Employee Trouble.....Need help.
- Thread starter Jenesis
- Start date
Unless you intend to let someone go with cause (not easy), to avoid severance/termination pay, there is no need to document anything.
Employers are free to let anybody (non-union) go at any time. They don`t need to prove that they don`t need you or your work sucks.
It is only a wrongful dismissal if they don`t pay the required severance.
Unless it is otherwise spelled out in an employment contract, employees can treat a layoff as a constructive dismissal.
Employers are free to let anybody (non-union) go at any time. They don`t need to prove that they don`t need you or your work sucks.
It is only a wrongful dismissal if they don`t pay the required severance.
Unless it is otherwise spelled out in an employment contract, employees can treat a layoff as a constructive dismissal.
Last edited:
Give the employee a deadline a couple of days prior to when you need something done, and when the work is finished two days late, it will be on time.
bingo
documentation is needed to cover yourself & lots of it. If you cant meet in person then over Zoom & record that too. Set clear expectations & cross train others to learn this person's work. Its never good if something thinks they are irreplaceable..... set clear deadlines with consequences.
good luck
You mentioned you'd like to keep your receptionist but don't have a position for them.
Is it possible for the receptionist to be trained by the deadline missing employee to cover that niche?
Or have them work as a small team?
Keeps the receptionist employed and learning new skills and keeps the other person more accountable on a regular basis as they would have to be in frequent contact with the receptionist.
Is it possible for the receptionist to be trained by the deadline missing employee to cover that niche?
Or have them work as a small team?
Keeps the receptionist employed and learning new skills and keeps the other person more accountable on a regular basis as they would have to be in frequent contact with the receptionist.
Documentation is needed when you terminate for cause or there is a potential human rights violation that could, note could, be at stake
otherwise any termination will boil down to how much you are willing to pay to make them go away.
I'm going to assume you don't do annual performance reviews, so there is no documentation trail.
Two choices here.
First Choice = build a case against this person and who knows, maybe they will smarten up.
Step 1. You have a verbal conversation with them, then send them a memo outlining your discussion and give them an opportunity to respond in writing. Document goes in their file. No need for them to sign it. Just email it to them.
If no improvement, move to Step 2
Step 2 = Meet with them face to face. You come into that meeting prepared with a written documentation of their shortfalls and your expectations AND (this is important), you put them on a Performance Improvement Plan. (There will be examples on line). Typically, you set out a series of goals, deadlines, mile posts, etc and then at that time, you agree to a date for followup. Best to have the person sign the performance Improvement plan and it goes into their file and you email them a copy.
Step 3 = you monitor them to ensure that they are meeting their goals and hope they smarten up.
Step 4, if they continue to dog fuck, you terminate them.
I would recommend you reach out to any number of HR professional consultants if there is big money on the line. But this is how we do it.
Second Choice = Cut to the chase and fire them right now and follow the law which basically states that they get 1 week's pay in lieu of notice (severance) for every year's service they worked for you. They've worked for you for 5 years, you pay them 5 weeks salary and bye bye. Of course, everything is documented, signed and agreed upon prior to issuing any cheque. Again, I recommend you hire an HR consultant to assist you with the verbiage of the letter of termination. But be advised, often long term employees will not accept a crappy 1 week's severance per year of employment. (I would not.) Usually, to get rid of a senior long term professional, we will pay 1 month's salary for every year of employment. A smart employee will engage a labor lawyer (I would. I would never sign anything my employer put in front of me without hiring a lawyer.) You don't mention your line of work, which is fine, but often times employers will decide that they just can't work with a person any more and will pay to get rid of them. Keep in mind that the law is slanted in favour of the employee. If you get taken to the labour board, you'll probably lose. Also, note that there are many variables that go into calculating any "fair" severance. Such as number of years service, age, ease for which that person can find new similar paying employment, if you recruited them from a previous job where they had worked for 20 years (get ready for that if that's the case, you could have to pay for the 20 years in your severance).
Most important when terminating anyone.......NEVER DO IT ALONE. Always have another person with you. You don't want to be accused of anything improper. ("She grabbed my ass.") . Better still, record the conversation. No need to tell the person you're recording the conversation. (You still need a witness though.) Make it fast, if they ask you why they are being terminated, don't answer that. Don't drag it out. Should be out the door in 2 minutes. It's not a discussion, it's a termination. I usually will just start with have a seat, Joe, we've decided to terminate your employment effect immediately. I then read them the term of their severance and wish them well. If they persist, just say, "it's not a good fit" and leave it at that.
Out the door.
As an aside, this is often the result of people "working from home" Let's face it, a great many employees need to overseen and you can't do that if you're working at home. At home there are just too many distractions. social media, TV, Fridge, sofa, have a nap, kids, do a load of laundry, put a load in the dishwasher, you name it. All well and good if the guy is going to plug away for 10 or 12 hours a day. But most people don't want to work more than 7 hours a day anyway and no-one is productive 100 percent of their working hours anyway.
