Endangered Gorilla shot to protect young boy

james t kirk

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Aug 17, 2001
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Do you or don't you? Do you wear leather? Do you live in civilization? It's easy to have weird ideas of animals when you're so far detached from the reality. A lot of self proclaimed "animal lovers" are full of shit.
See my post above.

Wearing leather or eating meat does not give one the right to abuse and or kill animals at will.

See, there's this thing called the law. And the law isn't going to give you a pass to kill and or torture animals just because you eat meat.

Why not head on over to the Toronto zoo and start blasting the lions just for shits and giggles and tell them that you eat meat and wear leather shoes and ergo, you have the right to do whatever you want. See what happens.

I know it's a tough concept for you and few others around here.

The decision to kill the poor ape was based on the fact that there was a kid whose dumbass parents weren't supervising him properly and that kid got into the gorilla enclosure. Someone somewhere made the decision to blast the poor ape.

The issue for discussion on this thread was whether or not that was the correct decision.

I vote that it was not the correct decision. You and buddy vote that because you eat meat, that it was OK to kill the ape. Well, humans are just meat now too aren't they. There are people in this world who eat humans. So by your simple line of thinking, it's ok that they kill you since they eat human flesh.
 

cunning linguist

Well-known member
Oct 13, 2009
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See my post above.

Wearing leather or eating meat does not give one the right to abuse and or kill animals at will.

See, there's this thing called the law. And the law isn't going to give you a pass to kill and or torture animals just because you eat meat.

Why not head on over to the Toronto zoo and start blasting the lions just for shits and giggles and tell them that you eat meat and wear leather shoes and ergo, you have the right to do whatever you want. See what happens.

I know it's a tough concept for you and few others around here.

The decision to kill the poor ape was based on the fact that there was a kid whose dumbass parents weren't supervising him properly and that kid got into the gorilla enclosure. Someone somewhere made the decision to blast the poor ape.

The issue for discussion on this thread was whether or not that was the correct decision.

I vote that it was not the correct decision. You and buddy vote that because you eat meat, that it was OK to kill the ape. Well, humans are just meat now too aren't they. There are people in this world who eat humans. So by your simple line of thinking, it's ok that they kill you since they eat human flesh.
What's this "at will" bullshit? It didn't happen in this case. Someone didn't just walk into a zoo to blast a gorilla, it was killed in order to save a human life. What really bugs me about self proclaimed animal lovers, is how willfully ignorant or dishonest they are about their own role in the degradation of the natural habitats.

Retweeting a half-assed argument doesn't absolve you of the fact that your lifestyle is made possible by humankind's ability to manipulate it's environment to suit its needs. Civilization has a cost; your single detached house, used to a natural ecosystem. Your goods need road networks to travel to their destination as do you on your commute. Wanna judge from the comfort of an ivory tower? I'll tell you what it really looks like, it's a cave and you're foraging berries and shit for your personal sustinence.

The domestic dog took tens of thousands of years of selective breeding to create and some will still go feral or display aggressive behaviour from time-to-time. I know it's a tough concept for you to grasp, but a gorilla is not a fucking dog and Bambi was not a documentary. Wild animals aren't guilty or innocent, they're wild.

In conclusion, if you ever have a child run over in traffic, let's hope someone similarly tries to charge you for parental negligence.
 

cunning linguist

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Oct 13, 2009
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And no, it's not because I "eat meat" that I'm okay with the decision to shoot the gorilla. It's because when seconds count, you don't have the time or luxury to fuck around with something as unreliable as a tranquilizer. The eating meat thing was just calling you out on your self proclaimed "animal lover" bullshit.
 

stinkynuts

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Jan 4, 2005
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I am also disturbed by those who view animals as mere "property" that have no soul, no morals, or worth, other than to serve our needs. As a person whose had many types of pets growing up, I can attest to the fact that they are not soulless, and that they are capable of love and being loved.

First off, we humans are animals. As much as want to, we cannot distinguish ourselves as inherently different or better than any other animal. We are all relatives of a large family tree. Harambe's great, great, great... grandmother was your ancestor. Every form of life has a common ancestor and is related. No life is inherently worth more than another. Each living being has adapted throughout millions of years to suit their environment and survive the cruelty of mother nature. They should be respected and admired for their beauty and unique characteristics.

Humans have become arrogant and complacent, assured of their superiority above all other living things on Earth. They view their fellow creatures as inferior, as things that are merely here to satisfy our selfish needs. Need to get around? Ride on a horse. Need to have the file plowed? Hook up an ox to a plow and have it plow your field. Hungry? Slaughter these pigs. Bored? Have a tiger jump through some hoops. Animals are being used and treated no differently than a machine or any inanimate object to serve us. We don't view them as sentient beings with feelings. If we did, perhaps it would be much harder to justify our cruelty.

In nature, animals consuming each other has multiples purposes. First, it controls the population of each species. Secondly, it weeds out the weak and sick so that each generation is healthier and better suited to live in their environment. You can thank evolution and natural selection for all the features you have that allow you to be healthy and survive the world: an immune system that kills pathogens, eyes that allow you to see, ears that allow you to hear, etc.

