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Deceiving Your Sex Partner Would Be a Crime Under New York Bill

Tomoreno

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If you're ever in New York and think of lying to get sex - think again!

Obtaining sex through "deception," "concealment," or "artifice" could violate consent.

A group of New York lawmakers is trying to redefine consent in a way that would make it a crime to be less than fully truthful with sex partners. Under the new proposal, antics now considered merely caddish or immoral—like lying to a prospective sex partner about one's relationship status, social standing, or future intentions—would count as criminal sexual misconduct.

Now in committee, Assembly Bill A6540—sponsored by Assembly Member Rebecca Seawright (D–New York City) and co-sponsored by three other Democratic lawmakers—would amend New York state's penal code to define consent as "freely given knowledgeable and informed agreement" that is "obtained without the use of malice such as forcible compulsion, duress, coercion, deception, fraud, concealment or artifice."

Sex through "forcible compulsion" is already considered rape in the first degree under New York law. The biggest change Seawright's bill would have is on the state's law against sexual misconduct.

A person becomes guilty of sexual misconduct if "he or she engages in sexual intercourse with another person without such person's consent; or he or she engages in oral sexual conduct or anal sexual conduct with another person without such person's consent." Thus, if consent is defined as sex obtained without any deception, concealment, or artifice, anyone who lies to or omits information from a prospective sexual partner would be guilty of sexual misconduct (a class A misdemeanor).

This could open the floodgates of criminal prosecution (and civil suits) involving any number of wrong but incredibly common situations among sexual partners. Telling a prospective sex partner that you're single when you're actually married or in a relationship would seem to fit the bill. So, too, would trying to get laid by professing more interest in a future relationship than one actually has.

Women could be guilty for lying about contraceptive use or menstrual cycles, and men for lying about having a vasectomy.

Trying to win over a date by saying you have a better job than you actually do, live in a nicer place, or went to a better school could become a crime if that date sleeps with you. Any half-truths—or even omissions—about your social or financial status could possibly count as artifice or "concealment." So could lying or concealing information about one's race, ethnicity, religion, etc.

Someone might try to sue or press charges based on the idea that makeup, Botox, boob jobs, and similar measures to enhance one's appearance should count as illegal artifice that negates consent. It also seems likely that people could attempt to use the law against transgender or gender non-conforming people.

The New York bill isn't the first time lawmakers have tried something like this; for a while, there's been a consistent but marginalized attempt to make "rape by deception" or "rape by fraud" crime. For instance, a New Jersey legislator attempted in 2014 to criminalize "an act of sexual penetration to which a person has given consent because the actor has misrepresented the purpose of the act or has represented he is someone he is not." (The attempt failed.)

But "'rape-by-deception' is almost universally rejected in American criminal law," as Yale University law professor Jed Rubenfeld noted in the 2013 article "The Riddle of Rape-by-Deception and the Myth of Sexual Autonomy."

As UCLA law professor and blogger Eugene Volokh noted back in 2010, it's only a crime here in very specific circumstances:

Note that under American law, sex for which consent is procured by a lie is generally a crime only (1) when the fraud relates to the nature of the act (i.e., the defendant claimed he was a doctor who was going to medically examine the woman's genitals, or perhaps even administer a medical cure by having sex with her), or (2) in some states, when the defendant impersonated the woman's husband. There was a proposal last year in Massachusetts that would have generally criminalized rape by fraud, and I blogged about it here; but to my knowledge it didn't go anywhere. And while a few American rape statutes might already criminalize sex procured through false statements (or provide as to crimes generally that "assent does not constitute consent if … t is induced by force, duress, or deception"), I know of no cases applying those statutes in the typical lying-to-get-sex case.

Will New York change that?

Seawright apparently hopes so. "The proper definition of consent in New York's laws will clarify lawful sexual conduct, guide behavior, and make it possible to hold sexual predators accountable," she said in a statement.

Seawright's measure is being championed by two women, Tarale Wulff and Dawn Dunning, who testified at Harvey Weinstein's rape trial last year. "In part of Harvey's final statement at his sentencing, he commented that he felt confused, and he thinks that most men are confused. So by defining this consent, there will be no more confusion," Wulff told ABC News. The change would "make sexual assault crimes…easier to prosecute," Dunning said.

It's hard to see how adding all sorts of new layers to the definition of consent, and vague new ways to violate it (what exactly is artifice in this context?), will make things less confusing. There's no doubt, however, that it would make it easier for law enforcement to define people as sex offenders and attempt to prosecute them.

