Elon musk calls Justin Trudeau an insufferable tool

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

All Spacex launchers have decent payload and of course Starship is the most powerful rocket in history. Cost per launch is meaningless if your payload is small. India has 1 such rocket where the payload is only 3-500 kg. I am not saying its useless, but it drives the cost per launch down and offers much less utility per launch. You may call EVs not transfromative, but as someone that has been able to receive free energy for driving, I will tell you its quite mind blowing. Plus the reduced polluton even when I get into a late model car you get that whiff of fuel when you start a cold car. After driving an EV you really notice it. Starlink intenet into planes and ships at very low cost compared to older tech, plus rural areas also have access to the internet now and this will enable all kinds of transfromative tehc like remote surgury for example

SpaceX:
Starship is still not operational.
Cost per launch becomes the most important factor if your payload is small.
Imagine putting a 500Kg satellite on a vehicle that can carry 10,000Kg.
You are paying for fuel and all that mass, but your payload is small.
India has their medium lift rocket. What they dont have is heavy lift rockets.
They generally operate at much lower costs than spacex do.
It is a matter of time when they get their heavy lift and super heavy lift rockets, and make them reusable.
But generally speaking, for the medium lift category, India operates at half the cost of SpaceX.
Tesla
You may be a EV owner and fan.
I am not.
Opinions differ on it.
But many dont care or cannot afford.
The definition of something transformative is for it to change behaviours.
Tesla hasn't.
Starlink
Countries like China and India have been doing this forever.
Their communication satellites provide education and medical help to doctors in rural regions.
As for internet, there are many satellite internet providers, not just Starlink.
Again nothing truly transformative.
All these are successful businesses.
Not transformative in any way though.

 

[basketcase]

thats all old news. EVs will likly out last gas powered cars. There are many Teslas with very high miles out there still running ust fine. The premium for EVs is very low now and shrinking. Used EVs are super cheap.

No it's current news. Anyone connected with the industry has been aware for the past 2 years that consumer uptake is lagging expectations by a lot. Government rebates and investment in infrastructure could help but the engineering side still has significant difficulties with batteries that need to be worked out.


p.s. Used EVs are cheep because demand is low. If I wanted a second vehicle explicitly for city use, I'd consider an EV but I sure as hell would lease it so I'm not the one stuck with battery replacement.

 

[Skoob]

But you are not answering the question.
What have Tesla and SpaceX revolutionized?
If a person is buying a car Tesla is just one of many options today.
Infact Teslas are unaffordable for most people and there is always the anxiety with charging infrastructure.
So they have neither taken over the market nor changed behaviours.
Same with SpaceX.
Reusable rockets have existed for ever and as I mentioned the Indian space agency does it for half the cost of SpaceX without reusable rockets.
You are again referring to a successful business with a little innovation thrown in.
It is not a transformative in any way.

Then no one you mentioned in comparison to Musk was "transformative" by your definition. They all used technology that already existed.
You then use the excuse that technology moves much faster now than it used to so what are you trying to argue exactly?

You agree that Musk is a great businessman and completely ignore his involvement in making good decisions about directing where technology is going.

He's not a con. He's a modern genius that you can't seem to wrap your mind around because you are stuck in the past.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

Then no one you mentioned in comparison to Musk was "transformative" by your definition.

Okay, long post.
By my definition only Elon has not been transformative in comparison.
Technology:
Technology is built on top of existing technology and research, so this isn't anything new.
Yes, technology development is exponential. We are able to develop tech faster and technology becomes obsolete faster today than it did 40 years ago.
So the timelines that applied to Gates and Jobs do not apply to Elon.
Heck the others held in comparison may have even used existing technology and improved upon it, but they did transform lives unlike Elon.
Examples:
Gates and Jobs transformed personal computing in less than a decade, even though as you pointed out there was a personal computer invented already, but never took off.
Jobs transformed communication as we know it today even though smartphones existed before the iPhone, but never took off.
Zuckerberg transformed how we connect with people even though there were previous rudimentary social media.
Bezos transformed how we shop, how customer service is provided etc even though there may have been other online retail marketplaces.
The google guys transformed how we search for information even though there were search engines such as Ask Jeeves etc before them.
Conclusion
In each case of my examples, you can see that you can argue that these guys weren't "first to market".
You can see they were successful businessmen.
However you can also agree, that they completely transformed our behaviours, lives, approach to things, culture and so on.
Elon has had 20 years with Tesla and SpaceX.
What exactly has he transformed?
There were EVs before, so he was not first to market. There were rockets before so he was not first to market there either.
Tesla is just 1 of many cars today.
SpaceX is one of many commercial space launch companies today.
He runs successful businesses in modern times where tech development is much faster.
Yet he has not been able to accomplish transformation as much as the others.
This is undeniable and these are just facts.
He is no tech genius. He is no engineer. He is no product architect.
He is an intelligent investor who runs successful businesses.
His con is in making "visionary and transformative claims" often times bordering on science fiction and then not delivering on them. An example of this is Tesla FSD that he has been touting about for the last however many years.

