Deceiving Your Sex Partner Would Be a Crime Under New York Bill

[onomatopoeia]

This would be one of those laws where almost 100% of the time, women and anatomically male individuals who self identify as a woman would never be prosecuted, because something is usually going in to them, rather than the other way around.

Before 1969 anal intercourse between consenting gay men was still illegal in Canada, and 100 years ago, a man could be sentenced to life in prison for being a 'top'. The 'bottom' wasn't guilty of anything. The charge would have been sodomy/ buggery.

 

[james t kirk]

"She told me she was on the pill and now 9 months later she tells me she was not" (Like that has never happened.)

So would they throw the book at her?

Or would she get the pussy pass?

I can just hear it now, "oh no, poor dear was desperate and in a dark place and he took advantage of her and raped her. He should go to jail"

 

[mandrill]

"She told me she was on the pill and now 9 months later she tells me she was not" (Like that has never happened.)
So would they throw the book at her?
Or would she get the pussy pass?
I can just hear it now, "oh no, poor dear was desperate and in a dark place and he took advantage of her and raped her. He should go to jail"

That exact thing happened to one of my buddies.

 

[Ryan4life]

Wow this could end up getting many women into trouble. Imagine how many women can get busted for fake boobs and magic bras!!! Let alone lying about age or marital status.

Couldn't agree more. Makeup, push up bras , high heels should all be seen as deception under this bill.

 

[Jenesis]

Many of you may recall that William Kennedy Smith, (his mother Jean was a sister of JFK, RFK, and Ted), was tried and acquitted of rape in 1991. The pertinent facts, his version:

He met a woman in a Palm Beach, Florida bar. She accepted his invitations to visit the Kennedy compound, and they commenced consensual sex outdoors. In the middle of the act, he called her by the wrong name, and she decided she didn't want to continue. He finished. The lady claimed to have been raped because she changed her mind in mid act. I wonder, in today's climate, if he would have been convicted, based on identical facts and evidence?

If she said no in the middle of the act, and he finished, then yes it is rape. If she said, get off me, or I’m done, or I have change my mind. Any of those would be removing consent. Which can be done at any time.

If she changed her mind but said hurry up and finish, then not rape. If she changed her mind and didn’t vocalize it, then no it is not rape.

I don’t even like using the word rape. It is sexual assault. Anyone, man or woman, can withdraw consent at anytime and the sex has to stop right then and there, not even an extra thrust. I admit it is a fine line but the line is there and I would say it is one of the most important lines to NOT cross.

That exact thing happened to one of my buddies.

This happened to an ex of mine. He never wanted kids, and now he has two. And she wonders why she has to basically fight him to take visitation. LOL

There are forums upon forums of women asking other women if they should just go off the pill to get pregnany behind their husbands backs. It is disgusting and I think a law like this would help plenty of men in these situations.

 

[Tomoreno]

I wonder how people who constantly brake promises would fit in with such law.

Imagine being with someone who's habit(s) bugs the hell out of you, but you stay together because there's a promise of improvement/change. Fast forward a few months or even years later and NOTHING is better.

Do you call cops on them at some point and say that you feel violated? Lock em up for lying??

 

[nottyboi]

That was one of the points that was brought up. You lie about your income and all of sudden you are a rapist. How does that work?

In the show, because they need drama, he had an apartment and shit with a doorman calling him John, etc. Like he went ALL out in the deception.

Still wasn’t convicted of Rape. If I remember correctly, the plea deal came because the judge said he would overrule the jury if they convicted. I don’t know if judges can do that. But he said he would, he told the DA and the defendants lawyers to work it out and come back when it was done. So that was why the deal.

A judge can set aside the verdict of a jury.

 

[nottyboi]

Further to this conversation, can anyone clarify for me when seduction becomes "grooming"? I am a bit confused by this term to be honest.

 

[shack]

Further to this conversation, can anyone clarify for me when seduction becomes "grooming"? I am a bit confused by this term to be honest.

I think that grooming would be "training a willing volunteer".

 

[y2kmark]

It's obviously aimed directly at Trump and the other members of his extended family. NYS wants to make damn sure that the Mir A Lago exile is permanent...

 

[onomatopoeia]

If she said no in the middle of the act, and he finished, then yes it is rape...

In your opinion, perhaps, but not in the eyes of the law.

 

[Jenesis]

In your opinion, perhaps, but not in the eyes of the law.

Really??? You might want to check the law books on that one

 

[onomatopoeia]

Really??? You might want to check the law books on that one

Please provide the name of ANY man convicted of sexually assaulting a woman who changed her mind after consenting to penetrative sex. There is an assumption that she was uninjured in the act.

 

[Jenesis]

Please provide the name of ANY man convicted of sexually assaulting a woman who changed her mind after consenting to penetrative sex. There is an assumption that she was uninjured in the act.

Being injured is not a prerequisite to being raped. Like seriously, if that is what you think then I don’t get why we would be continue to have an discussion.

If you and I are in the middle of having sex and I say stop, you have to pull out immediately. If you continue, even with one thrust, that is sexual assault.

I don’t care what you think, that is law. Any judge, cop, lawyer, prison guard, crown, paralegal, JP, law makers, legal professionals, etc will tell you that is law.

Now I don’t have access to all sexual assault records but you have access to the CCC so you quote the law book where it says that consent once given can not be withdrawn at any time. PS - You won’t find it.

