Wow.... she never said any of this.... She just made the point that if a guy decides to get violent, there is not a lot a girl can do at the time.... and it happens in this biz more than you will ever know. It is definitely a real and legit concern for the girls. You are a smart guy, and i know you know this.... so what am I missing here?
Does it bother you when SP's discuss money?
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Wow.... she never said any of this.... She just made the point that if a guy decides to get violent, there is not a lot a girl can do at the time.... and it happens in this biz more than you will ever know. It is definitely a real and legit concern for the girls. You are a smart guy, and i know you know this.... so what am I missing here?
I find the results of the poll quite interesting, and it does suggest that the assumption I've been going with so far is representative of the preference of only a minority. Good to know.
However, I don't think it's fair to suggest that those who do have an issue with "money talk" shouldn't see SPs or that they have deeper psychological issues that should be addressed. First, our society in general has very prudish attitudes towards money: talking money is talking dirty for many people (and not in a good way). Money has also come to symbolize the complete opposite of what intimacy is: a monetary transaction is by definition sanitized, depersonalized, commercialized. So, it makes sense that for someone who is looking for a more "intimate" fantasy that goes beyond a great fuck, that they would feel that the money talk ruins this illusion of intimacy. It doesn't necessarily means that they are deluded about the illusion aspect of the encounter: they just don't want to be reminded of it for the duration of the encounter. I don't find this very much different than clients not wanting to hear about their SP's boyfriend or other clients for instance: I'm sure most aren't deluded into thinking that they are the only guy that the SP is fucking. But it doesn't mean that they want to be reminded of it.
In my experience the client and providers comfort level in discussing the monetary transaction varies in regards to the type of encounter they are looking for/provide. A client that is interested in something shorter with clear cut boundaries, sex for money has no issue discussing the money, time limits, etc. A provider that has a menu of sexual services, set time limits, and keeps a specific schedule will also be fairly comfortable when it comes to discussing the cash transaction. A client that is booking for longer times, dinner dates, overnights, etc. where the time limit is flexible, where the environment is social and where one is getting to know the lady on a more personal level (not more intimate but it is more personal) often prefers to have the cash transaction dealt with in advance and not brought up again. The environment is social not business and as such it can ruin the mood to start talking about it. The same holds true for the ladies, those that focus on longer dates and social environments tend to prefer to not have a 'business transaction' mindset which means having the money aspect dealt with in advance so that when they are with the client it is a little more social. Now this is just a generalization and there are always exceptions to the rule; some clients enjoy discussing the "hobby" on their dates and others like a "date" feel but book short engagements for their own personal reasons.
As for myself, I prefer to not discuss it, I can only work in this industry when in a social mindset. Those saying that if you can't discuss the money you should get out of the business I disagree, in fact I think it's that disposition that sets me apart. I do not like to look at it as just a business transaction and I don't like to meet with others that view it as such as well, we generally don't click. I enjoy spending time with the people I meet and when it starts to feel too much like work, when I am in a business mindset then I cannot enjoy it and I am not at my best. When a new client asks me about rates I direct them to my site or as many have attested to they get a not as brief as it should be (sorry!) explanation of my 'flexible' time packages. After we've met a few times I'm comfortable discussing it but generally in the abstract much the same way that you talk about work with your friends, lovers, etc. I'm also upfront with my dates in letting them know that I don't like it to be a business transaction and that if they are looking for set times, rates and services then they should not see me.
There is a provider out there for everyone and finding the right one for you is what's important.
As for myself, I prefer to not discuss it, I can only work in this industry when in a social mindset. Those saying that if you can't discuss the money you should get out of the business I disagree, in fact I think it's that disposition that sets me apart. I do not like to look at it as just a business transaction and I don't like to meet with others that view it as such as well, we generally don't click. I enjoy spending time with the people I meet and when it starts to feel too much like work, when I am in a business mindset then I cannot enjoy it and I am not at my best. When a new client asks me about rates I direct them to my site or as many have attested to they get a not as brief as it should be (sorry!) explanation of my 'flexible' time packages. After we've met a few times I'm comfortable discussing it but generally in the abstract much the same way that you talk about work with your friends, lovers, etc. I'm also upfront with my dates in letting them know that I don't like it to be a business transaction and that if they are looking for set times, rates and services then they should not see me.
