Electrical Wall Outlet Dead

[Moraff]

No, the OP stated that there were only 3 wires in the box.

Black
White
Ground.

A split would have a red wire.

Sorry, that post was directed at Keebler's post (#22) in which he had an outlet that had one dead and one live receptacle, not towards the OP's dilemma.

And you're right, a split SHOULD have a red wire, however I have seen them done with two black, one white (which I'm pretty sure is not code-compliant but when non-electricians start doing things anything can be found)


Other possibility for one dead receptacle.... if it's an end of run outlet, one of the little tabs connecting the two screws on each side may have broken.

 

[Rockslinger]

Although I know you stated that this outlet is on the same circuit as other things... including some lights. Are you 100% positive tho'? Did you check to see if there were other breakers that may be tripped?

It has been more than 14 hours since the "incident" and I did a walkthrough of the house and all seems fine, except for the infamous dead receptacle. So, the problem seems to be isolated to that receptacle.

If you're sure it's on the same circuit as the working lights you know the breaker is not damaged (otherwise the lights would be out too). So the problem must lie elsewhere.

Yes, the ceiling lights and the other receptacle on that circuit are working fine. I doubt this particular receptacle would be on its own circuit. In fact, all the other breakers like fine.

If the wires at the outlet look okay, then there's damage somewhere back along the line.

Damage back along the line would be really unusual in my personal amateur electrician experience. I have changed a number of receptacles, ceiling light fixtures and wall light switches over the past 20 years and they always worked UNTIL NOW. Maybe, I'll go back to this box and clean the wires some more or cut of the last 1/2 inch.

Are any of you guys old enough to remember when you had to twist the incoming wires into a "U turn" around the screws on the receptacles? Now you can just push the black and white wires straight into a round slot.

 

[james t kirk]

Are any of you guys old enough to remember when you had to twist the incoming wires into a "U turn" around the screws on the receptacles? Now you can just push the black and white wires straight into a round slot.

I never use the push in slots. (Which have been around for 30 years I believe.)

Some areas require you to join the wires together with a marret, then feed the recepticle with a "pig tail"

 

[Rockslinger]

When you shorted it (the flash) you damaged something further upstream. Now you simply need to find where. Assuming there are no hidden junction points in your wall or ceiling, it is simply a matter of figuring out where the end run wire in the box in your furnace room feeds from.

This does seem to be the problem now. It is probably somewhere in the cable between this box and the next box or ceiling light (but not affecting that box or light). This receptacle already had a pre-existing problem in that the upper outlet had already stopped working before the "incident" last night. Maybe the problem was within the old receptacle itself and I created another problem last night by using the screwdriver to unplug the old CO detector.
Query: Wouldn't the short (flash) also damage the old CO detector that was plugged into the receptacle? The detector is still working fine.

My educated guess would be that that is where your problem is. (I.e. the closest other box - recepticle or switch).

That would seem to be the problem but not enough to affect the other box as everything else is working fine.

 

[Rockslinger]

I never use the push in slots. (Which have been around for 30 years I believe.)

So, you still wrap each wire around the screw connection? In my case, I think the problem is that the black and white wires are dead at the box as my tester light did not light when I touched those wires with the prongs on my tester.

Some areas require you to join the wires together with a marret, then feed the recepticle with a "pig tail"

Not sure what this means. Do you join just the black and white or all three including the ground? "Pig tail" is a new term to me.

 

[Tangwhich]

Could also be a split outlet. Each receptacle is on a separate circuit. Commonly found in kitchens. That way you don't overload one circuit with too many appliances at once.

They share a two pull breaker. One side cannot be live while the other is not. Papasmerf is probably correct in that half of it is switched.

 

[james t kirk]

They share a two pull breaker. One side cannot be live while the other is not. Papasmerf is probably correct in that half of it is switched.

If half was switched, there would be more than 3 wires.

 

[james t kirk]

Pig tail means you join the two black wires with a third black wire about 6" long with a marret.

Ditto the white wires.

You then connect the "Pig Tail" - the 6" wire to the recepticle and tuck the marret into the back of the box. In this fashion, should the recepticle somehow fail, you lose only that recepticle and not everything downstream of it.

Toronto makes no such requirement. I seem to recall that the Niagara Region did (like 20 years ago.)

