Final Presidential Debate

[tompeepin]

Yeah, like Kerry is ever going to appoint a judge that deosn't fit his style??

Exactly! But at least Kerry says it directly based on the issue, instead of being a chickenshit chickenhawk "war time" president. hehehe Bush should have said: yes my conservative "base" ("the haves and have mores") are for overturning Roe vs Wade and I will try and get it done for them, appointing Judges that pass my litmus test. "I don't believe in liberal activist judges." Judges should be conservative and uphold the status quo even if that means overturning "progress" made thus far.

 

[banshie]

Yeah, like Kerry is ever going to appoint a judge that deosn't fit his style??

All presidents do this. If you were president wouldn't you do the same thing? I know I would.

Kerry gave an honest answer. Bush didn't. End of story.

 

[onthebottom]

I don't - considering how he won in 2000 - he had no choice.


bbk

Those people were prominent in his campaign and during the convention - they were in those jobs (at least in Bush's head) before the mess in Florida. Give credit where credit is due, it will make your criticisms more cutting.

OTB

 

[tompeepin]

Those people were prominent in his campaign and during the convention - they were in those jobs (at least in Bush's head) before the mess in Florida. Give credit where credit is due, it will make your criticisms more cutting.

OTB

I agree. On appearances credit certainly should be given. However Colin Powel was marginalized. Only the sycophant Rice was given what "appears" to be any influence. Rod Paige was appointed as pay back for cooking the books in Texas' "no child left behind" program. But yes with regards to public relations and appearances, credit should be given.

 

[langeweile]

Exactly! But at least Kerry says it directly based on the issue, instead of being a chickenshit chickenhawk "war time" president. hehehe Bush should have said: yes my conservative "base" ("the haves and have mores") are for overturning Roe vs Wade and I will try and get it done for them, appointing Judges that pass my litmus test. "I don't believe in liberal activist judges." Judges should be conservative and uphold the status quo even if that means overturning "progress" made thus far.

Believe the base got the message.

As for calling abortion progress? Limited at best. While I believe in a womans right to make her own decision. I don't believe abortion should be used as a means of birth control.

 

[tompeepin]

While I believe in a womans right to make her own decision. I don't believe abortion should be used as a means of birth control.

I agree. But because of that, one simply does not ban abortions categorically. Also Kerry voted against partial birth abortions not because he was for them, but rather because the legislations was so absolute and did not provide provisions in cases where the life of the mother was at stake. That is the problem with Bush. He is all or nothing.

Also one would be strongly for advocating contraception and sex edu, no? And certainly not deny aid to third world countries that advocated "planned" parenthood, based on their doing so.

 

[onthebottom]

I agree. On appearances credit certainly should be given. However Colin Powel was marginalized. Only the sycophant Rice was given what "appears" to be any influence. Rod Paige was appointed as pay back for cooking the books in Texas' "no child left behind" program. But yes with regards to public relations and appearances, credit should be given.

tp, you only lessen your own credibility when you find it impossible to admit something that is counter to your propaganda - the above back handed comments are more of this. You just become a demagogue.

OTB

 

[langeweile]

I agree. But because of that, one simply does not ban abortions categorically. Also Kerry voted against partial birth abortions not because he was for them, but rather because the legislations was so absolute and did not provide provisions in cases where the life of the mother was at stake. That is the problem with Bush. He is all or nothing.

Also one would be strongly for advocate contraception and sex edu, no? And certainly not deny aid to third world countries that advocated "planned" parenthood, based on their doing so.

Goverment should provide sex education through schools, based purely on biological and scientific factors. Goverment has no business getting in to the politics of sex education.

When and how to distribute birth control to my children, should be my decision alone. Period.

 

[tompeepin]

tp, you only lessen your own credibility when you find it impossible to admit something that is counter to your propaganda - the above back handed comments are more of this. You just become a demagogue.

OTB

Talking about demagogues; isn't Bush the master demagogue? "Mr. Terra, himself". But that is a whole different topic.

Did you listen to Rice at the 911 hearings?

Does Powell have any relevance or respect within this administration?

Didn't Texas get it's good "no child left behind" numbers by promoting drop outs. You see drop outs are not counted, just like people not filing unemployment claims are not counted whether they remain unemployed or not; how convenient.

But you are right I did question motive without knowing for sure exactly what they were. However, one can certainly suspect "patronage" and public relations appointment in any government.

You are right, credit should be given to the leaders of this administration for the diversity of their appointments no matter what the motives were.

 

[tompeepin]

When and how to distribute birth control to my children, should be my decision alone. Period.

I believe that your children or whomever wants it, should have confidential access to birth control. It might mean that they do not have to seek access to "secret" and or "illegal" abortions in the future.

They have rights that supersede yours.

 

[langeweile]

I believe that your children or whomever wants it, should have confidential access to birth control. It might mean that they do not have to seek access to "secret" and or "illegal" abortions down the road.