 

[Skoob]

Okay, long post.
By my definition only Elon has not been transformative in comparison.
Technology:
Technology is built on top of existing technology and research, so this isn't anything new.
Yes, technology development is exponential. We are able to develop tech faster and technology becomes obsolete faster today than it did 40 years ago.
So the timelines that applied to Gates and Jobs do not apply to Elon.
Heck the others held in comparison may have even used existing technology and improved upon it, but they did transform lives unlike Elon.
Examples:
Gates and Jobs transformed personal computing in less than a decade, even though as you pointed out there was a personal computer invented already, but never took off.
Jobs transformed communication as we know it today even though smartphones existed before the iPhone, but never took off.
Zuckerberg transformed how we connect with people even though there were previous rudimentary social media.
Bezos transformed how we shop, how customer service is provided etc even though there may have been other online retail marketplaces.
The google guys transformed how we search for information even though there were search engines such as Ask Jeeves etc before them.
Conclusion
In each case of my examples, you can see that you can argue that these guys weren't "first to market".
You can see they were successful businessmen.
However you can also agree, that they completely transformed our behaviours, lives, approach to things, culture and so on.
Elon has had 20 years with Tesla and SpaceX.
What exactly has he transformed?
There were EVs before, so he was not first to market. There were rockets before so he was not fist to market there either.
Tesla is just 1 of many cars today.
SpaceX is one of many commercial space launch companies today.
He runs successful businesses in modern times where tech development is much faster.
Yet he has not been able to accomplish transformation as much as the others.
This is undeniable and these are just facts.
He is no tech genius. He is no engineer. He is no product architect.
He is an intelligent investor who runs successful businesses.
His con is in making "visionary and transformative claims" often times bordering on science fiction and then not delivering on them. An example of this is Tesla FSD that he has been touting about for the last however many years.

Do you think other car manufacturers would have escalated their development of EV's if it wasn't for Tesla?

You tried to compare him to Gates and Jobs and failed because the only thing they have that Musk doesn't is longer history and you are leveraging hindsight.
They were not engineers. They were not product architects. You criticized Musk for not being those things until I enlightened you about the others. So you dropped that argument.

Your excuse that tech development is much faster now doesn't hold water because then everyone would be able to do what he has done so far. In fact I would argue that people like Musk are more challenged coming up with things people want due to the flood of technology out there to compete with.

Your argument first started by saying the others were different but I had to enlighten you that they adopted others' ideas as well. So you dropped that argument quickly.

You keep bouncing around when I prove you are mistaken.

So just say you don't like him because he supports Trump or you are jealous (or both) and quit trying to make it about anything else. It's not working for you.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

Do you think other car manufacturers would have escalated their development of EV's if it wasn't for Tesla?

You tried to compare him to Gates and Jobs and failed because the only thing they have that Musk doesn't is longer history and you are leveraging hindsight.
They were not engineers. They were not product architects. You criticized Musk for not being those things until I enlightened you about the others. So you dropped that argument.

Your excuse that tech development is much faster now doesn't hold water because then everyone would be able to do what he has done so far. In fact I would argue that people like Musk are more challenged coming up with things people want due to the flood of technology out there to compete with.

