Caught driving through red light

[Jasmine Raine]

I've had this conversation before with a friend who's a Toronto Cop with Traffic Services.

Here's the thing. The Highway Traffic Act doesn't doesn't specifically state how far you should pull into the the intersection when making a left turn. You have both the right to pull slightly ahead of the white line into the intersection, a car length ahead or even two car lengths ahead depending upon the size of the intersection.

You also have the right to remain behind the white line until there is a break in oncoming traffic under the green. But depending upon on how busy it is, you could be waiting forever, which is why it's common practice to enter the intersection when the light goes green, then make your turn during a break in traffic or after the light changes and last car comes through.

So you're sister-in-law is not wrong. Please make sure you tell her so.

So technically we are both wrong. She thinks it is a rule, and I think the rule is the opposite and apparently there are no dam rules!!!

LOL

I guess I learned what I did in defensive driving and assumed it to be law. My bad.

But for my defense, it was sooooooo long ago that I took the course, and now you have reminded me of how old I am, so I am leaving to cry now. Hahaha. :wink:

 

[GameBoy27]

So technically we are both wrong. She thinks it is a rule, and I think the rule is the opposite and apparently there are no dam rules!!!

LOL

Funny that!

I guess I learned what I did in defensive driving and assumed it to be law. My bad.

Regarding defensive driving, here's a couple things I always tell drivers.

#1. Keep wheels pointed straight. When you're making a left turn, always keep your wheels pointed straight ahead until you initiate your turn. The reason being, if you get rear-ended with your wheels pointed to the left, you will get pushed into oncoming traffic, which is bad, very bad.

#2. The S-Approach. The driver turning left turns the wheels of the car sharply to the left as they enter the intersection then straightens them as they ready themselves for the turn. This positions your car to the far left of the turning area, making it much easier to see oncoming traffic. Plus, as above, in case of a rear-end collision, the wheels are pointing straight ahead, so your car would be pushed forward into the intersection, rather than into oncoming traffic.

But for my defense, it was sooooooo long ago that I took the course, and now you have reminded me of how old I am, so I am leaving to cry now. Hahaha. :wink:

Not to worry, that's what forums like this are for. Nothing wrong with learning a new trick or two, so to speak.

And don't worry, we're all getting older. The alternative to not getting older is much worse.

I found a couple articles which further explains what to do when entering an intersection to make a left hand turn.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/culture/commuting/when-turning-left-should-i-pull-into-the-intersection-to-wait-my-turn/article14205344/

http://drivinginstructorblog.com/q-should-i-pull-into-the-intersection-when-im-turning-left/

 

[GameBoy27]

Every insurer has different policies but most ALWAYS increase rates with 2 or 3 minor tickets in a 2 year period

Demerit point remain on your licence for 2 years from the date of the offence. Insurance companies will increase your rates sometimes after 2 but as you said, always after 3. Again, from date of offence. Unless you manage to fly under the radar. They don't check every policy holder's record every year.

Insurance companies aren't really concerned about the type of infraction. They count 45 km/h over the limit in a school zone the same as getting dinged for no left turn between 4PM-6PM at 5:55 PM. Aside from things like careless/dangerous/impaired driving, the rest all fall under "moving violations" and that's all they look at. It's a numbers game.

 

[basketcase]

Phone your insurance company and ask if it will increase your rate
...

Some speculate that even mentioning it to your insurance company will mean your rates go up.

 

[oldjones]

Give me a break. I don't think there's one person on this planet that hasn't been in that situation where your approaching an intersection, light terns amber and your the distance of "doing[sic] I go through or is it more dangerous for me to stop?" The light turns red just has you go through and think to yourself "I probably had time to stop". It happens to everyone.

I hope the JP gives you a break, The Comment Court of TERB can be tougher because we don't impose fines. First of all: The photo proves the car was unlawfully proceeding through the intersection against the red stop light. All you can argue is that you should be excused for some reason: I highlighted thinking that won't convince a real court to let you off.

You are required to stop when the light turns amber, same as if it turned red, UNLESS you cannot stop with safely. The amber-interval is timed for vehicles travelling at the posted speed to be able to stop safely. There are only a couple of reasons a driver cannot stop safely: You're already too near the intersection, or you're travelling too fast, i.e. over the speed limit. The second is bad driving just as much as cruising through the stop-light; learn your lesson and take your choice of tickets if that's your reason.