However, the human consumption of animals has no purpose in this natural world other than to feed humans. We mass produce them in "factories" under cruel conditions. Hens are locked into tiny prisons and forced to produce as many eggs as possible, as quickly as possible. When they are no longer able to produce eggs efficiently, we have no use for them, and therefore are slaughtered. The same goes for cows, pigs, and other animals. Our greed and needs have no end, and we mercilessly raise and destroy billions of animals for our consumption, mistreating them in the process. Why? Because we can.

I think if one lived on a farm, raised an animal from birth, go to know it and had to slaughter it for food, they would appreciate it much more. They would feel a sense of gratitude that this animal has given up its life so that we can live. On the other hand, someone who buys a piece of chicken from the grocery store simply sees the chicken in a package in the refrigerator, and views it as a product just like any other. There is no sense of respect or sense of appreciation. I cannot stand it when food needlessly goes to waste.

We should dread the day we make contact with aliens if they are anything like us. For if we humans don't even view our closest relatives as worthy of being treated with respect, but instead lock them up for our amusement and shoot them instantly to save one of our own because the life of one of ours is unquestionably more valuable than that of the animal, how do you think an alien species who is far superior to us, and not related to us in any way will view us and treat us? Maybe how we treat a pig?

I think the world needs more compassion and empathy. Not only for other animals, but also for our fellow humans. It's no surprise we treat animals the way we do, when we treat our fellow human beings so poorly.


The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated.

-Mahatma Gandhi
 
Last edited:

lakeboy1

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Mar 27, 2014
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Experience.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/gorilla-trying-kill-protect-boy-8087981

Dr Emily Bethell, a senior lecturer in Primate Behaviour at Liverpool John Moores University, revealed that the gorilla’s body language showed he was NOT threatening the child.

She gave a commentary over the video which you can see above.
Dr Bethell said: “He was clearly being protective towards the boy.

“There were no signs of the gorilla being aggressive in the sense that he wanted to hurt the boy or anything like that.

“The biggest threat to the boy I would say is obviously when the gorilla moved and dragged him, that could have caused some harm, but the gorilla’s body language is definitely protective.

http://www.bustle.com/articles/1638...ncinnati-zoo-tragedy-their-opinions-are-mixed
Ian Redmond, chairman of The Gorilla Organization, said that there were other alternatives in addition to tranquilizing that the handlers could have tried:

When gorilla or other apes have things they shouldn't have, keepers will negotiate with them, bring food, their favorite treats, pineapple, or some kind of fruit that they don't know and negotiate with them. I don't know if that was tried or people thought there was too much danger but it does seem very unfortunate that a lethal shot was required.
Classic Lounge argument.Find a quote from someone that agrees with you and then state it as fact. Oh man, some chick no ones ever heard of in the UK thinks it was wrong.
 

fuji

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Now that I read this I agree that a tranquilizer should probably have been the first choice. Save the child and the animal. As much as the animal was the dangerous part of the situation it still didn't necessarily deserve to die.

The man in the video said that they train for this sort of thing. Which means those officials were trained to use guns instead of a tranquilizer. With either method, the gorilla needed to be dealt with quickly and efficiently.
There are SOOOO many problems with this, starting with it violates the fundamental tenet that human safety is always the highest priority. Putting a human life at risk to avoid loss of property is just WRONG.

This aside from the fact that it's Hollywood fantasy. Hit the gorilla with a dart and he is going to get MAD. Very mad. And he will stay mad for a minute or two before the drugs take effect. The last thing you want us an angry 400lb gorilla with a small child. Very bad.

Worse, the dart isn't nearly as accurate as a bullet. It can blow around in the wind , go where you don't expect it to. For example, it could hit the child. Hit a child with enough drugs to sedate a gorilla and that child is DEAD.
 

fuji

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No, it was an idiotic comparison.

In fact, it was a fucking stupid idiotic comparison.

Eating of meet does not give one the right to kill a creature at will just because some other poor creature was killed in the name of being part of the food chain.

Don't believe me?

Head up to Algonquin Park and blast a Moose out of season and without a tag and see what happens to you. When you get arrested, be sure to tell the police that you eat meat.

Your argument is childish at best.
The laws regulating hunting exist for the benefit of humans. We limit moose hunting to ensure that there will always be moose hunting.

It's resource management.
 

Jubee

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May 29, 2016
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And no, it's not because I "eat meat" that I'm okay with the decision to shoot the gorilla. It's because when seconds count, you don't have the time or luxury to fuck around with something as unreliable as a tranquilizer. The eating meat thing was just calling you out on your self proclaimed "animal lover" bullshit.
Seconds?

The gorilla had minutes and nothing happened. He was dragging the kid away from all the idiots hollering screaming from up above. He dragged the kid no differently than if it was one of his own.
 

Smallcock

Active member
Jun 5, 2009
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The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated.

-Mahatma Gandhi
With all due respect to Gandhi, I'm not so sure. The toughest Animals Rights laws began in Nazi Germany. It was considered cruel to boil lobsters so the practice was outlawed. In some ways, modern animal rights and vegetarianism were influenced by the animal protection policies of Nazi Germany.
 

