Elon musk calls Justin Trudeau an insufferable tool

[Skoob]

Yeah because it is one of very few EVs in the market.
The big ones like Ford are infact shifting focus away from EVs. That is the opposite of "transformative".
EVs themselves are a minority of the automotive market.
Hence why Tesla/Musk are not transformative.
Unlike iPhones and Personal Computers which made smartphones and personal computers ubiquitous and changed culture and behaviour.
And I did not say Apple made cellphones transformative. I said Apple made smartphones that revolutionized communication.
You are grasping and you are yet to provide proof for your statement that the development of the iPhone started in 1976.
You are grasping and you are yet to provide any proof that Tesla has transformed the automotive space, culture and consumer behaviours.
You keep doing our double twisting double backflip and you keep landing on your face.

You spew misinformation in every post.
"Very few EVs on the market"? Really? https://www.motortrend.com/features/electric-car-companies-make-electric-cars/

Ford is not shifting focus away from EVs. They are discontinuing 3-row SUV EV's due to the high cost. More misinformation from you.
Canada has set 2035 (only 10 years from now) to only have new vehicles be zero-emissions. Is that not transformative?

I sure sign that someone is losing an argument is when they try to peddle misinformation to backup their claims.
And that's what you keep doing.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

You spew misinformation in every post.
"Very few EVs on the market"? Really? https://www.motortrend.com/features/electric-car-companies-make-electric-cars/

Ford is not shifting focus away from EVs. They are discontinuing 3-row SUV EV's due to the high cost. More misinformation from you.
Canada has set 2035 (only 10 years from now) to only have new vehicles be zero-emissions. Is that not transformative?

I sure sign that someone is losing an argument is when they try to peddle misinformation to backup their claims.
And that's what you keep doing.

Yeah those count as "very few" compared to the number of gasoline and diesel vehicles in production.
All those EVs put together still make up a minority of the market.
And none of those EVs were developed because of Tesla.
EVs predated Teslas and it was natural transition.
Nice try at accusing me of misinformation while failing to answer the question - "Show proof that iPhone development started in 1976".
As I said you are grasping.
You have still not been able to answer the question above or prove that Tesla has transformed anything at all.
Instead you are keeping up with your mental gymnastics.

 

[basketcase]

Why do you need a car that can go 400km for city use? Tesla batteries will lose about 15% of their range after 200K miles. That is pretty damn good. Do you expect a car engine to be in perfect shape after 200K miles? Its old news, car batteries will outlast the car in most cases. Many teslas in auto trader with very hgh miles.

I know it's complex but in the city, there would be my home charging station as well as numerous other locations where I can charge. With rural canada, I wouldn't have those options, especially with the impacts of cold temperature on battery life. As it is, tesla estimates their batteries good for about 1500 charging cycles in a moderate climate. Anyone with knowledge of batteries also knows that the capacity of batteries decreases. Under perfect conditions and with owners who manage to use most of the charge before plugging it back in, that might give them 10 - 15 years. Under regular life conditions and in Canadian weather, you can cut that significantly.

And again, my opinion is based on my work which puts me in contact with the people actually doing the work on EVs. If you don't believe that, you could look at the articles I posted about car companies scaling back EV manufacture.

I am not against EVs but the current implementation and uptake does not make for the breakthrough we were all hoping a few years ago.

 

[Skoob]

Yeah those count as "very few" compared to the number of gasoline and diesel vehicles in production.
All those EVs put together still make up a minority of the market.
And none of those EVs were developed because of Tesla.
EVs predated Teslas and it was natural transition.
Nice try at accusing me of misinformation while failing to answer the question - "Show proof that iPhone development started in 1976".
As I said you are grasping.
You have still not been able to answer the question above or prove that Tesla has transformed anything at all.
Instead you are keeping up with your mental gymnastics.

"minority of the market" like Apple computers are? (15%).
iPhone has less than 30% market share vs Android worldwide.
You do know that other automakers have adopted Tesla's patents (Toyota, Ford, etc)?

Proof that you are just making up alternative facts and trying to peddle misinformation.

The better question is why?

Is your biased hatred for Musk so important to you that it makes you invent misleading information?

 

[basketcase]

The first iPhone...the product you have kept using as an example as being "transformative", was released in 2007. 30+ years after Apple was founded.
Macintosh only held about 6% of the home PC market in 1984. Is that your example of a revolutionary product?
...

Yes, the Mac was transformative. It created the idea of the all in one computer purchase for home use.
And it's pretty idiotic to argue that the smart phone wasn't transformative. Yes, there were other companies and predecessors but considering you are arguing that even though Tesla was far from the first useable EV, being a #1 seller defines them as transformative, you can't reasonably argue the opposite with the iPhone.

And Musk has had some failures. Solar City and the Hyperloop?

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

"minority of the market" like Apple computers are? (15%).

