Cy Young and MVP Choices

[Ranger68]

NL: Easy choices (but probably not everyone will agree with them ) - Randy Johnson and Barry Bonds.

AL: Cy's easy - Johan Santana.
The MVP is up for grabs. Carlos Guillen? Ichiro? ARod? It'll probably be decided in the last month, but it's no cake-walk.

 

[shinjitsu]

NL MVP : Barry Bonds over A. Pujols, S. Rolen, E. Beltre.
NL CY : Jason Schmidt or R. Johnson over R. Oswalt, C. Pavano, R. Clemens
NL ROOKIE : Khalil Greene over A. Miles, J. Bay, A. Otsuka, C. Cordero

AL MVP : Vladmir Guerrero or M. Ramirez over M. Tejada, I. Suzuki
AL CY : Johan Santana or Mark Mulder over C. Schilling, P. Martinez
AL ROOKIE : Luke Ford over B. Crosby, J. Morneau, S. Takatsu, J. Frasor

Sorry for the 'or'

 

[ocean976124]

NL: Easy choices (but probably not everyone will agree with them ) - Randy Johnson and Barry Bonds.

AL: Cy's easy - Johan Santana.
The MVP is up for grabs. Carlos Guillen? Ichiro? ARod? It'll probably be decided in the last month, but it's no cake-walk.

Agree with you on everything but the AL MVP. It should be Manny Ramirez

 

[the_big_E]

I disagree about Bonds, I think Adrian Beltre deserves the NL MVP. Dodgers have a nice lead now in the west thanks to him, he's hitting .337 has 42 HRs, he should definitely get it.

The AL is a toss-up...right now I'd give it to ManRam or Vladdy. With the Yanks tankin, that hurts Sheffield whose been very good.

 

[Ranger68]

Re: Re: Cy Young and MVP Choices

Agree with you on everything but the AL MVP. It should be Manny Ramirez

No way should Manny get it. No way. His numbers aren't even league-leading where it counts, he plays a relatively unimportant defensive position, and plays it badly, and gets to hit half the time in Boston.

That would be an awful choice.

That having been said, he may very well win, and I really don't even know who *I'd* vote for, so you can't *really* disagree with what I said. ... Except that I wouldn't vote for Manny.

 

[Ranger68]

I disagree about Bonds, I think Adrian Beltre deserves the NL MVP. Dodgers have a nice lead now in the west thanks to him, he's hitting .337 has 42 HRs, he should definitely get it.

The AL is a toss-up...right now I'd give it to ManRam or Vladdy. With the Yanks tankin, that hurts Sheffield whose been very good.

Barry Bonds is putting up another offensive year for the ages.

I'm really sorry, but anyone who doesn't vote for Bonds doesn't know what they're talking about.

BA: Bonds .368 vs. Beltre .337
That's a big advantage.

OBP: Bonds .607 (!!!!!) vs. Beltre .385
Not only is this the all-time record, right now, as he's breaking his own incredible mark, but Beltre's isn't anything special - 17th in the league.

SLG: Bonds .821 vs. Beltre .650
Another MASSIVE advantage.

Bonds absolutely crushes everyone in the NL right now. If he doesn't win, it'll be the biggest fuckup the voters have ever perpetrated.

 

[the_big_E]

Bonds has won it what 6 times already. What Beltre is doing is more impressive because it was totally unexpected. That probably isnt fair but I think it could sway some voters. Beltre is doing more for his team than Bonds.

 

[SaveFerris]

NL Cy Young: 1. J Schmidt; 2. R Clemens; 3. R Johnson; 4. R Oswalt; 5. Oliver Perez, Pitts;

- Randy - I love the guy, but with a .500 won-lost record, they won;t give it to him.

NL MVP: 1. B Bonds; 2. A Beltre; 3. A Pujols; 4. S Rolen; 5. J Thome;

- Cardinals' sluggers will split the vote; if Bonds had been pitched to as often as Beltre has, his stats would be monsterous compares to Beltre;

AL Cy Young: 1. J Santana; 2. M Mulder; 3. C Schilling; 4. Pedro Martinez; 5. T Hudson;

AL MVP: 1. V Guerrero; 2. G Sheffield; 3. M Ramirez; 4. M Tejada; 5. Michael Young, TEX;

-sluggers from losing teams generally get ignored;

Rookies: Not sure who qualifies as a rookie, so I wont touch this category, but if Cleveland's catcher Victor Martinez is still eligible then he wins the AL Rookie hands down;

 

[plyrs99]

SaveFerris is correct. look at bonds homers and rbi's, put them up against beltre's, then look at how many walks, intentional or not, the two of them have. bonds numbers are even more staggering when you do that. and that doesnt even begin to account for the amount of times he doesnt get walked, but gets absolutely nothing to hit. what bonds is doing, like him or not, drug-free or not, is absolutely unreal. so what he has won it 6 times, that is no excuse. michael schumacher is on his 7th world title, the last 5 in a row, so does that mean he should not be able to win his 6th, or 7th??? no way. if a guy is that good, until someone comes along to beat him, so be it.

as for the NL cy young, jason schmidt.

in the AL, vladdy guerrero should get it, but manny will probably win it anyways. as for the AL cy, either santana or mulder, either are deserving choices.

