Federal Budget

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Banned
Mar 12, 2004
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Trying to make corrections without increasing taxes -- .
WOW,...for once we agree,...but after 14 years,...they still really haven't corrected the education problem,...and in fact increase taxes at every opportunity!!!

And to get the story straight here,...the Fed Fiberals cutting transfer payments to Ontario,...when the population dared to elect the PCs,...is what was behind the PCs austerity measures.

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JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
19,441
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If you are all about balanced budget, did you cheer for Paul Martin and cus Harper for his years of deficit?
Which did you like better, the Martin surpluses or the Harper deficits?
Paul Martin was the first finance minister with the guts to do what was required
He deserves a lot of credit for cleaning up past liberal messes (Trudeau Sr.).
However he also inherited the GST from the PC Finance minister Wilson.
That GST was the cash cow he need to slay the Trudeau debt mess

The conservatives continued down this path of reducing debt
The 2008 financial crisis showed that PM Harper & the PCs were flexible enough to spend when stimulus spending was prudent
More importantly they spent on infrastructure & were able to reign in that spending once the crisis had past and did not expand the size of the Federal government
They had a plan and generally stuck to it, managing to debt to GDP targets and working to decrease the tax burden on Canadians
Had the price of oil stayed above $100 the surplus would have been substantial

Wynne / McGuinity on the other hand have expanded the already bloated provincial govt through constant hiring along with ill-advised and underserved pay increases for the public sector
This type of spending is next to impossible to turn off
The provincial debt to GDP ratio has increased to the point where credit agencies are raising alarms & incremental borrowing will start to get more expensive
Wynnes plan is to ignore the debt and layer on more taxes ("Revenue tools") onto the already excessively taxed Ontario taxpayer.
Mark my words: She will not deliver a balanced budget during her tern=m and will depart office with debt bomb closer to $330 B than the current $288 B
By that time interest rates will have started to normalize and the shit will really hit the fan as Interest costs will increase dramatically.

Call this biased if you want, however the numbers do not lie
The Federal budget sets us up for future tax cuts, which will be stolen from us by the irresponsible Provincial budget
 
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JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
19,441
4,742
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Trying to make corrections without increasing taxes -- Harris team including most of the people currently running for leadership tried hard to tie future governments hands.
You do not know what you are taking about
The provincial debt has more than doubled since the moron Liberals took office
While I am disgusted with the idea of increased taxes, that would have been more prudent than doubling of the debt to an unmanageable level

Fourteen years in office & you still want to blame the processors?
Well just be sure to apply that same logic going forward as the current Liberal debt mess will still be haunting your kids decades after you have departed this world
 

bver_hunter

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2005
30,473
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The worst growth period for deficits was definitely the Mulroney Government. Yes Chretien and Martin cleared that deficit and handed Harpo a healthy surplus. The worst recession we experienced, that was even worse than this recent recession was during the Seventies and eighties. Many economies including that of Canada and UK were hit badly. Harpo always uses that for his political commercials paid for by the taxpayers.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
107,657
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You do not know what you are taking about
The provincial debt has more than doubled since the moron Liberals took office
While I am disgusted with the idea of increased taxes, that would have been more prudent than doubling of the debt to an unmanageable level
The increase in debt in Ontario has been fairly similar to the Canadian debt, with the exception of the Martin liberals.
Harper has nearly doubled Canada's debt.

Ontario has suffered through the move to make Canada a petro state, which boosted the dollar and killed a lot of manufacturing.
Tax rates had nothing to do with that, and as we can see from Harper's corporate tax breaks, it hasn't done much for Canada to make our corporate tax rates so low.
 

bver_hunter

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2005
30,473
8,511
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Mulroney inherited the huge Trudeau debt. Too bad each Prime Minister can't start their mandate without the legacy of the Trudeau debt.
It was worse under Mulroney and that was during a time when other nations were prospering, unlike the seventies and eighties during the deep recession. Trudeau did not create the unemployment rates that Thatcher's UK were going through along with a number of other nations. I hail Trudeau for all he did like not micromanaging people's lives by creating bills like the C36.
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
19,441
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The increase in debt in Ontario has been fairly similar to the Canadian debt, with the exception of the Martin liberals.
Harper has nearly doubled Canada's debt.

Ontario has suffered through the move to make Canada a petro state, which boosted the dollar and killed a lot of manufacturing.
Tax rates had nothing to do with that, and as we can see from Harper's corporate tax breaks, it hasn't done much for Canada to make our corporate tax rates so low.
You are a fool who does not understand what you are talking about

In 2000 the Federal debt to GDP was over 50% while Ontario was 29.5%
After 14 years of liberal mismanagement Ontario's ratio has increased to a dangerous 38% while the Federal ratio has declined to 33%

In addition the Ontario net debt per capita has almost doubled from $11K to $21K , while federally the net debt is flat at $17K for ever Canadian.
Your article shows continued increases in net debt per capita for Ontario while Federal debt loads will decrease

Given the federal personal income tax rates are double that of Ontario
http://www.kpmg.com/Ca/en/IssuesAndI...d-surtaxes.pdf

