Denying Holocaust Will be Illegal

[barnacler]

No, not a straw man, I was staying on topic, and did not bring in any outside comparable.

YOU brought up the idea that we should rely on academics:

" And more importantly, this kind of academic discussion should be done by academics, "

First of all, EVERY discussion could be labelled an "academic discussion". Meaningless.

I merely pointed out that I disagree that we should "leave certain discussions" to academics.

I pointed that academics are as prone to error, and more importantly, (expanding on my comment now) bias, political correctness, and career advancement as anyone else and have been shown many times to have gone careening off in quite false directions.

 

[barnacler]

Speaking of something proves nothing.

Documentation proves facts. The Holocaust has been documented.

Documentation proves nothing. Documentation is a purported fact that must be verified as true etc. There can be an opinion about documentation as there can be about anything else.

As I said, if it is all so clear cut and obvious, why the need to cut off discussion of it that may differ from what you believe?

You feel that YOU are smart enough to see through the misrepresentations, lies, etc, so why don't you have faith that others will too?

Are you an elite that can KNOW what is true and what i snot, but that no-one else can be trusted to also decide similarly?

I

 

[barnacler]

" Higher education is increasingly a house divided. In the sciences and even the humanities, actual scholars maintain the high standards of their noble calling. But in the humanities, especially, and elsewhere, faux scholars representing specious disciplines exploit academia as a jobs program for otherwise unemployable propagandists hostile to freedom of expression. "

 

[basketcase]

No, not a straw man, I was staying on topic,...

You obviously don't know what a strawman is despite throwing a whole army of them around.

And yes, it is meaningless when you pretend a bunch of racists screaming about the Holocaust is really an academic discussion.

 

[basketcase]

Documentation proves nothing. Documentation is a purported fact that must be verified as true etc. There can be an opinion about documentation as there can be about anything else.

As I said, if it is all so clear cut and obvious, why the need to cut off discussion of it that may differ from what you believe?

You feel that YOU are smart enough to see through the misrepresentations, lies, etc, so why don't you have faith that others will too?

Are you an elite that can KNOW what is true and what i snot, but that no-one else can be trusted to also decide similarly?

Do you deny that the Holocaust was an intentional plan by Nazi Germany to first lock up and later execute people specifically because their religion, ethnicity, or sexual orientation?

 

[barnacler]

Do you deny that the Holocaust was an intentional plan by Nazi Germany to first lock up and later execute people specifically because their religion, ethnicity, or sexual orientation?

I cannot deny or support any of what you just said.

I can merely give my OPINION.
Are you interested in my OPINION?

 

[barnacler]

You obviously don't know what a strawman is despite throwing a whole army of them around.

And yes, it is meaningless when you pretend a bunch of racists screaming about the Holocaust is really an academic discussion.

No, YOU said that it is a discussion only suitable for academics to discuss. Please refer to your previous comments, when you SPECIFICALLY said that this is a matter for academics to decide.

LOL

Game, Set , Match.

 

[shack]

Documentation proves nothing.

If that is your premise, there was no need read any more of your post.

You obviously have no idea of what you're talking about. Documenting an event eliminates the need for debating the topic. It is undeniable proof that that event occurred.

 

[shack]

I cannot deny or support any of what you just said.

I can merely give my OPINION.
Are you interested in my OPINION?

Is it your OPINION that the sun rose in the east this morning? Or do you accept it as fact.

Only anti-Semites want to make the Holocaust an opinion even though it is a documented and proven fact.

 

[basketcase]

I cannot deny or support any of what you just said.

I can merely give my OPINION.
Are you interested in my OPINION?

If your opinion is actually based on evidence, please go ahead. If you'd rather just spew hatred then go ahead and deny that the Holocaust was an intentional plot to segregate then murder Jews and other 'undesirables'...

 

[hemiman]

And a beautiful example of the topic.

That proves me wong?

 

[barnacler]

If your opinion is actually based on evidence, please go ahead. If you'd rather just spew hatred then go ahead and deny that the Holocaust was an intentional plot to segregate then murder Jews and other 'undesirables'...

A totally silly post completely unrelated to ANTYHING I have said.

1) Please show me ONE post where I spewed hatred.

2) Please show me ONE post where I stated that I do not believe that millions of Jews were murdered by the Nazis

Go on, find my posts that said those things.

I am now calling you a liar based on your post above.

You have zero evidence, yet you fabricated things about me without a single SHRED of evidence.

Ironically, you have just PROVEN why free speech is so essential.

 

[barnacler]

Is it your OPINION that the sun rose in the east this morning? Or do you accept it as fact.

Only anti-Semites want to make the Holocaust an opinion even though it is a documented and proven fact.

The issue which you fail to grasp, is that it doesn't matter if I am right or wrong that the earth is flat, what is so abhorrent about me saying something that you disagree with?

You fail to grasp the RISKS associated with curtailing free speech, that invariably it gets into the wrong hands, the hands of those that wish to stop OTHER PEOPLE from hearing all points of view, = why?

2 Reasons.

They believe so firmly that they are right that that is all that matters. If they think something then everyone else should do too. Which is anti-democratic and totalitarian in nature.

They are amoral and what power, and curtainling the ability of opponents to speak freely is a time-tested method to stay in power. History shows this over and over.

 

[barnacler]

If that is your premise, there was no need read any more of your post.