Plyrs99

 

[the_big_E]

I am not downplaying Bonds achievements/numbers by any stretch of the imagination. I just think Beltre should win.

 

[Ranger68]

Bonds has won it what 6 times already. What Beltre is doing is more impressive because it was totally unexpected. That probably isnt fair but I think it could sway some voters. Beltre is doing more for his team than Bonds.

How is Beltre doing more for his team than Bonds?
That's a totally ludicrous statement.
What Bonds is doing for his team right now might be unequalled in professional baseball history. If that's not the MVP, I think we should scrap the award.

 

[Ranger68]

NL Cy Young: 1. J Schmidt; 2. R Clemens; 3. R Johnson; 4. R Oswalt; 5. Oliver Perez, Pitts;

- Randy - I love the guy, but with a .500 won-lost record, they won;t give it to him.

Yeah, it's too bad he'll lose tons of votes over the IDIOTIC fascination with win-loss record. He's the best pitcher in the NL this year, and nobody's all *that* close.

AL MVP: 1. V Guerrero; 2. G Sheffield; 3. M Ramirez; 4. M Tejada; 5. Michael Young, TEX;

-sluggers from losing teams generally get ignored;

I wasn't predicting so much who would win - in which case, Ramirez has an excellent case - but who I thought deserved it. Not many of those guys are all that high up my list, but the top dozen or so guys are all pretty close, I think.

 

[the_big_E]

How is my statement ludicrous? The Dodgers are 5.5 games up on the Giants...Who's team is doing better, right Beltre's!

 

[Ranger68]

as for the NL cy young, jason schmidt.

in the AL, vladdy guerrero should get it, but manny will probably win it anyways. as for the AL cy, either santana or mulder, either are deserving choices.

Plyrs99

Vlady's in the mix, but I don't think he's separated himself from the rest of the sluggers everyone's going to vote for. I'd like to see Carlos Guillen get it, actually - very solid numbers, playing in a pitchers' park, playing an important defensive position reasonably well.

Comparing Johnson and Schmidt:
Johnson's pitched more games;
Johnson's pitched more innings;
Schmidt has averaged *slightly* more innings per start;
Johnson has more K's;
Johnson has more K's/IP;
Johnson has a distinctly better ERA - distinctly when you realize that Johnson's home park favours hitters by about 10% over Schmidt's home park;
Johnson has a better WHIP and BAA;
Schmidt has a better Win-Loss record.

The only thing in Schmidt's favour is the IP/start, which is a very narrow margin, and the Win-Loss record - something a pitcher has little control over.

I really wish the BBWAA - and some segment of the baseball fandom - would get over their sick fascination with Win-Loss record as a reflection of pitching ability. Johnson has distinctly better numbers than Schmidt this year - it's not really close. It's not the same as Bonds vs. the rest of the league, but it's clear, nonetheless.

 

[Ranger68]

How is my statement ludicrous? The Dodgers are 5.5 games up on the Giants...Who's team is doing better, right Beltre's!

You didn't say that Beltre's team was doing better than Bonds', you said that Beltre was doing more for his team than Bonds, which is a ludicrous statement.

 

[the_big_E]

dude you dont quit! he IS doing more for his team!

 

[Ranger68]

How? How, exactly, is he doing more for his team?
Because they have a better record? That's an indication of OVERALL TEAM QUALITY, not individual performance.
Tell me how Beltre is doing more for his team.
It's an idiotic statement, given Bonds' SEASON FOR THE AGES.
Dude.

 

[the_big_E]

I give up. If Beltre wins it, you have to eat your words.

 

[Ranger68]

Dude, can you read? I said I wasn't predicting who would win it, I was saying who I thought deserved it.

If the BBWAA vote for Beltre, they'd better not EVER vote for anyone whose team doesn't win their division.

This season by Bonds is one of the best in the history of baseball. I'm sorry, but if that doesn't earn him the MVP, somebody better spell out that the award isn't for the best player in the league - it's for the best player in the league on a winning team.

Thankfully, they don't vote that way very much.

Bonds is *HANDS-DOWN* the best player in the league this year. It's not his fault his team isn't leading the division - he's doing more to carry his team than anyone in baseball history, possibly.

 

[SaveFerris]

A couple of comments: first, regarding Vald Guerrero.....the reason he may win the MVP (especially if the Angels make the playoffs) is because of Anaheim's injuries this YEAR: Over the same time period (at least 2 months) the following starting hitters were injured for about 2 months: Troy Glaus, Garret Anderson, Darrin Erstad, Ben Molina; These are not fringe players, these are all middle oif the order hitters. Vlad continued hitting even when he could have been pitched around. That's why I rank him as high as I did.

Regarding the voters, did you hear that the guy from Chicago who didn;t have either Vernon Wells or Carlos Delgado on his MVP ranking last year got fired from voting from the awards. Good riddance! Delgado was the obvious MVP last year, not A-Rod, and voters like this idiot were the reason why the 2nd place MVP guy wound up winning.