Casinos.. yay or nay?

Butler1000

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Good points

Now that I think of it, they are rather slow bringing your ' free' drink over


The cafeterias are in the back so you have to walk past the tables to get to them
so you will make a casual bet

I just thought of some more stuff
The stuff they do not do
No music is played
If music made you bet more they would play it . I am sure they studied it
Staff are friendly but trained in keeping conversations 'closed' as in not inviting a discussion
as you are supposed to bet not talk

I saw this documentary on Vegas cheaters

They actually want card counters to play 21 as most of them are bad at it .
It is a skill few can do as the cards are played too fast then they ban the few good players

If cheaters get caught with a cheating device they throw their cheating device across the room so now
the casino has to prove it was yours

Anyone can buy a slot machine and that is what the professional cheaters do to back engineer
them to see if they can beat them

The slot machines near the entrance pay out more to attract players that are walking by


The real big betters are called 'whales' as in big fish

They fly them in for free and I am sure they have all kinds of techniques to
keep them at their casino

Watch Casino movie. It is the staff that are the bigger concern when it comes to cheating


They hire the good cheaters to watch for cheaters


The shows are timed to get you back to the tables

George Carlin got banned for his criticism of betting
'They banned me for saying "fuck" on stage. Meanwhile, they got big Texans playing dice saying
'Oh shit I crapped", They fly them in for free then kicked me out for saying fuck. Fuck


Bottom line is stay away because no adreneline flows unless you bet more
than you can afford to lose
Um, no music is played? Dude have you ever been to Vegas? It's piped in everywhere. And as I said above, there are places that have dealers that double as go go dancers. The jackpot noises are always ringing. Lights everywhere from machines.

They want to create an upbeat atmosphere on the floor, a party atmosphere.

Cafeterias? These days it's all good, but expensive restaurants. Most used Covid to remove the buffets, some added food malls. A few hold outs remain. Or low rent casinos offer deals.

Cripes I love Carlin, but read the room dude!

As for stay or go, it's a paid experience. I can go, put 300 on a table, play at 10-25 bucks a hand and go 3 or 4 hours, have a half a dozen drinks, make 300, good conversation with the table. Great afternoon. Tomorrow's gambling paid for, dinner paid for.
Or hit a bad streak, gone in 15 minutes, back to the room. My average is usually after 5-7 days(my normal run there, not now, fuck Trump) up around 100-200 or so a day. But I'm disciplined enough to walk ahead when I see the losing streak happening. So realistically I play 8-10 hours a day. Some sports betting on the side(which I normally lose a bit at but was up the last time but about 150 so felt good), pays for all expenses, probably part of the room. And I enjoyed myself.

But people will pay thousands for a game, a concert, or other event. In the end, it's only "throwing money awsy" if it's something you don't enjoy in the first place, or had the expectation of winning.
 
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xmontrealer

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They use face recognition to spot banned card counters

As it is not illegal for them to be there they wear disquises
They also have dummies play bets through signals then the dummy leaves and another takes their place so to not arouse suspicion

The MIT team that created card counting each rented a different room to avoid being
spotted but security tracked the winning players to their rooms and noticed they all put MIT as their residence
Cant think of everything LOL

Face recognition to induce first timers to come back, interesting. Never heard of that
but if they spot a new potential whale letting them win a small amount sounds like an
intriguing play, nothing illegal in letting someone win but if that was discovered and the
whale came back and lost sounds like grounds for a lawsuit

This is just the stuff we know!
It is the stuff we do not know that should us keep away

While I seem to know a lot about casinos I have only gone a few times and have no intention of going
back or gambling in any form as I do not want the addiction
Gotta wonder how they let whales win at first.

I doubt it can be at Craps or Roulette, but some card game dealers are incredibly skilled at "sleight of hand", and can even manipulate the card draws from a shoe.
 

Butler1000

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Gotta wonder how they let whales win at first.

I doubt it can be at Craps or Roulette, but some card game dealers are incredibly skilled at "sleight of hand", and can even manipulate the card draws from a shoe.
Whales don't "win at first". They prenegotiate cash back on losses. For them it's about the rush of trying to beat the odds. The casinos will refund a big whale half of losses in some cases. To the casinos whether they take a Whale for 1 or 2 million is less important than the Whale returning 2 more times and losing a million each time.

Whales like the VIP treatment. Suites, private tables, assigned hosts, show tickets, even flights in and out. Its a status thing. At some point money is just a way of keeping score to these guys. And facilitating experiences.
 

Zoot Allures

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Um, no music is played? Dude have you ever been to Vegas? It's piped in everywhere. And as I said above, there are places that have dealers that double as go go dancers. The jackpot noises are always ringing. Lights everywhere from machines.

They want to create an upbeat atmosphere on the floor, a party atmosphere.

I recall no music but I have not gone much as I get bored fast. Jackpots lots of noise but they are separated from the tables

I have not gone in many years so my memory must wrong but, whatever,
no music or lots of noise it is all planned to get you to gamble
 
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Butler1000

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I recall no music but I have not gone much as I get bored fast.
I have not gone in many years and memory can often be wrong but, whatever,
no music or lots of noise it is all planned to get you to gamble
Yer gonna have to trust me on this one. They tamp it down a bit near the poker room so players can hear bets, and obviously in the sports/race books for games but other than that it's there.

They have done studies on houses for slots, noise levels. It's all about the dopamine hits. Humans get them on BOTH WINS AND LOSSES. Also about licensing movies, TV shows, pop culture figures for the games for familiarity.
 