And yes, I always wrap the wires around the lugs.

 

[Tangwhich]

If half was switched, there would be more than 3 wires.

I was responding to keebler, not the original poster.

 

[squirrelly04]

I'll come fix it for you if you get me a young asian girl.

 

[tboy]

.....
Query: Wouldn't the short (flash) also damage the old CO detector that was plugged into the receptacle? The detector is still working fine.


.......

No. The "flash" might not affect the co detecter because you probably shorted one of the prongs of the detecter to the ground screw holding on the cover plate. This means you shorted before or after the detecter not through it.

As stated: you either have a switch of some sort controlling the electricity to this outlet or you have a break somewhere in the black wire. You "could" have a break in the whtie (common) wire but since you're using a bulb to check, you don't actually know if the black is actually carrying current. A current tester would tell you this.

I will sayi this again: go to home depot and get one of the pen "chirp" detetors and throw out that bulb thing. You could effectively have a live black wire that you're scewing around with and not know it. A bulb won't tell you if there's current present, only whether there is a complete cirrcuit or not....

 

[Moraff]

Damage back along the line would be really unusual in my personal amateur electrician experience.

Agreed, however you appear to have eliminated the receptacle as the culprit since according to your tester there is no complete circuit coming into the box. Ergo, the problem must lie between there and the next working item on the circuit.

I have changed a number of receptacles, ceiling light fixtures and wall light switches over the past 20 years and they always worked UNTIL NOW. Maybe, I'll go back to this box and clean the wires some more or cut of the last 1/2 inch.

Look at the insulation before you cut.... is there any discolouration or damage to be seen? If so, that may be where the problem lies and you'll be very lucky.

Are any of you guys old enough to remember when you had to twist the incoming wires into a "U turn" around the screws on the receptacles? Now you can just push the black and white wires straight into a round slot.

Still do it that way and I've not heard any reputable electrician whorecommends using the push in slots. And ideally you should be bending into a "?" shape, not a "U", tho' the only time you see that is for a camera or school test <grin>.

 

[papasmerf]

Time for a pro t look at it.

 

[Moraff]

They share a two pull breaker. One side cannot be live while the other is not. Papasmerf is probably correct in that half of it is switched.

Again I'll say that you are correct, that's the way it should be set up. Amateur electricians do all sorts of 'interesting' things. For example I did a renovation of a rec. room and discovered 19 junction boxes hidden behind the walls and ceiling as well as splices that were done outside of a junction box, with no wire nuts or even electrical tape!

If the breaker or circuit of one side of the split plug is damaged there could be one live and one dead receptacle.

I agree that unless the outlet in question is in a kitchen it is likely switched or the receptacle itself is damaged.

 

[Cycleguy007]

Time for a pro t look at it.

That time has long passed!

Rock- call someone who knows WTF their doing! LOL! (You can even offer him a free Coors Light baseball cap as a bonus since we all know you need to get rid of them!)

 

[papasmerf]

That time has long passed!

Rock- call someone who knows WTF their doing! LOL! (You can even offer him a free Coors Light baseball cap as a bonus since we all know you need to get rid of them!)

One thing I love about amateurs is the amount of money they earn me.

Anyone can do the work but few can fix it when they mess up.

 

[Rockslinger]

So, I went to see our local electrician who also owns a hardware store open on a Sunday. He wasn't there but I spoke to his wife. I told her the sad tale. Showed her the old receptacle, old CO detector and the infamous SCREWDRIVER. She said there is something messed up somewhere along the line.

She said her electrician husband charges by the hour at $100 per hour.

 

[papasmerf]

So, I went to see our local electrician who also owns a hardware store open on a Sunday. He wasn't there but I spoke to his wife. I told her the sad tale. Showed her the old receptacle, old CO detector and the infamous SCREWDRIVER. She said there is something messed up somewhere along the line.

She said her electrician husband charges by the hour at $100 per hour.

If you were in Buffalo, I would have looked at it for free.

 

[james t kirk]

But it would cost him two hundred bucks in wings, beers, and strippers in Fort Erie.

 

[papasmerf]

But it would cost him two hundred bucks in wings, beers, and strippers in Fort Erie.

Na

Just a beer