The only 'legitimate' excuse is being too close to stop, but since you are supposed to stop when you see it change, that only works if you time the amber light, and and prove it didn't give you, or anyone, enough time from where your car was (gotta prove that) travelling at your customary safe speed (gotta prove that too) as the light came on.

You could argue (but you haven't) that following traffic was tailgating and forced you through. However it would seem they managed to stop safely, unless they show up in your Redlight Camera image.

They didn't show up in mine.

 

[GPIDEAL]

Give me a break. I don't think there's one person on this planet that hasn't been in that situation where your approaching an intersection, light terns amber and your the distance of "doing I go through or is it more dangerous for me to stop?" The light turns red just has you go through and think to yourself "I probably had time to stop". It happens to everyone.

It's happened to me. One time I ran a red by mistake. I've seen others run red lights when I was perpendicular to them but I always look both ways to make sure nobody will fuck up. My friend's daughter got t-boned by a young dude who ran a red. Luckily nobody got hurt. He admitted to it. The insurance replaced the car but it was an uphill battle. Yes it's dangerous and we shouldn't take the chance.

 

[GPIDEAL]

Demerit point remain on your licence for 2 years from the date of the offence. Insurance companies will increase your rates sometimes after 2 but as you said, always after 3. Again, from date of offence. Unless you manage to fly under the radar. They don't check every policy holder's record every year.

Insurance companies aren't really concerned about the type of infraction. They count 45 km/h over the limit in a school zone the same as getting dinged for no left turn between 4PM-6PM at 5:55 PM. Aside from things like careless/dangerous/impaired driving, the rest all fall under "moving violations" and that's all they look at. It's a numbers game.

Insurance companies might increase your premiums even if you have no points but incur "moving violations". So speeding even though under the limit, can still raise your premiums.

 

[GameBoy27]

Insurance companies might increase your premiums even if you have no points but incur "moving violations". So speeding even though under the limit, can still raise your premiums.

Correct.

Demerit points are an MTO thing and have no bearing on your premium. Insurance companies only take into account "moving violations."

 

[GPIDEAL]

Correct.

Demerit points are an MTO thing and have no bearing on your premium. Insurance companies only take into account "moving violations."

I think getting points is worse and can raise your premiums quicker, but insurance companies got "smart" and now increase rates for no-pointers.

 

[TeeJay]

Insurance companies aren't really concerned about the type of infraction

They usually only care about infraction when you are at fault and get the ticket
In that case you are boned regardless of what the infraction was

 

[TeeJay]

You could argue (but you haven't) that following traffic was tailgating and forced you through. However it would seem they managed to stop safely, unless they show up in your Redlight Camera image.

They didn't show up in mine.

Most of the images I have seen are quite wide field of view
They usually give you 2 pics (one outside intersection while light is red, then one inside intersection while light is red)

If you ever were being tailgated unsafely the secondary car would always be visible unless a 3rd party obstructed the camera view (eg an 18 wheeler in next lane over)

 

[derrick76]

Why do you think you should fight it?

You did it. You would have seen the yellow and then the red and yet you chose to run the hard red.

Running reds is fucking incredibly dangerous.

Ask Venus Williams about that. What she wouldn't give to have that 1.3 seconds back.

Venus did not run a red light though.

 

[GameBoy27]

I think getting points is worse and can raise your premiums quicker, but insurance companies got "smart" and now increase rates for no-pointers.

Not true. Insurance companies take into account the number of "moving violations". Not whether there was points attached to the infraction. They've always increased rates for no pointers going back to when I got my licence when I was 16. And that was a while ago.

They usually only care about infraction when you are at fault and get the ticket
In that case you are boned regardless of what the infraction was

At fault suggests you were involved in a collision. That's different than receiving a ticket for a moving violation.

 

[GPIDEAL]

Not true. Insurance companies take into account the number of "moving violations". Not whether there was points attached to the infraction. They've always increased rates for no pointers going back to when I got my licence when I was 16. And that was a while ago.

Gameboy, as far as I understand it from discussions with brokers, non-demerit point moving violations used to affect your premiums only if you exceeded a threshold limit. I think as far as 5 years ago or so, they might have allowed you to incur 2 tickets within a 3 year period without penalty, save and except for demerit-point tickets.

NOWADAYS, I believe any moving violation affects your loss or claim history.

So the general advice is to fight ALL tickets for moving violations because it will affect your insurance premiums, whereas the previous rule of thumb was to fight only those tickets incurring demerit points (as it would affect both your driving record and insurance premiums).

