'clock.
You know... just say you cannot argue the point and need to degrade to infantile statements. No need to beat around the bush.
 

Garrett

Hail to the king, baby.
Dec 18, 2001
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Re: guns kill people....

fordescort said:
... so do kitchen knives, hammers, exhaust fume from cars, fatty food. The list goes on and on. What is your point, Garrett?
Yes... the ever logical argument. I will tell you what... you have a choice... I will shoot a gun at you.. or blow exhaust fumes in your general direction. Which would you prefer?

As long as people are going to use examples like this, they will never have credibility. There are better arguments for guns... the fact that you would use this one is telling.

As for my problem with guns, I have had friends killed by them. I don't like them. Pure and simple.
 

HowardHughes

Reclusive Member
Jun 26, 2003
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Wow - aren't we getting a touch cranky this morning?????

You seem to have some big words - I merely suggested a general solution - sorry I couldn't type an amendment to the constitution for you - geez...just can't fit that all in here.

Do us a favour Garret - go put your wifebeater t-shirt back on, and close the door to your trailer - it's getting embarassing.
 
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