When will people learn that defining a broader and broader category of behavior as sex crimes doesn't actually help stop sexual assaults or increase justice, it just funnels more people into the criminal justice system and creates new opportunities for law enforcement harassment, discrimination, and abuse?

 

Tashki

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Sounds like the lawmakers are also trying to redefine the meaning of rape as well to fit their agenda.
 
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kherg007

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Eeks. I think only health related issues should be subject to any laws (sti status, pregnancy/contraception, etc.).

Knew a bloke dated a lady she said she could not have kids but got preggo w triplets. Then when he was helping her clear her old flat so as to move in with him he found discarded empty bottles of prescription fertility drugs in her bathroom rubbish bin. Given the date of the script, and that she lived alone, meant only 1 thing. He was a Dr making good $, she was a nurses assistant or something like that. The relationship did not last long after the birth of the kids, and she was later diagnosed a BPD and whacked/stupid enough that he got sole custody of the kids, and she had to pay him child support. But her failure to disclose should be a prosecutable offence.
(Ps despite her efforts to turn kids against dad as they were growing up, all 3 graduated from uni last year, employed, good kids, and all recognise their mum was whacked. Thus about as happy an ending as could be hoped).
 

mandrill

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The US is totally 19th Century about all sexual issues and getting worse.

I agree with using deception as to ID as a ground for rape - the classic "guy from the party sneaking into the bed of the half-asleep wife with the lights off and telling her that he's her husband" scenario. I'm not sure that any woman believes a doctor when he says sticking his dick in her is a cure for headaches anymore. Maybe in Alabama. Who knows?

And I agree w what the Canadian courts have done in making failure to disclose AIDS or another STD / STI as a ground of rape. Beyond that, it's all nuts to argue "deception" is a ground for a rape charge.
 
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shack

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What if I told her that I had a 12" cock? It's actually only 10".
 

IM469

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" Under the new proposal, antics now considered merely caddish or immoral—like lying to a prospective sex partner about one's relationship status, social standing, or future intentions—would count as criminal sexual misconduct. "

That would put a serious crimp on typical conversation from both sides of the fence in a strip club.
 

Jenesis

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I was just watching an episode of Law and Order and was going to post something similar


Guy works as a security guard for places. One is a University. He goes up to unsuspecting women he knows are touring the grounds with their children and tells them he is the head of the admissions committee. They then go on dates with him and eventually have sex with him thinking it’s going to help their kids get into the University.

The case ends up before the police when one woman finds out he had lied and they decide to charge him with rape. The grounds aren that she would not have slept with “Tom” the security guard. They did not consent to Tom the security guard. They gave consent to John the head of admissions.

I get they didn’t give consent to “Tom” but is getting played really the same as rape? Well no. Not in the context which we all think of rape. Violent, pinned down, physically forced. But “rape” is just one form of sexual assault. Giving INFORMED consent is important and in this “case” it was not informed. That was the argument

He plead guilty to some impersonation charge and the son of the woman who busted him and started the car, he jumped off their second story roof because of his embarrassment of his mother’s actions.

That is TV, this is real and I can see a lot of regret sex charges on both sides if this becomes law in the wrong way.
 

mandrill

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How is Tom different than the airline baggage clerk who shows a lady fake ID that he is an airline pilot making a $ half mill a year, instead of $35,000?

It's a slippery slope. If the baggage clerk is a rapist, how about the guy who promises a vacation in Cancun? Or the guy who gives a fake diamond engagement ring? It'll never end.

The Supreme Court of Canada went through all this and said: "Just no. No. We're not doing this. Just no."
 
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Jenesis

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How is Tom different than the airline baggage clerk who shows a lady fake ID that he is an airline pilot making a $ half mill a year, instead of $35,000?

It's a slippery slope. If the baggage clerk is a rapist, how about the guy who promises a vacation in Cancun? Or the guy who gives a fake diamond engagement ring? It'll never end.

The Supreme Court of Canada went through all this and said: "Just no. No. We're not doing this. Just no."
That was one of the points that was brought up. You lie about your income and all of sudden you are a rapist. How does that work?

In the show, because they need drama, he had an apartment and shit with a doorman calling him John, etc. Like he went ALL out in the deception.