The Feds are in a much better position to reduce that debt going forward, unless it is Wynnes plan to double taxes

The trends are moving in the right direction for Ottawa , while Ontario is foolishly allowing the debt to grow
If you think these two are comparable , then you are on glue

http://www.fraserinstitute.org/resea...rest-payments/

TORONTO, ON—By every measure, Ontario is much deeper in debt than California, the poster child for fiscal irresponsibility, finds a new report released today by the Fraser Institute, an independent, non-partisan Canadian public policy think-tank.
Furthermore, according to the most recent information available, interest costs will represent the fastest growing part of the provincial budget from 2012/13 to 2015/16, increasing at 5.5 per cent annually—more than twice the projected rate of growth in health care expenditures.
Ontario is in a bad situation—worse than California. As numerous reports have shown, including this most recent analysis, if the provincial government wants to steer Ontario towards financial sustainability, it should rein in spending,” Speer said.
WRT PM Harper making Canada a Petro State
What a pile of shit
The market demand for oil has been strong for the last decade, while the market demand for Ontario's uncompetive manufactured goods (ex-currency) was constantly declining.

Your implication the PM controlled these market forces is absurd

For decades Federal and Provincial governments (from all parties) have told Ontario Manufactures & unions they had to increase productivity to stay competitive and could not continue to rely on a weak $CAD.
They ignored this advise as productivity in Ontario has remained static while competitors increased their productivity.
That is the reason Ontario's manufacturing sector has suffered

Finally if you still foolishly insist the high dollar is the root of Ontario's manufacturing woes, please explain why the current $0.80 level has not resulted in a rebound in this sector & why the majority of new investments in the Auto sector are going to the southern US & Mexico ?

It comes down to productivity, not your bogy man the PM controlling the currency bullshit
He has no control over our currency.

The more you post the more you come across as a fool
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
107,657
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You are a fool who does not understand what you are talking about

In 2000 the Federal debt to GDP was over 50% while Ontario was 29.5%
After 14 years of liberal mismanagement Ontario's ratio has increased to a dangerous 38% while the Federal ratio has declined to 33%







WRT PM Harper making Canada a Petro State
What a pile of shit
The market demand for oil has been strong for the last decade, while the market demand for Ontario's uncompetive manufactured goods (ex-currency) was constantly declining.

Your implication the PM controlled these market forces is absurd

For decades Federal and Provincial governments (from all parties) have told Ontario Manufactures & unions they had to increase productivity to stay competitive and could not continue to rely on a weak $CAD.
They ignored this advise as productivity in Ontario has remained static while competitors increased their productivity.
That is the reason Ontario's manufacturing sector has suffered
You cherry picked your dates, Harper has personally nearly doubled Canada's debt, taking us from surplus to record deficit.

And you ignore policies that favoured oil production over manufacturing, Harper had a choice and he's always chosen resource exploitation over manufacturing.
 

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Banned
Mar 12, 2004
10,064
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You cherry picked your dates, Harper has personally nearly doubled Canada's debt, taking us from surplus to record deficit.

And you ignore policies that favoured oil production over manufacturing, Harper had a choice and he's always chosen resource exploitation over manufacturing.
Manufacturing was centered in Ontario,...the UNIFOOLS and Ont. Fiberals screwed that over,...anybody would give up on that combination,...!!!

Except of coarse Magna and Toyota and Honda,...then on the opposite end of economic reality,...you have the teachers unions,...Ontario is done as a manufacturing base.

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Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
107,657
32,101
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Manufacturing was centered in Ontario,...the UNIFOOLS and Ont. Fiberals screwed that over,...anybody would give up on that combination,...!!!

Except of coarse Magna and Toyota and Honda,...then on the opposite end of economic reality,...you have the teachers unions,...Ontario is done as a manufacturing base.

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Free trade, end of tariffs and the rise of the petro dollar did way more damage to Ontario's manufacturing then Ontario's provincial government or the unions.
 

Marcus1027

New member
Feb 5, 2006
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[aiQUOTE=FAST;5230901]Manufacturing was centered in Ontario,...the UNIFOOLS and Ont. Fiberals screwed that over,...anybody would give up on that combination,...!!!

Except of coarse Magna and Toyota and Honda,...then on the opposite end of economic reality,...you have the teachers unions,...Ontario is done as a manufacturing base.

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......and all three companies you mentioned are all 100% NON-FUCKING UNION, does that maybe ring a bell in your head? Also may I add that they all pay wages and benefits comparable to GM, Ford etc, so keep that in mind before you start with the Walmart comparison.
 

FAST

Banned
Mar 12, 2004
10,064
1
0
Manufacturing was centered in Ontario,...the UNIFOOLS and Ont. Fiberals screwed that over,...anybody would give up on that combination,...!!!

Except of coarse Magna and Toyota and Honda,...then on the opposite end of economic reality,...you have the teachers unions,...Ontario is done as a manufacturing base.
......and all three companies you mentioned are all 100% NON-FUCKING UNION, does that maybe ring a bell in your head? Also may I add that they all pay wages and benefits comparable to GM, Ford etc, so keep that in mind before you start with the Walmart comparison.
Hey dude,...what the hell did you think I was saying,...???

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