 

[onomatopoeia]

Being injured is not a prerequisite to being raped. Like seriously, if that is what you think then I don’t get why we would be continue to have an discussion.

If you and I are in the middle of having sex and I say stop, you have to pull out immediately. If you continue, even with one thrust, that is sexual assault.

I don’t care what you think, that is law. Any judge, cop, lawyer, prison guard, crown, paralegal, JP, law makers, legal professionals, etc will tell you that is law.

Now I don’t have access to all sexual assault records but you have access to the CCC so you quote the law book where it says that consent once given can not be withdrawn at any time. PS - You won’t find it.

In other words, you are unable to provide the name of Any man convicted of sexually assaulting a woman who changed her mind after consenting to penetrative sex. Could you please copy/ paste the section of the Criminal Code that supports your definition of sexual assault?

I mentioned injury only because that is physical evidence of assault. A woman saying that she changed her mind in mid act is impossible to prove, in the absence of witnesses. No detective would even charge the man. Most likely, he'd advise the woman to exercise better judgement in the future. The #MeToo movement is not The Law.

 

[Jenesis]

In other words, you are unable to provide the name of Any man convicted of sexually assaulting a woman who changed her mind after consenting to penetrative sex. Could you please copy/ paste the section of the Criminal Code that supports your definition of sexual assault?

You ask for something impossible to get. And you know it. I’m not playing the game. How am I suppose to get that info when I don’t have access to conviction records anywhere. Come on man. If this is how you debate, again, there is no point debating with you.

A person can withdraw consent at anytime, including during the act. This is why women get sexually assault so much. Because guys like you think the way you do

• The complainant, having consented to engage in the sexual activity, expresses (by words or conduct) a lack of agreement to continue to engage in the activit

The CCC is huge to look through and gives more on the charges then the definitions but here is a link for you which clearly states the above. Read it.

https://www.edmontonpolice.ca/CrimePrevention/PersonalFamilySafety/SexualAssault/WhatIsConsent

Now you can either move on or post your proof to the contrary, but be warned - I’m done playing the games. Either have a real conversation or again - move on.

 

[onomatopoeia]

You ask for something impossible to get. And you know it. I’m not playing the game. How am I suppose to get that info when I don’t have access to conviction records anywhere. Come on man. If this is how you debate, again, there is no point debating with you.

A person can withdraw consent at anytime, including during the act. This is why women get sexually assault so much. Because guys like you think the way you do



The CCC is huge to look through and gives more on the charges then the definitions but here is a link for you which clearly states the above. Read it.

https://www.edmontonpolice.ca/CrimePrevention/PersonalFamilySafety/SexualAssault/WhatIsConsent

Now you can either move on or post your proof to the contrary, but be warned - I’m done playing the games. Either have a real conversation or again - move on.

Click here to read the Criminal Code of Canada

The Edmonton Police Department website is not the Criminal Code of Canada.

I've asked you two specific questions, and you haven't answered either yet. You have, however, provided much supplemental information that is essentially irrelevant.

The link to the Criminal Code contains sublinks to different sections. You can use Edit -> 'Find on this page' to look for key words. My credibility is not at issue here, but yours is.

 

[Jenesis]

Click here to read the Criminal Code of Canada

The Edmonton Police Department website is not the Criminal Code of Canada.

I've asked you two specific questions, and you haven't answered either yet. You have, however, provided much supplemental information that is essentially irrelevant.

The link to the Criminal Code contains sublinks to different sections. You can use Edit -> 'Find on this page' to look for key words. My credibility is not at issue here, but yours is.

if you know how to look it up, prove your side. At least I provided something. You have provided nothing. You said one thing. Withdrawing consent is not law. Then you add the request for a name. Like whatever. You said it was not law and I am proving it was. Period.

My credibility is never an issue here. I have proven myself over and over again. Prove me wrong and I will say I’m wrong. Put up something, anything. You can’t. I provided a link to something that assists my side of the debate. So put up or shut up.

Or ask @mandrill. He is a lawyer. He can tell you I’m right. Consent can be withdrawn at anytime. That is it. EOD.

 

[Ceiling Cat]

How many women have slept with men for promotion, opportunities or to marry wealth? If this law is passed then it will be tested in the courts on some unfortunate boob in test cases later to be ignored just as the Nordic Model is ignored in the Scandinavian countries now.

There was a case of a 28 year old Vietnamese guy that had sex with a 17 year old ( white girl ) with her consent. Two years after they started seeing each other he mentioned a news event that happened that could probably not be recalled vividly by someone under 20 year old. The girls mother had him checked out and found out that he was more than 10 years older than her daughter. The mother wanted him charged with statutory rape, she claimed that she was deceived when he did not disclose his age to the girl. The case did not go anywhere since the girl stated that she gave her consent and did not even want him charged. The guy paid in lawyers fee, reputation and lost time, even though the case was dismissed.

 

[Ceiling Cat]

I mentioned injury only because that is physical evidence of assault. A woman saying that she changed her mind in mid act is impossible to prove, in the absence of witnesses. No detective would even charge the man. Most likely, he'd advise the woman to exercise better judgement in the future. The #MeToo movement is not The Law.

This is another opportunity for psychotic, angry or frustrated women to take revenge on men. I have known personally of three cases where women have had men charged with assault in relationships that have gone bad and two cases where in a divorce situation where the women claimed the children had been molested by the father. All five cases were dropped, but not before in all five cases the men were processed through the system and three had to spend time in jail.