You obviously have no idea of what you're talking about. Documenting an event eliminates the need for debating the topic. It is undeniable proof that that event occurred.

Documentation is an INPUT to a theory or belief. It must be expounded upon using LOGIC and REASON.

Documentation is meaningless unless it is verified, explained, discussed, and incorporated into a theory.

NOW , OMG, this is rich, in a thread about free speech, you say that:

"there was no need read any more of you post."

So we are talking about free speech, yet YOU ARE NOW SAYING YOU DON"T NEED TO HEAR WHAT I AM SAYING"

So, even in this thread, you are advocating a curtailment of free specch because..... YOU ARE right!

so, should I say, "There's no need ot hear anything further you have to say? No! You say what you want, I will listen to it and respond.

But, I guess you will no longer want to hear my opinion. Please contact the moderators, and plead with them to stop me from posting, because , after all, you know that I am wrong, right?

 

[basketcase]

...

Ironically, you have just PROVEN why free speech is so essential.

So you can yammer on and not actually say anything? You offered to share your opinion but now you're afraid to. Why could that be?

p.s. Try reading what I said. I didn't accuse you of spewing hate but asked if you did want to share your opinion, to base it on evidence. All I proved is the importance of literacy when making arguments.

 

[barnacler]

So you can yammer on and not actually say anything? You offered to share your opinion but now you're afraid to. Why could that be?

p.s. Try reading what I said. I didn't accuse you of spewing hate but asked if you did want to share your opinion, to base it on evidence. All I proved is the importance of literacy when making arguments.

1) What opinion am I afraid to share? Please be precise. I don't think you WILL be, but please try.

The topic at hand is FREE SPEECH. Not "What is your opinion on the HOLOCAUST. LOL, in fact you want to hear only one opinion on the Holocaust.

That is the entire point. It is irrelevant what my opinion is on a host of topics. The question is, why do you feel that some opinions cannot be heard.?

What I have heard from you is, essentially, you ar eright, therefore we should not allow the "wrong " people to voice their opinions.

2) Define yammer, and please explain where I "yammerred"?

3) You said" If you'd rather just spew hatred then go ahead and deny that the Holocaust was an intentional plot to segregate then murder Jews and other 'undesirables'... "

If you weren't accusing me of spewing hate, then why on earth did you bring this "spewing hate' up?

You didn't say "If you 'd rather just keep on raping women, or stealing from Salvation Army Christmas Bowls, or slashing tires, or dropping chairs on people" etc, .

Instead you said If you'd rather just spew hatred then go ahead and deny that the Holocaust was an intentional plot to segregate then murder Jews and other 'undesirables'... "

So are you now saying that you do NOT accuse me of these things? Then WHY did you mention this " If you'd rather just spew hatred then go ahead and deny that the Holocaust was an intentional plot to segregate then murder Jews and other 'undesirables'... ???????

If it was TOTALLY unrelated to me, why did you bring up some totally RANDOM crime to me when you are now saying you were not actually linking me to it?

Say what you mean, mean what you say.

 

[shack]

The issue which you fail to grasp, is that it doesn't matter if I am right or wrong that the earth is flat, what is so abhorrent about me saying something that you disagree with?

Disagreeing with the shape of the earth does not help to foment hate against a race.

You fail to grasp the RISKS associated with curtailing free speech, that invariably it gets into the wrong hands, the hands of those that wish to stop OTHER PEOPLE from hearing all points of view, = why?

There is no point of view regarding the Holocaust. It happened. Same as above, it foments more hate initiated by people who hate. That's the risk. I know it does not put YOU at risk, so why should you care?

They believe so firmly that they are right that that is all that matters. If they think something then everyone else should do too. Which is anti-democratic and totalitarian in nature.

They are amoral and what power, and curtainling the ability of opponents to speak freely is a time-tested method to stay in power. History shows this over and over.

So you are OK with somebody yelling "FIRE" in a crowded theatre? Or somebody yelling "I HAVE A BOMB" on an airplane?

It's free speech, right? Not allowing somebody to yell fire is totalitarian.

 

[shack]

1) What opinion am I afraid to share? Please be precise. I don't think you WILL be, but please try.

The topic at hand is FREE SPEECH. Not "What is your opinion on the HOLOCAUST. LOL, in fact you want to hear only one opinion on the Holocaust.

That is the entire point. It is irrelevant what my opinion is on a host of topics. The question is, why do you feel that some opinions cannot be heard.?

What I have heard from you is, essentially, you ar eright, therefore we should not allow the "wrong " people to voice their opinions.

We all know why you are ducking an answer. You are afraid to express your true views. They would be too revealing.

I'm sure you have expressed lots of opinions in the last 9 years. All of a sudden you are shy. Your silence is a self-indictment.

 

[Jubee]

It'd be nice if Natives, blacks, Polish people, Scottish, etc, all those who have been brushed aside in history would get their time, I mean if everyone else is.

 

[basketcase]

1) What opinion am I afraid to share? ...

Is it too confusing for you?

Do you deny that the Holocaust was an intentional plan by Nazi Germany to first lock up and later execute people specifically because their religion, ethnicity, or sexual orientation?

I cannot deny or support any of what you just said.

I can merely give my OPINION.
Are you interested in my OPINION?

If your opinion is actually based on evidence, please go ahead. ..

So, in your OPINION, was the Holocaust an intentional plan by Nazi Germany to first lock up and later execute people specifically because their religion, ethnicity, or sexual orientation?