Jubee

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May 29, 2016
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Classic Lounge argument.Find a quote from someone that agrees with you and then state it as fact. Oh man, some chick no ones ever heard of in the UK thinks it was wrong.
So their thoughts on the issue are invalid because I posted it? Are you serious?
 

cunning linguist

Well-known member
Oct 13, 2009
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Seconds?

The gorilla had minutes and nothing happened. He was dragging the kid away from all the idiots hollering screaming from up above. He dragged the kid no differently than if it was one of his own.
A child isn't a baby gorilla, but if it's not big deal to you by all means, lead by example and toss your kid in a gorilla pen and allow it to be "gently" dragged around.
 

Jubee

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May 29, 2016
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I am also disturbed by those who view animals as mere "property" that have no soul, no morals, or worth, other than to serve our needs. As a person whose had many types of pets growing up, I can attest to the fact that they are not soulless, and that they are capable of love and being loved.

First off, we humans are animals. As much as want to, we cannot distinguish ourselves as inherently different or better than any other animal. We are all relatives of a large family tree. Harambe's great, great, great... grandmother was your ancestor. Every form of life has a common ancestor and is related. No life is inherently worth more than another. Each living being has adapted throughout millions of years to suit their environment and survive the cruelty of mother nature. They should be respected and admired for their beauty and unique characteristics.

Humans have become arrogant and complacent, assured of their superiority above all other living things on Earth. They view their fellow creatures as inferior, as things that are merely here to satisfy our selfish needs. Need to get around? Ride on a horse. Need to have the file plowed? Hook up an ox to a plow and have it plow your field. Hungry? Slaughter these pigs. Bored? Have a tiger jump through some hoops. Animals are being used and treated no differently than a machine or any inanimate object to serve us. We don't view them as sentient beings with feelings. If we did, perhaps it would be much harder to justify our cruelty.

In nature, animals consuming each other has multiples purposes. First, it controls the population of each species. Secondly, it weeds out the weak and sick so that each generation is healthier and better suited to live in their environment. You can thank evolution and natural selection for all the features you have that allow you to be healthy and survive the world: an immune system that kills pathogens, eyes that allow you to see, ears that allow you to hear, etc.

However, the human consumption of animals has no purpose in this natural world other than to feed humans. We mass produce them in "factories" under cruel conditions. Hens are locked into tiny prisons and forced to produce as many eggs as possible, as quickly as possible. When they are no longer able to produce eggs efficiently, we have no use for them, and therefore are slaughtered. The same goes for cows, pigs, and other animals. Our greed and needs have no end, and we mercilessly raise and destroy billions of animals for our consumption, mistreating them in the process. Why? Because we can.

I think if one lived on a farm, raised an animal from birth, go to know it and had to slaughter it for food, they would appreciate it much more. They would feel a sense of gratitude that this animal has given up its life so that we can live. On the other hand, someone who buys a piece of chicken from the grocery store simply sees the chicken in a package in the refrigerator, and views it as a product just like any other. There is no sense of respect or sense of appreciation. I cannot stand it when food needlessly goes to waste.

We should dread the day we make contact with aliens if they are anything like us. For if we humans don't even view our closest relatives as worthy of being treated with respect, but instead lock them up for our amusement and shoot them instantly to save one of our own because the life of one of ours is unquestionably more valuable than that of the animal, how do you think an alien species who is far superior to us, and not related to us in any way will view us and treat us? Maybe how we treat a pig?

I think the world needs more compassion and empathy. Not only for other animals, but also for our fellow humans. It's no surprise we treat animals the way we do, when we treat our fellow human beings so poorly.


The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated.

-Mahatma Gandhi
 

IM469

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2012
11,149
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Eating of meet does not give one the right to kill a creature at will just because some other poor creature was killed in the name of being part of the food chain.
WTF are you talking about ? Your pointless dribble is all over the map. So is an out of season moose is one of " God's magnificent and beautiful creatures that shouldn't be destroyed by man " but in season it is one of God's uninspiring and ugly creatures that should be destroyed by man ? Is God's work subject to man's arbitrary designation of 'hunting season' - is that your reason to bring up moose ?

BTW: The gorilla was shot to save a boy - are you suggesting the boy was not one of God's magnificent and beautiful creatures that shouldn't be destroyed ? Shoot the boy, save God's magnificent and beautiful creatures ?
 

LeeHelm

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Apr 14, 2002
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WTF are you talking about ? Your pointless dribble is all over the map. So is an out of season moose is one of " God's magnificent and beautiful creatures that shouldn't be destroyed by man " but in season it is one of God's uninspiring and ugly creatures that should be destroyed by man ? Is God's work subject to man's arbitrary designation of 'hunting season' - is that your reason to bring up moose ?

BTW: The gorilla was shot to save a boy - are you suggesting the boy was not one of God's magnificent and beautiful creatures that shouldn't be destroyed ? Shoot the boy, save God's magnificent and beautiful creatures ?
Drivel not dribble.
 
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