Encryption and Society

[SchlongConery]

On the other hand, I don't remember any big or even small stink when the police asked Holly Jones' male neighbors to volunteer their DNA. Yeah, yeah, I known some members on this Board said they will never volunteer their DNA because it is not their job to help the police (and they worry about what happens to the DNA).

It is not because they don't want to help the police. It is because people are worried that the price are inept and or corrupt and may misuse or mistake the evidence and use it to convict someone who is innocent.

Seriously. If someone was raped in my neighbourhood, or for that matter on my street or in Toronto.... how many DNA tests are enough? What if the cops test 5,000 and still come up with nothing? But when you let them into your house they noticed something that they think is weird or something then start asking around at your work or your friends etc. THIS HAPPENS.

It is NOT my job to provide my genes to rule myself out as a suspect. And it is an improper use of DNA testing to use it as a ploy to flush out the perpetrator by the fact that only those who refuse to supply DNA are therefore suspects by virtue of their refusal.

Do you understand that logic?

 

[SkyRider]

BTW: Don't install Apple's new operating system. It is all fcuked up.

 

[SkyRider]

http://fortune.com/2016/03/28/ios-bug-apps-freeze-iphone/

Maybe it is fixed now, maybe not.

 

[|2 /-\ | /|/]

It is not because they don't want to help the police. It is because people are worried that the price are inept and or corrupt and may misuse or mistake the evidence and use it to convict someone who is innocent.

Seriously. If someone was raped in my neighbourhood, or for that matter on my street or in Toronto.... how many DNA tests are enough? What if the cops test 5,000 and still come up with nothing? But when you let them into your house they noticed something that they think is weird or something then start asking around at your work or your friends etc. THIS HAPPENS.

It is NOT my job to provide my genes to rule myself out as a suspect. And it is an improper use of DNA testing to use it as a ploy to flush out the perpetrator by the fact that only those who refuse to supply DNA are therefore suspects by virtue of their refusal.

Do you understand that logic?

Plus DNA evidence can be faked. You see an escort a GF a one night stand whatever, let's say she has ill intentions, how about the maid in the hotel room, want if there is a black market for sperm. You leave it, they leave it at a crime scene a mob hit whatever there could be 100 examples, the police get your DNA its in their system you volunteer to do it and bammm your flagged through their database and of you go just trying to be nice and do the neighborly thing. Try explaining that to the SO...

 

[|2 /-\ | /|/]

BTW: Don't install Apple's new operating system. It is all fcuked up.

Apple sucks so much don't even get me started. I am still bitter for dropping a fortune on their macbook pro only to crap out after 3 years of use. Back to PC Windows 10, however looks like other security concerns. its like the walls are closing in

 

[SkyRider]

Plus DNA evidence can be faked. You see an escort a GF a one night stand whatever, let's say she has ill intentions, how about the maid in the hotel room, want if there is a black market for sperm. You leave it, they leave it at a crime scene a mob hit whatever there could be 100 examples, the police get your DNA its in their system you volunteer to do it and bammm your flagged through their database and of you go just trying to be nice and do the neighborly thing. Try explaining that to the SO...

There was a novel and movie about fake evidence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presumed_Innocent_(film)

Heck, they even doctor videos (see Lena Heardsly's nude walk of shame) now. Yeah, so anything is possible.

Guys, be sure to take the condom with your sperms inside with you when you leave the lady. Lots of DNA in those sperms. Just kidding (maybe)!

 

[Occasionally]

I don't understand this whole encryption thing.

- FBI wants info
- FBI can't access it due to encryption
- Apple doesn't want to help them decrypt it as they claim it allows FBI to do that to every phone

So why doesn't Apple just decrypt that single phone for them so they can do their investigation?

Shouldn't Apple be liable to help law enforcement? It's like a warrant. But instead of police coming in to examine a house, they want to examine the bits and bites in a phone.

If the police suspect important info is a huge steel safe, and can't break into it. Isn't it normal for the safe company to open it for them? Or the safe company has a legal option to decline?

 

[Occasionally]

What I find amusing is how some people are so upset by government collecting data but allow private companies to endlessly mine their data.

I never understood this either.

Government is suspected of keeping an eye on people. OH NOES! OMG! The government may use it against me and try to turn the country into an oppressive state. As if the government really cares about a pic of Uncle Bob getting drunk at a party.

Private company issues terms and agreements in print, right in your face to read. Yet people just sign away or click that check box on a PC program and allow them to whatever they want..... marketing, cold calls, junk mail, spamming inboxes, etc.... And for all the uproar, every financial company is linked up to one another in some kind of master database all banks, insurance and credit card companies all join together. That's why when you try to get a mortgage, every bank knows what credit card balances you have, outstanding mortgages with other companies, student loans, car loans etc.... Even though they all come from different financial institutions.