There is a provider out there for everyone and finding the right one for you is what's important.
Not sure what the problem is. The agency escort's rates are posted. If you are dealing with an independent the rates are discussed either over the phone or via the internet. You know going in (no pun intended) what the cost is. Leave the envelope in plain view or just hand it to the girl. Problem solved.
Yes, actually. Perhaps a poor choice of word on my part. I mean intimidation - whether by actual physical force or the suggestion of it. Also, physical force does not necessarily mean an assault. My point is that when faced with a money issue, the first thought is "Will this guy go off, and how badly will he go off & do I want to risk it?" More often than not, being the weaker gender, I bring up the issue but I won't push it beyond his first objection. I'll never see him again & I will warn others of this "mis-understanding", so if it is a pattern he will be figured out.
Gen if you haven't read Predictably Irrational I'd highly recommend it. It discusses the way people look at transactions, business vs. social and our mindset when we approach certain situations and people, The Cost of Social Norms.
http://www.predictablyirrational.com/?page_id=129
When we are in social mindsets vs. business mindsets we behave differently, we make different choices and understanding the differences in these choices allow us to make smarter decisions in our lives.
I prefer to engage in this industry in a social mindset, though it is my business I can operate a business within a social transactional norms, much the way people do business with friends. The focus is on relationship building, being "client-centric".
Anyway it's a good read and something that is on point for this industry and many others where you are client facing, it's also a great read if you enjoy social sciences.
What triggered this was a thread by Gen in which a possible extension from 2 to 3 hours had been discussed. At the 2 hour mark there is a need to discuss money even if only indirectly. I agree that in general you know going in what's owed and there is usually no reason to need to discuss it.
Its like going to a gas station and asking the attendent to put $30.00 worth of gas in the tank. He puts in $33.00 worth of gas. Do you pay the $33.00 or just the $30.00?
It's possible he didn't notice the time or that he will assume "just chatting" isn't on the clock or some other misunderstanding. It's appropriate at the two hour mark for the SP to call attention to the clock ticking over into the 3rd hour and confirming the customer wants to pay for it.
There are other cases where money needs to be discussed. For example, I have had more than one case where an incompetent phone jockey quoted the wrong rate for the SP's time. That needed to be discussed, I would rather deal with those sorts of things openly and get them settled than have it malinger in the back of the SP's mind.
i don't use the envelope method myself.... I fan the money out on the dresser, the closest one to the door. This way, when the SP comes in, she can see it right away, and if she has her wits about her, she can clearly count it.
However, I get erked if she collects it straight away, only because I've had girls head out the door 20 mins into a call after the money had been collected....
Cheers!
However, I get erked if she collects it straight away, only because I've had girls head out the door 20 mins into a call after the money had been collected....
Cheers!
GRown ups can tell time...... If a call starts at 8, and ends at 11.... everyone knew what was going on. The fact the he said, "well I didn't agree to it" is clearly a defensive statement....
me too, plus I heard from tboy that the sps are selling the envelopes to stationary stores for a dime a dozen.
Hopefully that's quite rare, but this sort of fear/mistrust is why I like to pay immediately upon arrival before being asked to, handing over cash (not an envelope) so that it's clear the correct amount has been paid. I assume this builds trust, that the SP who has never met me before is reading tea leaves to try and guess what sort of person I am, and so I send out as many "you can trust me" signals as I can. I think that, plus a bit of charm, cleanliness, politeness, etc., helps put the SP at ease and ensures a pleasant session.
Not until he's seas some real change in this practice; Viggo is trying to shepherd in a new era.
