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Do you ever look at stuff and wonder how it got there?

InTO2018

Member
Jun 30, 2018
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Actually the majority are in the middle. They are the ones that determine the elections, they just don't really have a candidate to call their own. They are forced to choose a side every 4 years.

Another great point. “Forced to choose a side” is such an excellent phrase. Who wud have thunk it that in (arguably one of) the most prosperous nation on this Mother Earth, a vast number of people are being “forced to choose” a “less objectionable candidate” (to mix the two phrases I like in this thread).
 
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Gooseifur

Well-known member
Aug 13, 2019
3,828
440
83
This is where you are mistaken and going with the propaganda. The choice the Americans have is (to be generous) between a far right and a right fraction of the same party. The ruling class is perpetuating the mirage that there is a choice between two different parties, when in reality they both are beholden to the same interest. Look at Biden's voting record.
Agree but at this point in time Americans will not vote for a far left candidate, so the "left" has to nominate o moderate Republican instead. Buttigieg, Klobachar, Booker and Harris all represent the Biden/Pelosi wing of the party. Warren would have been the only one representing the left. Bernie is not a Democrat. He's a socialist, so I put him in a category by himself.
 

Boober69

Well-known member
Feb 23, 2012
6,722
263
83
That's got to be one of the most idiotic questions posted here.
If you have credit card debt not buying things won't get rid of it, you need to pay it off.
Yes and according to you, taxes would pay it off.
I asked how has that been working so far considering how much debt there is both provincially and federally while taxes have been steadily going up over the years?

And while we're on the topic of credit card debt, can you imagine if you had so much credit card debt that just the interest payment each month took money away from your other necessities? What would you do? Ask for a raise by saying you need more money because you can't control your spending?
Or would you need to manage your expenses and cut certain things to reduce your debt?

Once the lightbulb goes on in your head you'll see that the government debt and the approach to dealing with it is very similar.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
84,538
19,261
113
Yes and according to you, taxes would pay it off.
I asked how has that been working so far considering how much debt there is both provincially and federally while taxes have been steadily going up over the years?

And while we're on the topic of credit card debt, can you imagine if you had so much credit card debt that just the interest payment each month took money away from your other necessities? What would you do? Ask for a raise by saying you need more money because you can't control your spending?
Or would you need to manage your expenses and cut certain things to reduce your debt?

Once the lightbulb goes on in your head you'll see that the government debt and the approach to dealing with it is very similar.
Hey boob, how do you pay it off if don't use taxes?
 

Boober69

Well-known member
Feb 23, 2012
6,722
263
83
This might be a tough question for you but:

What would happen to the deficit if there were no taxes?
What would happen to taxes if there was no deficit?

My point was that if you are of the belief that the only way to pay off debt is to increase taxes, then that hasn't really been working considering taxes keep going up and the debt keeps increasing as well. At what point do you reach the point of not being able to increase taxes anymore? I mean people are paying more than half of their income in taxes already? Do you think taking the other half as well will fix the problem? No.
You need to curb the spending and you need to cut things.
Just like people do in their personal lives with househiold debt.

In the real world, if your interest on debt each month is more than what you can afford, then you need to reduce your spending on other things to level it out and make the payments, eventually reducing the debt. Once it's manageable, you can invest in other things.

Imagine if the Liberals didn't leave us with $1 billion/month interest payment...where that $12 billion/year could be invested? How much affordable housing could be built? Hospitals, schools? But instead, taxes need to be increased just to afford what we have today...we're barely making the minimum payment!

So if you think increasing taxes is the ultimate solution, then why not consider taxing everyone 100% and give all your money to the state. That is the ultimate Communist utopia!
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
84,538
19,261
113
What would happen to taxes if there was no deficit?

My point was that if you are of the belief that the only way to pay off debt is to increase taxes, then that hasn't really been working considering taxes keep going up and the debt keeps increasing as well. At what point do you reach the point of not being able to increase taxes anymore? I mean people are paying more than half of their income in taxes already? Do you think taking the other half as well will fix the problem? No.
Then you must think that this government bailout during the pandemic is all wrong, and instead we should just have cut taxes?
Because clearly you are against government spending and socialized medicine.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
84,538
19,261
113
So if you think increasing taxes is the ultimate solution, then why not consider taxing everyone 100% and give all your money to the state. That is the ultimate Communist utopia!
Check out this infographic.
https://mkorostoff.github.io/1-pixel-wealth/

Take a look through it and tell me which makes more sense:
a) cutting the minimal US social services even more
b) taxing the poor and middle class
c) taxing the rich

Which of those three do you really think could pay down any deficit or debt long term?
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
29,362
3,837
113
That's got to be one of the most idiotic questions posted here.
If you have credit card debt not buying things won't get rid of it, you need to pay it off.
Um. Not buying more does get rid of a deficit. A deficit is current year spending. Cut spending, cut deficit.

Debt is previous years spending.
 