Oh, and at the moment they are being terminated, you have your IT guy cutting them off from the network, their email, etc. You don't want them fucking you up that way. Also, retrieve any corporate property - keys, cell phone, credit card, computer, etc. If they don't have it with them, tell them that they don't get their severance check till they return it. You can hire a courier to go to their place and pick up stuff like that. Don't do it yourself.
Two choices here.
First Choice = build a case against this person and who knows, maybe they will smarten up.
Step 1. You have a verbal conversation with them, then send them a memo outlining your discussion and give them an opportunity to respond in writing. Document goes in their file. No need for them to sign it. Just email it to them.
If no improvement, move to Step 2
Step 2 = Meet with them face to face. You come into that meeting prepared with a written documentation of their shortfalls and your expectations AND (this is important), you put them on a Performance Improvement Plan. (There will be examples on line). Typically, you set out a series of goals, deadlines, mile posts, etc and then at that time, you agree to a date for followup. Best to have the person sign the performance Improvement plan and it goes into their file and you email them a copy.
Step 3 = you monitor them to ensure that they are meeting their goals and hope they smarten up.
Step 4, if they continue to dog fuck, you terminate them.
I would recommend you reach out to any number of HR professional consultants if there is big money on the line. But this is how we do it.
Second Choice = Cut to the chase and fire them right now and follow the law which basically states that they get 1 week's pay in lieu of notice (severance) for every year's service they worked for you. They've worked for you for 5 years, you pay them 5 weeks salary and bye bye. Of course, everything is documented, signed and agreed upon prior to issuing any cheque. Again, I recommend you hire an HR consultant to assist you with the verbiage of the letter of termination. But be advised, often long term employees will not accept a crappy 1 week's severance per year of employment. (I would not.) Usually, to get rid of a senior long term professional, we will pay 1 month's salary for every year of employment. A smart employee will engage a labor lawyer (I would. I would never sign anything my employer put in front of me without hiring a lawyer.) You don't mention your line of work, which is fine, but often times employers will decide that they just can't work with a person any more and will pay to get rid of them. Keep in mind that the law is slanted in favour of the employee. If you get taken to the labour board, you'll probably lose. Also, note that there are many variables that go into calculating any "fair" severance. Such as number of years service, age, ease for which that person can find new similar paying employment, if you recruited them from a previous job where they had worked for 20 years (get ready for that if that's the case, you could have to pay for the 20 years in your severance).
Most important when terminating anyone.......NEVER DO IT ALONE. Always have another person with you. You don't want to be accused of anything improper. ("She grabbed my ass.") . Better still, record the conversation. No need to tell the person you're recording the conversation. (You still need a witness though.) Make it fast, if they ask you why they are being terminated, don't answer that. Don't drag it out. Should be out the door in 2 minutes. It's not a discussion, it's a termination. I usually will just start with have a seat, Joe, we've decided to terminate your employment effect immediately. I then read them the term of their severance and wish them well. If they persist, just say, "it's not a good fit" and leave it at that.
Out the door.
As an aside, this is often the result of people "working from home" Let's face it, a great many employees need to overseen and you can't do that if you're working at home. At home there are just too many distractions. social media, TV, Fridge, sofa, have a nap, kids, do a load of laundry, put a load in the dishwasher, you name it. All well and good if the guy is going to plug away for 10 or 12 hours a day. But most people don't want to work more than 7 hours a day anyway and no-one is productive 100 percent of their working hours anyway.
Oh, and at the moment they are being terminated, you have your IT guy cutting them off from the network, their email, etc. You don't want them fucking you up that way. Also, retrieve any corporate property - keys, cell phone, credit card, computer, etc. If they don't have it with them, tell them that they don't get their severance check till they return it. You can hire a courier to go to their place and pick up stuff like that. Don't do it yourself.
Last edited:
Setup your office like this and say:
YOU BETTER IMPROVE OR ELSE
YOU BETTER IMPROVE OR ELSE
A month is not enough, and there needs to be some other history, so that noting all the employees deficiencies and there being a lack of improvement despite talking about the issues with the employee starts to show grounds for dismissal.
What if you just blame COVID and lay them off especially as you say they occupy a niche part of your business. Tens of thousands of people have been laid off.
LJ
Layoff implies that the person will be called back and return to work. Usually benefits and even partial salaries (depends) are paid during the period the person is laid off.
And if you don't recall them after a certain amount of time, then you need to pay them a full severance.
"Laying off" is not a "get out paying severance card".
Link:
I think the OP is looking for a way to fire the person without having to pay a severance. I.e. possible if the employee is Terminated for Cause. Very tricky to prove, but not impossible. Depends on whether the employee in question is smart and knows their rights under the Employment Standards Act or not, or simply figures, "oh well, time to move on".
Often, employers will fire a person for cause, but still pay him a small severance just to (hopefully) shut him the fuck up and go away quietly.
Last edited:
This is such bad advice. Always document as much as possible when it comes to HR. I've let employees go with seemingly no possible reason for them contest the reason, and have had them turn around and file a lawsuit for wrongful dismissal/ discrimination, and the main thing that saved me was how documented the process was. And yes, they were paid the appropriate severance and then some. Some people just see possible extra $ and go for it.