Absolutely positively not. It is my responsibility as a parent to educate them on the issue.
I will be the first to protest any decision, his or her school take to do this without my consent.

Parents will agree with me in, that no matter how well you prepare them, they will never be safe from mistakes.
You can only hope for the best.

 

[langeweile]

I don't disagree with your statement at all. I just don't want any bureaucrat to do this for me.
Sex education for a child is more than just giving them birth control and going through the mechanics. There is soo many other issues that go with it, especially on an emotional level.

Educating a child on the subject of birth control, and handing them out, are two different issues.

 

[langeweile]

My point is that it should be available to them, without parental consent. I would sooner any child of mine would not, but if they did I would like them to know that they could easily get protection. Having the State force me to run interference will most likely cause the child to ignore safety. Now having said that, I do think an underage minor requires parental consent for abortions as I do think a minor is not capable of making that decission alone. Minors are going to have sex, I would sooner any child of mine do it safely than behind my back.


bbk

I don't think you need parental consent to buy a condom, or do you?
By the time a child is at the age of thinking about sex, the "talk" should have happened already. My philosophy has always been, if they are old enough to ask they are old enough to know.
Which brings up another point. Children mature at a different pace, who other than the parent knows when the child is ready?

I hope i can keep the channels of communications open with them, so they always feel, that they can talk to me about everything. It's a dream, but it's dream worth fighting for.

 

[langeweile]

This is chilling I agree.

 

[tompeepin]

Government should stay out of the bedrooms of the people and also out of advocating "morality" ie: abstinence and out of a women's right to choose. Thus even though personally I do not like the idea of abortion, it should be legally available, what I like is irrelevant.

Government should not be advocating a religious position. Every citizen should be able to choose for themselves. If children engage in sex they should have access to birth / std control as well as the knowledge of the existence of birth / std control and where to get birth / std control.

Small government means just that, small government. And not just small government in cases of social finances but big government in cases of social morality. Not just small government related to small business and employee issues but big government intervention for big business.

Republicans = small government for social finances but big government for social morality; small government for employee issues but big government for big business issues. Small government for the poor guy, big government for the rich guy. Small government for humanitarianism and big government for religion.

Democrats = Big government

Libertarians = small government

 

[assoholic]

.. I always have to0 laugh at thye notion that Republicans favour small Governments, oh sure they always talk about it but do you know who added more civil servants then any one else, Ronnie Reagan. I just dont get how conservatives dont get upset when there champions do the oppossite of what they ay they are going to do, and still support them.

 

[tompeepin]

.. I always have to0 laugh at thye notion that Republicans favour small Governments, oh sure they always talk about it but do you know who added more civil servants then any one else, Ronnie Reagan. I just dont get how conservatives dont get upset when there champions do the oppossite of what they ay they are going to do, and still support them.

And now the biggest department of the government ever created in one go, that of homeland security. As if the CIA and FBI could not have been overhauled. Nope need big brother. No one is concerned about the American deaths due to hospital errors or due to the lack of poor treatment of medical conditions or of the flu every year. No 3000 in NY was spectacular and sensational. Then 1000 and counting had to be added to that. No one pays attention to the fact that the US finances are the real clear and present danger to US national security in the coming years.

Maybe I am a real conservative. I advocate conservative fiscal policy, small government and little government intervention domestically and abroad.

 

[ocean976124]

And now the biggest department of the government ever created in one go, that of homeland security. As if the CIA and FBI could not have been overhauled. Nope need big brother.

The Homeland Security Department is a Democrat idea that Bush opposed but it gained so much traction in the media that he relented and formed it.
I guess the Dems did a better job than I thought. Not only did they get the political clout to force Bush to form the Department of Homeland Security but now they have made those who dislike it believe its a Republican venture....

 

[ocean976124]

My point is that it should be available to them, without parental consent. I would sooner any child of mine would not, but if they did I would like them to know that they could easily get protection. Having the State force me to run interference will most likely cause the child to ignore safety. Now having said that, I do think an underage minor requires parental consent for abortions as I do think a minor is not capable of making that decission alone. Minors are going to have sex, I would sooner any child of mine do it safely than behind my back.


bbk

You can make it available to them, but studies in the US have shown that handing out condoms does not increase condom usage among high school students...

 

[ocean976124]

Government should stay out of the bedrooms of the people and also out of advocating "morality" ie: abstinence and out of a women's right to choose.

Government is always involved in morality to a certaine extent. Otherwise, "separate but equal" would still be considered legal!

As far as "advocating morality", the government does this all the time. Why do you think the government gives tax breaks and benefits to married couples?
On the surface it seems like morality. But ultimately its about encouraging the behavior that seems best for society as a whole. The government can't force you to do anything, but it sure can make a certain way more attractive.