Boober69

Well-known member
Feb 23, 2012
6,722
263
83
Then you must think that this government bailout during the pandemic is all wrong, and instead we should just have cut taxes?
Because clearly you are against government spending and socialized medicine.
No, I'm against mismanagement of taxes collected. I'm also against lazy politicing whereby rather than figure out efficiencies and proper management, the go-to solution is just to get everyone to pay more taxes like it's a bottomless pit of money.
They are spending more than they are taking in and their solution is to just ask for more?

Does that approach work for households and businesses?

And if you want to use bailouts as a way to distract then fine. They should have enough money in reserves to bail out everyone without the need to borrow or have everyone pay higher taxes to replenish the reserves. If they were managing money properly they would have enough to go around with the taxes currently being collected.
 

Boober69

Well-known member
Feb 23, 2012
6,722
263
83
Check out this infographic.
https://mkorostoff.github.io/1-pixel-wealth/

Take a look through it and tell me which makes more sense:
a) cutting the minimal US social services even more
b) taxing the poor and middle class
c) taxing the rich

Which of those three do you really think could pay down any deficit or debt long term?
The rich are already taxed. Why should they be punished by having to pay disproportionately more than everyone else just because the government mismanaged finances and now has monumental debt and promises it can't deliver on?

How many jobs has Bezos help create? Here's a clue: 750,000
How many sellers has Amazon helped earn a living by using its innovative technology? Here's a clue: 5,000,000

So a successful business owner who has provided a living for and generated wealth for thousands if not millions of people globally, has to be punished by having to pay higher taxes to help the government pay off its debts? Does that sound fair to you?

What if Mr. Bezos decided one day to tell the government to go fuck themselves and shut down his business? Now where will all those taxes come from? Here's a clue: your ass.

Your short-sighted strategy is exactly that...short-sighted.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
84,538
19,261
113
The rich are already taxed. Why should they be punished by having to pay disproportionately more than everyone else just because the government mismanaged finances and now has monumental debt and promises it can't deliver on?

How many jobs has Bezos help create? Here's a clue: 750,000
How many sellers has Amazon helped earn a living by using its innovative technology? Here's a clue: 5,000,000

So a successful business owner who has generated wealth for thousands if not millions of people globally, has to be punished by having to pay higher taxes to help the government pay off its debts? Does that sound fair to you?

What if Mr. Bezos decided one day to tell the government to go fuck themselves and shut down his business? Now where will all those taxes come from? Here's a clue: your ass.

Your short-sighted strategy is exactly that...short-sighted.
That infographic shows that you could tax the 400 richest people in the US enough to pay for the entire coronavirus stimulus and they'd hardly even notice it.

Your long term strategy lead to the first great depression. The divide between rich and poor and market freedoms lead to disaster the first time.
The answer was government intervention, stimulus spending that built much of the infrastructure of the US and Canada and social programs that you right wingers are still trying to kill.

Austerity has failed every single time its been tried, with every country, state or city all around the world.
Yet you still push it.

And here we are in the single greatest example of the power and need for socialized health care, government interventions and spending and you're still arguing for the kind of cuts that have only lead to more dead people in long term care units.

Your strategy has failed and you cannot find a single example of where its worked.
 

Boober69

Well-known member
Feb 23, 2012
6,722
263
83
That infographic shows that you could tax the 400 richest people in the US enough to pay for the entire coronavirus stimulus and they'd hardly even notice it.

Your long term strategy lead to the first great depression. The divide between rich and poor and market freedoms lead to disaster the first time.
The answer was government intervention, stimulus spending that built much of the infrastructure of the US and Canada and social programs that you right wingers are still trying to kill.

Austerity has failed every single time its been tried, with every country, state or city all around the world.
Yet you still push it.

And here we are in the single greatest example of the power and need for socialized health care, government interventions and spending and you're still arguing for the kind of cuts that have only lead to more dead people in long term care units.

Your strategy has failed and you cannot find a single example of where its worked.
Why is it so easy for you to spend other people's money like you are entitled to it? Oh right, because you're a Communist...

You want examples? Here you go...
- North Korea
- Bangladesh
- Venezuela
- Vietnam
- Cuba (I do love their cigars though)

They thought taking everyone's money for the state was a good idea too...why don't you join them and pick one to move to?

ps Ever wonder why the wall came down in East Germany? It wasn't because everyone liked their system.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
84,538
19,261
113
Why is it so easy for you to spend other people's money like you are entitled to it? Oh right, because you're a Communist...

You want examples? Here you go...
- North Korea
- Bangladesh
- Venezuela
- Vietnam
- Cuba (I do love their cigars though)

They thought taking everyone's money for the state was a good idea too...why don't you join them and pick one to move to?

ps Ever wonder why the wall came down in East Germany? It wasn't because everyone liked their system.
Like I said, you back a policy that's never worked and you can't find a single example where it has.
You failed again.

Dunning Kruger.....
 
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