Yes they would have.
EVs existed before Tesla and others infact make better EVs than Tesla today.
And Gates and Jobs may have started their companies earlier.
But they accomplished changing people's lives just a few years after the launch of their products.
Also I did not drop the argument that Elon is a con because he claims to be an engineer at all. It is right there in the post you have responded to. You are not reading.
So nice try pretending they only changed lives 40 years hence.
On the other hand it has been almost 20 years since the roadster rolled out and till date EVs are still a minority.
Yes tech development is faster today.
And yes everyone else is doing what Tesla is doing today as well.
Infact they are doing it just as, if not better than Tesla.
Throughout your argument you are unable to show any examples at all about how Elon has accomplished anything that counts as truly transformative.
All you could come up with are excuses for Elon.

 

[nottyboi]

No it's current news. Anyone connected with the industry has been aware for the past 2 years that consumer uptake is lagging expectations by a lot. Government rebates and investment in infrastructure could help but the engineering side still has significant difficulties with batteries that need to be worked out.


p.s. Used EVs are cheep because demand is low. If I wanted a second vehicle explicitly for city use, I'd consider an EV but I sure as hell would lease it so I'm not the one stuck with battery replacement.

Why do you need a car that can go 400km for city use? Tesla batteries will lose about 15% of their range after 200K miles. That is pretty damn good. Do you expect a car engine to be in perfect shape after 200K miles? Its old news, car batteries will outlast the car in most cases. Many teslas in auto trader with very hgh miles.

 

[Skoob]

Yes they would have.
EVs existed before Tesla and others infact make better EVs than Tesla today.
And Gates and Jobs may have started their companies earlier.
But they accomplished changing people's lives just a few years after the launch of their products.
Also I did not drop the argument that Elon is a con because he claims to be an engineer at all. It is right there in the post you have responded to. You are not reading.
So nice try pretending they only changed lives 40 years hence.
On the other hand it has been almost 20 years since the roadster rolled out and till date EVs are still a minority.
Yes tech development is faster today.
And yes everyone else is doing what Tesla is doing today as well.
Infact they are doing it just as, if not better than Tesla.
Throughout your argument you are unable to show any examples at all about how Elon has accomplished anything that counts as truly transformative.
All you could come up with are excuses for Elon.

Tesla (Model Y) is the #1 selling EV globally. If others are better then why is that?
Musk undertook engineering input in most of his products so you are wrong there.

Gates and Jobs did not change people's live in "just a few years after the launch of their products". In fact, several of their products were failures.

If you're just going to drop misinformation as the basis of your argument you will keep looking foolish and uninformed.

 

[jalimon]

Elon mocking Trudeau proves us that he as become obsessed by Trump. He is the new Lindell.

There is one very important rule in business. Stay away from politics. Never publicly root for a party over another. You want to donate, fine. Donate and shut the fuck up. Time will prove I am correct.

 

[squeezer]

Elon mocking Trudeau proves us that he as become obsessed by Trump. He is the new Lindell.

There is one very important rule in business. Stay away from politics. Never publicly root for a party over another. You want to donate, fine. Donate and shut the fuck up. Time will prove I am correct.

At the moment based on his wealth accumulated since supporting the orange monkey, he's kicking ass. I agree though, once Trump gets into actual power and starts messing the country up, that will change.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

Tesla (Model Y) is the #1 selling EV globally. If others are better then why is that?
Musk undertook engineering input in most of his products so you are wrong there.

Gates and Jobs did not change people's live in "just a few years after the launch of their products". In fact, several of their products were failures.

If you're just going to drop misinformation as the basis of your argument you will keep looking foolish and uninformed.

So Tesla is a successful business.
Not a transformative one.
And I am referring to personal computing and smartphones.
Yes they changed lives.
Otherwise you wouldn't be using a personal computer or a smartphone to write on this board.
And they did so about a decade into their products launches. Infact quicker in the case of smartphones.
You are once again engaged in mental gymnastics.
All you have for Elon are excuses.

 

[Skoob]

So Tesla is a successful business.
Not a transformative one.
And I am referring to personal computing and smartphones.
Yes they changed lives.
Otherwise you wouldn't be using a personal computer or a smartphone to write on this board.
And they did so about a decade into their products launches. Infact quicker in the case of smartphones.
You are once again engaged in mental gymnastics.
All you have for Elon are excuses.

You said other companies are doing better than Tesla with EVs and I proved you wrong. Now you pivot your point about them when your argument failed.
Who is doing gymnastics here?