 

[Mr. Piggy]

Demerit point remain on your licence for 2 years from the date of the offence. Insurance companies will increase your rates sometimes after 2 but as you said, always after 3. Again, from date of offence. Unless you manage to fly under the radar. They don't check every policy holder's record every year.

Insurance companies aren't really concerned about the type of infraction. They count 45 km/h over the limit in a school zone the same as getting dinged for no left turn between 4PM-6PM at 5:55 PM. Aside from things like careless/dangerous/impaired driving, the rest all fall under "moving violations" and that's all they look at. It's a numbers game.

Demerit points stay on your licence for 3 years. Been quite awhile since I had any points against me but that is what it always was and I don't think they have changed it.
I know my insurance company does a record check every year because that's how I found out about the points against my licence. Ticket was issued in Alberta and I didn't think points were involved with the charge, unsafe lane change. I had a car sitting in my blind spot and I thought he turned off so when I changed lanes I hit him. Turned out his licence sticker had been expired for 3 months, there was a cop car just ahead so Mr. Asshole sat in my blind spot. Ticket was $72 so I just paid it. Had I known 2 demerit points went with that I would have went to court. Insurance company added a 15% surcharge on my policy which stayed for 3 years.

 

[GameBoy27]

Demerit points stay on your licence for 3 years. Been quite awhile since I had any points against me but that is what it always was and I don't think they have changed it.
I know my insurance company does a record check every year because that's how I found out about the points against my licence. Ticket was issued in Alberta and I didn't think points were involved with the charge, unsafe lane change. I had a car sitting in my blind spot and I thought he turned off so when I changed lanes I hit him. Turned out his licence sticker had been expired for 3 months, there was a cop car just ahead so Mr. Asshole sat in my blind spot. Ticket was $72 so I just paid it. Had I known 2 demerit points went with that I would have went to court. Insurance company added a 15% surcharge on my policy which stayed for 3 years.

Demerit points stay on your record for 2 years from the offence date. It's been like that for the more than 35 years I've been driving.

It's possible your insurance company takes into account points accumulated on your licence but again, you were involved in a collision. So I assume there was some damage to one of the two vehicles, which means there was a claim.

When you call an insurance company for a quote, they ask how many tickets you're received in the last 3 years along with any claims you've made. They don't ask specifics or how many demerit points you have.

 

[TeeJay]

So the general advice is to fight ALL tickets for moving violations because it will affect your insurance premiums, whereas the previous rule of thumb was to fight only those tickets incurring demerit points (as it would affect both your driving record and insurance premiums).

Thats actually bad advice
If you got 2 tickets, pay one (plead down if possible right away) then fight second one

Often takes a year+ to even get to court, then another year to register with insurance (which by that time means first ticket has fallen off)

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Car insurance is the biggest scam around. If you get into an accident, and claim your damages, they will just raise your rate a year or 2 afterwards to make up their losses. And the vast majority of auto drivers never hurt someone else in a car accident, so liability is an even bigger scam.

But the gubberment says you have to have it, so its a gravy train for insurance companies

 

[Mr. Piggy]

Demerit points stay on your record for 2 years from the offence date. It's been like that for the more than 35 years I've been driving.

It's possible your insurance company takes into account points accumulated on your licence but again, you were involved in a collision. So I assume there was some damage to one of the two vehicles, which means there was a claim.

When you call an insurance company for a quote, they ask how many tickets you're received in the last 3 years along with any claims you've made. They don't ask specifics or how many demerit points you have.

You're right, it is 2 years the points stay on but three years to come off your driving record. That's what I was thinking when I wrote it earlier and put it down wrong. There was no claim when I hit that car because the guy had an expired licence sticker. It was when I was driving my truck and on the companies insurance not my car.

 

[GameBoy27]

You're right, it is 2 years the points stay on but three years to come off your driving record. That's what I was thinking when I wrote it earlier and put it down wrong. There was no claim when I hit that car because the guy had an expired licence sticker. It was when I was driving my truck and on the companies insurance not my car.

Points stay on your licence for 2 years from the date of offence. Insurance companies care about the number and severity of driving convictions a driver has within a 3 year period. Again, from date of offence.

This site spells things out quite well. https://www.thinkinsure.ca/insurance-help-centre/tickets-and-car-insurance-rates-in-ontario.html

Here's something I didn't know. "How do speed camera tickets affect insurance? They don’t as it is difficult to prove who was driving the vehicle. They are treated similar parking tickets and will not impact your insurance rates."