Thanks. Fortunately, that is one of the receptacles that I will miss the least. It is in the furnace room in the basement and I don't spend much time down there at all.
Electrical Wall Outlet Dead
- Thread starter Rockslinger
- Start date
Not wishing to be an alarmist, but you really shouldn't just forget about the problem. It's entirely possible that the damage is close enough to make some arcing which would present a definite possibility of fire. One fire will make that $100/hr electrician look pretty cheap.....
Now, you got me worry. What is this "arcing" thing? I'm not using the receptacle and it is at the "end of the run". In fact, I'm rarely in the basement so all the lights on that circuit are almost always turned off. (The furnace is on a different circuit.)
P.S. Actually, I am thinking of cleaning up and updating my breaker panel so will probably deal with this problem at the same time. When I installed central air 3 years ago the installer had to disconnect a couple of unused circuits to make room for the central air connection.
arcing is where you have two wires that occasionally touch each other or aren't firmly twisted together and protected with a marrette or wire nut. What happens is the electrical current "arcs" or "jumps" from wire to wire creating a spark. How do you think a gas bbq lights? it uses an "arc" or "spark" created by a piezo electric starter.
This arc can ignite the paper on drywall, insulation, etc etc if it is in contact not to mention the heat build up by the high resistance in the wires (resistance is the "pressure" that wire has that the electrical current has to overcome in order to flow). The higher the resistance, the more heat is generated by the electron flow. For eg: a heater element has high resistance hence why it glows hot.
I think most likely you have a broken wire close to the securing point in the box. The break could have been weakened by the arc you created with the spark and then pulling the outlet out, then moving the wires about while you installed the new outlet could have caused the break.
Since you say the outlet is on the same circuit as the lights, you could start removing light fixtures and find the one that has more than two connections in it. Each should have 1 feed coming from the switch, and another lead running to the next light. If the outlet is attached to this circuit via one of the quad boxes the lights are installed in, one box should have 1 feed and 2leads. (one to the next light and 1 to the outlet). Now if the outlet is attached to the last light in the circuit, it could have 1 lead and 1 feed also.
Another thing you might look for is a junction box with just a cover on it where this outlet gets connected to the circuit.
BTW: did you check your testor to make sure it is working???? I ALWAYS check my pen testor on a known live circuit before I begin anything. It is when technology fails do accidents happen....
This arc can ignite the paper on drywall, insulation, etc etc if it is in contact not to mention the heat build up by the high resistance in the wires (resistance is the "pressure" that wire has that the electrical current has to overcome in order to flow). The higher the resistance, the more heat is generated by the electron flow. For eg: a heater element has high resistance hence why it glows hot.
I think most likely you have a broken wire close to the securing point in the box. The break could have been weakened by the arc you created with the spark and then pulling the outlet out, then moving the wires about while you installed the new outlet could have caused the break.
Since you say the outlet is on the same circuit as the lights, you could start removing light fixtures and find the one that has more than two connections in it. Each should have 1 feed coming from the switch, and another lead running to the next light. If the outlet is attached to this circuit via one of the quad boxes the lights are installed in, one box should have 1 feed and 2leads. (one to the next light and 1 to the outlet). Now if the outlet is attached to the last light in the circuit, it could have 1 lead and 1 feed also.
Another thing you might look for is a junction box with just a cover on it where this outlet gets connected to the circuit.
BTW: did you check your testor to make sure it is working???? I ALWAYS check my pen testor on a known live circuit before I begin anything. It is when technology fails do accidents happen....
This would narrow the search area to within a few inches of where the wires connect to the receptacle. So, should I disconnect the receptacle and trace each of the 3 wires back up into the cable?
The only tester I have is a voltage tester (2 prongs and a bulb that lights up or not). Yes, I tried it on a live receptacle and the bulb lit up.
I am reading Rock's message and then I came to "SCREWDRIVER" and had a flashback to when I was a kid.
My father was trying to get a piece of toast out of the toaster with a fork.
I just happened to be looking at the toaster when there was a flash and there went my father across the kitchen landing on his ass after bouncing off the wall. Lucky for him that is all that happened. He never made that mistake again.
Yes, but how is the toaster? Just kidding. Glad your dad is ok
.What have we learned this weekend?
1) There are circuit breakers for a reason. Use them BEFORE the screwdriver. Appliances have plugs. Unplug them BEFORE forking them.
2) Get at least one or two CO detectors for your home.
CONCLUSION:
When I had my first ever central air installed about 3 years ago, I created a "map" of my breaker panel (smart, eh). After the flash last Friday, I went to the breaker panel and did not visually notice any breakers had tripped. So, I consulted my "map" and saw breaker #6 "basement front" and immediately INCORRECTLY ASSUMED that the receptacle was on this breaker.