Do you know why Tesla is a successful business?
Because they were innovative and changed people's options for vehicles that don't need gas.
Their innovation sparked other companies to do the same and to invest in a similar technology.
Quebec is going to bas gas powered cars in 2035. Why do you think that is and do you think that will change people's lives?

Apple was founded in 1976.
First iPhone was released 30 years later.
You are criticizing Musk like you would be criticizing Jobs early in Apple's history.

Your argument keeps failing miserably.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

You said other companies are doing better than Tesla with EVs and I proved you wrong. Now you pivot your point about them when your argument failed.
Who is doing gymnastics here?

Do you know why Tesla is a successful business?
Because they were innovative and changed people's options for vehicles that don't need gas.
Their innovation sparked other companies to do the same and to invest in a similar technology.
Quebec is going to bas gas powered cars in 2035. Why do you think that is and do you think that will change people's lives?

Apple was founded in 1976.
First iPhone was released 30 years later.
You are criticizing Musk like you would be criticizing Jobs early in Apple's history.

Your argument keeps failing miserably.

How did you prove me wrong? All your points were refuted.
Other companies did better to transform lives than Tesla ever did.
This is a fact that you cannot refute with evidence because the impacts are there to see. I provided several examples.

Once again you keep making this mistake of equating being successful and innovative with transformative.
Successful and innovative companies are dime a dozen.
Transformative ones like Google, FB, Apple, Microsoft, Amazon etc are few and far between.
Tesla, SpaceX do not fall in this category.
They fall in the category of successful.

By the way your Apple example is a dishonest failure.
Apple released McIntosh in 1984. Apple was instrumental in revolutionizing more than one thing - personal computing and smartphones.

Again Tesla does not come close to them in terms of accomplishments.
Your mental gymnastics are getting more and more futile.
All you have for Elon are excuses. Not once have you been able to show a transformative example and show how it was transformative.
"Oh its too early to say" - well if it is too early, then how can you consider him transformative? You are admitting he hasn't accomplished anything transformative right there.
The only reason you defend him is because you are MAGA and so is he.

 

[dirtydaveiii]

You said other companies are doing better than Tesla with EVs and I proved you wrong. Now you pivot your point about them when your argument failed.
Who is doing gymnastics here?

Do you know why Tesla is a successful business?
Because they were innovative and changed people's options for vehicles that don't need gas.
Their innovation sparked other companies to do the same and to invest in a similar technology.
Quebec is going to bas gas powered cars in 2035. Why do you think that is and do you think that will change people's lives?

Apple was founded in 1976.
First iPhone was released 30 years later.
You are criticizing Musk like you would be criticizing Jobs early in Apple's history.

Your argument keeps failing miserably.

Tesla is successful only because of Liberal governments. Think about that if the hamster on the wheel in your head hasnt had a heart attack

 

[Skoob]

How did you prove me wrong? All your points were refuted.
Other companies did better to transform lives than Tesla ever did.
This is a fact that you cannot refute with evidence because the impacts are there to see. I provided several examples.

Once again you keep making this mistake of equating being successful and innovative with transformative.
Successful and innovative companies are dime a dozen.
Transformative ones like Google, FB, Apple, Microsoft, Amazon etc are few and far between.
Tesla, SpaceX do not fall in this category.
They fall in the category of successful.

By the way your Apple example is a dishonest failure.
Apple released McIntosh in 1984. Apple was instrumental in revolutionizing more than one thing - personal computing and smartphones.

Again Tesla does not come close to them in terms of accomplishments.
Your mental gymnastics are getting more and more futile.
All you have for Elon are excuses. Not once have you been able to show a transformative example and show how it was transformative.
"Oh its too early to say" - well if it is too early, then how can you consider him transformative? You are admitting he hasn't accomplished anything transformative right there.
The only reason you defend him is because you are MAGA and so is he.

The first iPhone...the product you have kept using as an example as being "transformative", was released in 2007. 30+ years after Apple was founded.
Macintosh only held about 6% of the home PC market in 1984. Is that your example of a revolutionary product?

The SpaceX Falcon 9 and Falcon Heavy are the most used reusable rockets on the planet.
The Falcon 9 is the only one that's commercially available to launch people into orbit.
You don't think that's revolutionary enough?

Like I said, every time you try to peddle facts you screw it up.
But the truth is that Musk could cure cancer, and now that he supports Trump, you would still think he hasn't accomplished anything.