Apple Computers are one of many personal computers.
I said Apple revolutionized personal computing.
I said Apple revolutionized telecommunications.
I did not say Apple has the majority market share in either of those sectors. (which may or may not be true).
Solely having majority market share is not transformative and means nothing.
You cannot even grasp what "transformative" means.
Transformative means, it changes people's lives, behaviours, ways of working and culture.
Having majority market share means nothing. There could be a total of 10 units sold and a company could sell 5 of them.
Tesla has not even accomplished either of those things.
They haven't transformed behaviours and culture.
BYD is the largest seller of EVs in the world.
BYD by the way was formed before Tesla and started researching EVs before Tesla did and now they are the largest EV sellers.
Even then I wouldn't consider them transformative and Tesla falls below them.
So there you go.
As I said your mental gymnastics will only take you so far.
You are not making any sense and you are not able to defend Elon or even provide proof for statements that iPhone development started in 1976.
Just admit Elon is a con and has your support because both you and him are MAGA and move on.

 

[Skoob]

Yes, the Mac was transformative. It created the idea of the all in one computer purchase for home use.
And it's pretty idiotic to argue that the smart phone wasn't transformative. Yes, there were other companies and predecessors but considering you are arguing that even though Tesla was far from the first useable EV, being a #1 seller defines them as transformative, you can't reasonably argue the opposite with the iPhone.

And Musk has had some failures. Solar City and the Hyperloop?

If Tesla was "far from the first useable EV" tell us what you mean by "useable? What other EV became widely available to consumers and inspired other companies to do the same (such as Toyota and Ford to name a couple)?

You want to throw failures into this discussion? Do you have any idea of the failures Apple and Microsoft went through?

"It created the idea"...want to list all of Musk's endeavors that fall into the same category?

The iPhone was not transformative...it was somewhat popular.
Just like EV's...they are becoming more popular everyday.

Both products were not the first and not the last.

 

[benstt]

If Tesla was "far from the first useable EV" tell us what you mean by "useable? What other EV became widely available to consumers and inspired other companies to do the same (such as Toyota and Ford to name a couple)?

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/advice/nissan-leaf-vs-tesla-model-3

The Nissan Leaf was the first mass-market electric car ever sold, with the first generation hitting the market for 2011. The Tesla Model 3 came out six years later, with its first models ending up in buyers' hands in 2017. Since its release, the Model 3 has become a favorite of EV buyers, although the Leaf is now in its second generation and has come a long way since its initial 73-mile-range model.

 

[Skoob]

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/advice/nissan-leaf-vs-tesla-model-3

The Nissan Leaf was the first mass-market electric car ever sold, with the first generation hitting the market for 2011. The Tesla Model 3 came out six years later, with its first models ending up in buyers' hands in 2017. Since its release, the Model 3 has become a favorite of EV buyers, although the Leaf is now in its second generation and has come a long way since its initial 73-mile-range model.

Tesla Roadster hit the market in 2008.

 

[benstt]

Tesla Roadster hit the market in 2008.

And GM's EV1 was about 10 years before the roadster and was an inspiration for it. None of these earlier full EVs had significant market penetration until the Leaf. (There were about 2500 roadsters made.)

Note that Car and Driver lists the California mandate as the push for EVs.

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g43480930/history-of-electric-cars/

In response to a 1996 California mandate that automakers sell a small percentage of zero-emission vehicles (only electric cars met the standard), General Motors didn’t go down the Electrovair/Electrovette trail of converting an existing model. While other automakers did just that, creating the likes of the Toyota RAV4 EV, GM shot for the moon, applying all the technology it could bring to bear with the aim of establishing industry leadership with its Impact concept car.

The production version, the GM EV1, had all the latest tech save for its reliance on lead-acid batteries. This kept costs within reason after GM splurged on alloy this and magnesium that, an induction-charging system, and seriously advanced electronics to manage the efficient AC motor. A lot went into the inverter, which managed changing DC battery power to AC for the motor to use and AC back to DC to recharge the batteries in regeneration mode.

 

[Skoob]

And GM's EV1 was about 10 years before the roadster and was an inspiration for it. None of these earlier full EVs had significant market penetration until the Leaf. (There were about 2500 roadsters made.)

Note that Car and Driver lists the California mandate as the push for EVs.

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g43480930/history-of-electric-cars/

In response to a 1996 California mandate that automakers sell a small percentage of zero-emission vehicles (only electric cars met the standard), General Motors didn’t go down the Electrovair/Electrovette trail of converting an existing model. While other automakers did just that, creating the likes of the Toyota RAV4 EV, GM shot for the moon, applying all the technology it could bring to bear with the aim of establishing industry leadership with its Impact concept car.

The production version, the GM EV1, had all the latest tech save for its reliance on lead-acid batteries. This kept costs within reason after GM splurged on alloy this and magnesium that, an induction-charging system, and seriously advanced electronics to manage the efficient AC motor. A lot went into the inverter, which managed changing DC battery power to AC for the motor to use and AC back to DC to recharge the batteries in regeneration mode.

The EV1 was only available in a few states, and only for lease. Approx 800 were leased.

The point here is that "transformation" and "revolution" come about after years of trial/error and by many people/companies, each one building on prior ideas and technology. Each one wouldn't exist without the previous one having existed.
The ones that evolve the previous ideas the best are usually the ones that last.

As far as EV's, today Tesla leads the pack.

 

[basketcase]

If Tesla was "far from the first useable EV" tell us what you mean by "useable? ...

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g43480930/history-of-electric-cars/

It's amazing that you think a car following 100 year pattern of development is transformative but a touch screen computer in your hand isn't.

Tesla and Apple both exploded the existing market by applying great marketing to a product that were just a step up from what existed already.