It turns out that the receptacle is on its own circuit and is on breaker #5. Life lesson #57: Read the ENTIRE breaker map before deciding which is the correct breaker for a receptacle.
Everything is fine now. I am so embarressed. Let us speak of this no more forever.
When I had my first ever central air installed about 3 years ago, I created a "map" of my breaker panel (smart, eh). After the flash last Friday, I went to the breaker panel and did not visually notice any breakers had tripped. So, I consulted my "map" and saw breaker #6 "basement front" and immediately INCORRECTLY ASSUMED that the receptacle was on this breaker.
It turns out that the receptacle is on its own circuit and is on breaker #5. Life lesson #57: Read the ENTIRE breaker map before deciding which is the correct breaker for a receptacle.
Everything is fine now. I am so embarressed
. Let us speak of this no more forever.I agree with everyone else.... get a professional.
With a 15 amp breaker, I doubt you fried the wire in the wall. More likely the breaker is fried. But again, get a professional! Hamster has good advice on finding a good one!
With a 15 amp breaker, I doubt you fried the wire in the wall. More likely the breaker is fried. But again, get a professional! Hamster has good advice on finding a good one!
What a great thread. Glad to hear no one was hurt.
I was going to suggest that Rockslinger have a big party and invite all the experts from terb who have contributed here to come over and get this thing fixed once and for all.
I would think a committee that gathers all this wisdom would have this problem solved in no time.
Then you could all sit and watch a ball game or something and drink Rockslinger's beer.
I was going to suggest that Rockslinger have a big party and invite all the experts from terb who have contributed here to come over and get this thing fixed once and for all.
I would think a committee that gathers all this wisdom would have this problem solved in no time.
Then you could all sit and watch a ball game or something and drink Rockslinger's beer.
Glad to hear all is well.
I do have one question, though, although it is somewhat rhetorical and does not require a response: when you came here for advice, you were asked (e.g. Post #17) specifically why you thought this receptacle was on the same breaker which you had reset several times, indicating that it sounded like it was on a different breaker. Yet it still took some days to confirm that was in fact the case. Were you really looking for advice, or just confirmation and consolation in your earlier conclusion?
This thread proves once again that TERBIES possess a multitude of talents in addition to being great in the sack
. Let's get back to talking about women!Yes, this is where I screwed up. When the flash occurred, I knew that I had probably tripped the breaker. I went to the breaker panel and did a visual inspection and did not notice any tripped breakers (that corner of the furnace room is also not well lit).
I then went to look at my breaker "map" and saw "basement front" on breaker #6 and did not read the rest of the map. I then turned breaker #6 off and all the ceiling lights in "basement front" shut off and I INCORRECTLY ASSUMED that the receptacle was also on this same breaker. The receptacle is actually on its own circuit and is connected to breaker #5 and I would have saw that if I had read the entire map the first time.
See what happens when you don't notice there's already multiple pages in a thread? You reply when the solution has already presented itself!I have a confession to make. I hate to admit this but........................
My guess would have been you had the wrong breaker.... I can't see a 15 amp breaker allowing enough juice to burn through insulated wire. It sounded like your screwdriver touched both prongs on the CO2 detector while they were still in contact with the receptacle, shorting out the circuit and causing the breaker to flip.
And now it turns out my guess was right! Don't mess with electricity... 110 volts probably won't kill you, but it will sure make life interesting!
Yup, the darn thing is that my visual inspection did not see any tripped breaker. Maybe, like an old baseball player, my eyesight is failing in my old age. It was then that I consulted my breaker map and saw breaker #6 "basement front", if I had continued looking at the rest of the map I would have seen breaker #5 "furnace room wall outlet".
Query: Is it possible that a breaker can trip and not be obvious to the eye? (I swear I eyeballed all the breakers and did not see any one had tripped.)
That wasn't the mistake. The mistake was dismantling a receptacle, without first making sure he knew what breaker it was connected to. Depending on what the failure was, and what else was happening in the house, the power could have returned unexpectedly.
110 (V) can hurt you badly, especially, if it is not a glancing shock. I think the electric chair uses less than 100 (V) to execute someone.
This was a case where:
a) All the circuit breakers in the breaker box should have been toggled. Sometimes, under short-circuit loads, the breaker will trip without flipping to "off." As such, it is necessary to toggle each breaker, one at a time, until the flipped one is found and reset.
b) All GFCI outlets should have been found and checked.
c) All upstream outlets from the malfunctioning one needed to be checked (assuming the problem was not obviously at a GFCI or a breaker.)
d) If you can't prove power is disconnected, then you have to turn everything off before working on the malfunctioning outlet. "TURN THEM ALL OFF." The master disconnect helps.
e) The correct tools to trace wiring inside a house should have been used.
I think this is what happened in my case. It probably tripped without flipping to "off" so to the naked eye it was not obvious that it had tripped.