You would have more integrity just admitting that rather than peddling misinformation and looking foolish.

 

[Skoob]

Tesla is successful only because of Liberal governments. Think about that if the hamster on the wheel in your head hasnt had a heart attack

The hamster in your head died a long time ago considering Tesla received the bulk of its funding under George W. Bush between 2007-2009. Without which they wouldn't have succeeded.

But we all know grasping facts is not your strong suit. You would rather play with hamsters.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

The first iPhone...the product you have kept using as an example as being "transformative", was released in 2007. 30+ years after Apple was founded.

Oh really?
Let us set aside the fact that the personal computer and smartphone are different products.
But both products completely altered the way we live and conduct business.
This is undeniable.

Let us also use your logic (or lack thereof). Tesla was formed more than a CENTURY after the 1st EV.
It is still a badly constructed vehicle, that holds a minority of the automotive market share, and is unaffordable for most.
It has not transformed anything at all.
Neither the way we drive, nor consumer behaviour.

So there you go.
Your entire argument buried right there.
Your mental gymnastics will only take you so far.
At some point you may be better served by admitting to the truth that you defend Elon because you are MAGA than failing miserably everytime you respond.

 

[Skoob]

Oh really?
Let us set aside the fact that the personal computer and smartphone are different products.
But both products completely altered the way we live and conduct business.
This is undeniable.

Let us also use your logic (or lack thereof). Tesla was formed more than a CENTURY after the 1st EV.
It is still a badly constructed vehicle, that holds a minority of the automotive market share, and is unaffordable for most.
It has not transformed anything at all.
Neither the way we drive, nor consumer behaviour.

So there you go.
Your entire argument buried right there.
Your mental gymnastics will only take you so far.
At some point you may be better served by admitting to the truth that you defend Elon because you are MAGA than failing miserably everytime you respond.

It was you who mentioned that computers and smartphones were transformative and totally overlooked the fact that it took them decades to get to that.

You logic keeps failing you. The first computer was created in the 1800's. The first personal computer was released in 1973. Are you now going to blame Gates and Jobs for taking too long to be "transformative" based on that like you're blaming Musk?

Don't try to be clever...you're not good at it.

Just say you hate Musk for shallow reasons and leave at that.

Trying to fool anyone you actually have any factual info is failing you.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

It was you who mentioned that computers and smartphones were transformative and totally overlooked the fact that it took them decades to get to that.

Apple was formed in 1976 and they produced the first personal computer in 1984.
It took decades?
You must be smoking something real strong.
Personal computers were the product category that was being developed at that time and they brought one to market within 8 years.
It then proceeded to revolutionize personal computing.

Personal computers eventually developed, reduced formed factor, and became smartphones by the early 2000s. (There is a reason your smartphone is actually considered a computer).
Within a decade of that, Apple brought the iPhone to market.
Again revolutionized telecommunications.

The first EV was built in the 1800s.
Tesla brought one to market in 2006.
Till today they are minnows.
They haven't revolutionized anything.
So there you go.

No I dont have to try to be clever.
One does not need to be clever to counter your mental gymnastics.

 

[Skoob]

Apple was formed in 1976 and they produced the first personal computer in 1984.
It took decades?
You must be smoking something real strong.
Personal computers were the product category that was being developed at that time and they brought one to market within 8 years.
It then proceeded to revolutionize personal computing.

Personal computers eventually developed, reduced formed factor, and became smartphones by the early 2000s. (There is a reason your smartphone is actually considered a computer).
Within a decade of that, Apple brought the iPhone to market.
Again revolutionized telecommunications.

The first EV was built in the 1800s.
Tesla brought one to market in 2006.
Till today they are minnows.
They haven't revolutionized anything.
So there you go.

No I dont have to try to be clever.
One does not need to be clever to counter your mental gymnastics.

iPhone took decades like I said.
Macintosh only had a 6% market share in 84 and remained there until the early 90's.
More people preferred the Commodore 64 and Atari over Macintosh.
So that product did in fact take decades to gain traction only hitting 12% market share in the 90's and dropping until the mid/late-2000's.

So 1976-2006 is 3 decades.

So yes it took decades.

Want to keep looking foolish?

Be my guest.