Yet nobody cares.

If anything, this info should be the last thing you want floating around. If you are applying for loans, why would you want them knowing what other financial deals you have elsewhere. Conflict of interest.

 

[explorerzip]

There seems to be a lot of paranoia on this thread. Governments and businesses have always been collecting information: credit information, bank statements, birth certificates, licenses, social insurance number, employment records, taxes etc. I would agree that this information can be misused i.e. someone mentioned getting put on a no-fly list either intentionally or not. I also don't find that it's a conflict of interest for financial institutions sharing information. Wouldn't you want to know if someone you were going to lend money has a poor record of paying their debts?

As for sites like Facebook, Linkedin, Amazon, Workopolis, etc. 'knowing' your employment, personal and shopping history; you enter that information on your own. Those sites can't just create a profile on your out of thin air. If you're concerned about all that information being kept, don't use those sites. As for businesses that want your personal info, just refuse to give it or use fake information. Whenever a business ask for my personal info, I always give them my long disconnected land line phone number. They're more than welcome to sell that number to the air duct cleaning companies.

 

[SkyRider]

This is too delicious. Apparently, Tim Cook and his Apple peons are dying to find out how the FBI cracked their precious iPhone and who is the unnamed third party. This is too much fun.

I actually thought that the FBI should have remained silent. I mean we didn't tell the Nazis we cracked their Enigma code in WW II.

 

[|2 /-\ | /|/]

This is too delicious. Apparently, Tim Cook and his Apple peons are dying to find out how the FBI cracked their precious iPhone and who is the unnamed third party. This is too much fun.

I actually thought that the FBI should have remained silent. I mean we didn't tell the Nazis we cracked their Enigma code in WW II.

No not really. Geohot, comex, muscle nerd, and p0sixninja can do this in their sleep.

 

[basketcase]

Governments have a much more pervasive impact on your life. It is not the collection of information itself that is a concern, but what they will DO with it.
....

That's the point. I trust an elected government far more than some corporate entity interested purely in profit.

 

[|2 /-\ | /|/]

This is too delicious. Apparently, Tim Cook and his Apple peons are dying to find out how the FBI cracked their precious iPhone and who is the unnamed third party. This is too much fun.

I actually thought that the FBI should have remained silent. I mean we didn't tell the Nazis we cracked their Enigma code in WW II.

Here is some technical info for your consideration via musclenerd

"@marcan42: Untangling iOS PIN code security: a look at the Apple vs. FBI saga, from a technical perspective. https://marcan.st/2016/03/untangling-ios-pin-code-security/"

 

[fuji]

That's the point. I trust an elected government far more than some corporate entity interested purely in profit.

Why not use their fear of losing elections to prevent the collection/aggregation of the data in the first place?

 

[TeeJay]

I don't understand this whole encryption thing.

- FBI wants info
- FBI can't access it due to encryption
- Apple doesn't want to help them decrypt it as they claim it allows FBI to do that to every phone

So why doesn't Apple just decrypt that single phone for them so they can do their investigation?

You missed law 101
It breaks evidentiary chain if Apple works on the phone

Eg if I commit a crime, FBI nabs me cell phone
FBI then gives that phone to Apple tech to unlock
Once it goes to trial its a very simple argument that since evidence not in police possession that it is no longer admissible in court

 

[basketcase]

Why not use their fear of losing elections to prevent the collection/aggregation of the data in the first place?

Why not let paranoid fear of the government prevent you from living your life in the first place?

 

[basketcase]

You missed law 101
It breaks evidentiary chain if Apple works on the phone

Eg if I commit a crime, FBI nabs me cell phone
FBI then gives that phone to Apple tech to unlock
Once it goes to trial its a very simple argument that since evidence not in police possession that it is no longer admissible in court

That logic doesn't apply when police agencies send DNA out to be tested.

 

[fuji]

Why not let paranoid fear of the government prevent you from living your life in the first place?

Because in a democracy I can live my life AND vote to limit the power of government. It's only when you lose democracy that you have to make hard choices between living and being free.

 

[TeeJay]

That logic doesn't apply when police agencies send DNA out to be tested.

Of course it does
Why do you think they need to be certified
You can't just send it anywhere to be tested, only approved test facilities
(Which in first scenario, Apple is certainly not)

 

[basketcase]

Of course it does
Why do you think they need to be certified
You can't just send it anywhere to be tested, only approved test facilities
(Which in first scenario, Apple is certainly not)

So if DNA being sent to some external bio lab can be certified, why couldn't a device being sent to a external tech lab?