Still wasn’t convicted of Rape. If I remember correctly, the plea deal came because the judge said he would overrule the jury if they convicted. I don’t know if judges can do that. But he said he would, he told the DA and the defendants lawyers to work it out and come back when it was done. So that was why the deal.
 
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kherg007

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I was just watching an episode of Law and Order and was going to post something similar


Guy works as a security guard for places. One is a University. He goes up to unsuspecting women he knows are touring the grounds with their children and tells them he is the head of the admissions committee. They then go on dates with him and eventually have sex with him thinking it’s going to help their kids get into the University.

The case ends up before the police when one woman finds out he had lied and they decide to charge him with rape. The grounds aren that she would not have slept with “Tom” the security guard. They did not consent to Tom the security guard. They gave consent to John the head of admissions.

I get they didn’t give consent to “Tom” but is getting played really the same as rape? Well no. Not in the context which we all think of rape. Violent, pinned down, physically forced. But “rape” is just one form of sexual assault. Giving INFORMED consent is important and in this “case” it was not informed. That was the argument

He plead guilty to some impersonation charge and the son of the woman who busted him and started the car, he jumped off their second story roof because of his embarrassment of his mother’s actions.

That is TV, this is real and I can see a lot of regret sex charges on both sides if this becomes law in the wrong way.
Spot on jenesis.
She told me she was going to medical school. Found that attractive. Turns out she was a English major with mediocre grades. Was I raped?
Said she was separated from her hubbie. Had a weekend fling. Hubbie returns from overseas. They continue married life.
Was I raped?
The mind boggles as to how this could be abused. And, in USA (unlike Oz) you get attorneys working on contingency thus teed up nicely for said abuse. (Versus in Oz, if you lose the civil case, you pay the other side's expenses). Eeks.
 
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luvyeah

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Politicians develop legislation to mitigate deception, how interesting.
You think they'll try and implement anything like this around obtaining votes?
 

kherg007

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Politicians develop legislation to mitigate deception, how interesting.
You think they'll try and implement anything like this around obtaining votes?
Yes, political ads would be a much better place to start. I could get behind that.
 
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y2kmark

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Wow this could end up getting many women into trouble. Imagine how many women can get busted for fake boobs and magic bras!!! Let alone lying about age or marital status.
Down with fake boobs!
 
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shack

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Down with fake boobs!
False eyelashes, botox, ass implants. Lucky that padded shoulders are no longer in style.

It sounds like a stoopid law.
 
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onomatopoeia

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Many of you may recall that William Kennedy Smith, (his mother Jean was a sister of JFK, RFK, and Ted), was tried and acquitted of rape in 1991. The pertinent facts, his version:

He met a woman in a Palm Beach, Florida bar. She accepted his invitations to visit the Kennedy compound, and they commenced consensual sex outdoors. In the middle of the act, he called her by the wrong name, and she decided she didn't want to continue. He finished. The lady claimed to have been raped because she changed her mind in mid act. I wonder, in today's climate, if he would have been convicted, based on identical facts and evidence?
 
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luvyeah

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Many of you may recall that William Kennedy Smith, (his mother Jean was a sister of JFK, RFK, and Ted), was tried and acquitted of rape in 1991. The pertinent facts:

He met a woman in a Palm Beach, Florida bar. She accepted his invitations to visit the Kennedy compound, and they commenced consensual sex outdoors. In the middle of the act, he called her by the wrong name, and decided she didn't want to continue. He finished. The lady claimed to have been raped because she changed her mind in mid act. I wonder, in today's climate, if he would have been convicted, based on identical facts and evidence?
He would have been done for.
This happens in colleges all the time.
Everything is about rape culture and #metoo #believeallwomen , even after the act, in some cases after the shame and regret people will claim they were raped.
Of course rape exists, but without evidence do we just convict every-time someone claims rape? It will always be a he said she said.
 

onomatopoeia

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He would have been done for.
This happens in colleges all the time.
Everything is about rape culture and #metoo #believeallwomen , even after the act, in some cases after the shame and regret people will claim they were raped.
Of course rape exists, but without evidence do we just convict every-time someone claims rape? It will always be a he said she said.
It's madness when someone can claim to have been sexually assaulted, based on their own subjective definition of the term, and their feelings. Sorry, but a woman has not been sexually assaulted if:

a) a man tells a dirty joke in their presence.

b) a man says 'shwing', when they wear provocative clothing.

c) a man looks at them with a lewd facial expression.

d) a man call them fat.
 
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