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Zoot Allures

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There really isn't that much unknown for the casino world. Most of what's mentioned in this topic there's vids on YT.
I wonder about that. Gamblers think they know all the tricks but that is a conspiracy to keep you knowing the deeper psychology at play

If they are letting some whales and celebs who show up with money win a few times it's key. They know the crowd will big up and cheer the whale/celeb winning
That is interesting

Your best bet is one huge prearranged bet on one hand of 21. Odds are 51% for house, very close to even

WTF if you have two splits that you double down on so bring lots of money

Even if the house loses they win with the publicity
 

Zoot Allures

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Yer gonna have to trust me on this one. They tamp it down a bit near the poker room so players can hear bets, and obviously in the sports/race books for games but other than that it's there.

They have done studies on houses for slots, noise levels. It's all about the dopamine hits. Humans get them on BOTH WINS AND LOSSES. Also about licensing movies, TV shows, pop culture figures for the games for familiarity.
interesting. dopamine builds up as the cards are turned before outcome is known

Now that I think of it, games are probably measured for their dopamine effect
and that is evil
 

xmontrealer

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EDIT

Your best bet is one huge prearranged bet on one hand of 21. Odds are 51% for house, very close to even

WTF if you have two splits that you double down on so bring lots of money

Even if the house loses they win with the publicity
The odds on a single hand of Blackjack are far less than even. 42% the player wins vs. 49% the house wins. The remaining 9% is a tie, or "push".

The only thing that brings the odds on Blackjack down to 1.4% in favor of the house, at best, excluding card counting, is the 3 to 2 payout on Blackjack, intelligent splits, and the better than usual odds on double-downs, all played according to the guidelines in Basic Strategy. And some casinos offer the "surrender" option, where if your first two cards are as bad as say 16, and the dealer shows 7 to Ace, you can "surrender" your hand and get half your bet back, because your chances of losing that hand if you play it are quite high.

Also, the odds improve for the player if the dealer has to hit on soft 17, which is an ace/6 or an ace plus whatever cards add up to a soft 17.
 

xmontrealer

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EDIT

Your best bet is one huge prearranged bet on one hand of 21. Odds are 51% for house, very close to even

WTF if you have two splits that you double down on so bring lots of money

Even if the house loses they win with the publicity
Roulette is your best game for a single huge prearranged bet, especially in a European casino where the roulette wheel has only a single "0" vs. the American "0" and "00" which are automatic losses for the players.

Outside bet odds

Roulette bet typePotential payoutEuropean roulette oddsAmerican roulette odds
Red or black1:148.65%47.37%
Odd or even1:148.65%47.37%
High or low1:148.65%47.37%
Column2:132.4%31.6%
Dozen2:132.4%31.6%
 

Cardioguy

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Whales don't "win at first". They prenegotiate cash back on losses. For them it's about the rush of trying to beat the odds. The casinos will refund a big whale half of losses in some cases. To the casinos whether they take a Whale for 1 or 2 million is less important than the Whale returning 2 more times and losing a million each time.

Whales like the VIP treatment. Suites, private tables, assigned hosts, show tickets, even flights in and out. Its a status thing. At some point money is just a way of keeping score to these guys. And facilitating experiences.
I do have a second-degree friend who has been burning through large sums for the nearly 15 years I have known him, simply because he loves the high.
The perks/comps he and his entourage get to entice him to his regular spots in Vegas and the Bahamas is everything you would imagine.
As such, I have seen loss-rebates negotiated in the 10-20% range as you mentioned.

On one visit, I played a round at Shadow Creek with some associates and had an amazing caddy who had worked there for almost 25 years.
We hit it off and without naming names, he opened the dossier and shared with me some of the most outlandish requests guests have made over the years while on the property.
Needless to say, they included the kinds of things that make what is commonly discussed on this forum look trivial and often while still on the course!
 
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Zoot Allures

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The odds on a single hand of Blackjack are far less than even. 42% the player wins vs. 49% the house wins. The remaining 9% is a tie, or "push".

The only thing that brings the odds on Blackjack down to 1.4% in favor of the house, at best, excluding card counting, is the 3 to 2 payout on Blackjack, intelligent splits, and the better than usual odds on double-downs, all played according to the guidelines in Basic Strategy. And some casinos offer the "surrender" option, where if your first two cards are as bad as say 16, and the dealer shows 7 to Ace, you can "surrender" your hand and get half your bet back, because your chances of losing that hand if you play it are quite high.

Also, the odds improve for the player if the dealer has to hit on soft 17, which is an ace/6 or an ace plus whatever cards add up to a soft 17.

I agree with everything you have said . Playing 21 intelligently is the key and not hard to do

On the odds of winning on a single hand, regardless of potential payout , I see your point and I stand corrected
 
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Zoot Allures

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Nothing evil about measuring dopamine or using mice to test things out. Just using science for business purpose. But all companies globally should be required to put warning labels stating their product/service could be addictive along with causing cancer or birth defects. That way at least the consumer openly knows than to do their own research.
Yup, using consumer addiction is all part of the merry dance of captalism
but consumers should be warned


But it is evil if the goverment takes over casino rules under the pretense of controlling
gambling addiction and does not change the addiction effect of the games
 
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xmontrealer

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Yup, using consumer addiction is all part of the merry dance of captalism
but consumers should be warned


But it is evil if the goverment takes over casino rules under the pretense of controlling
gambling addiction and does not change the addiction effect of the games
Absolutely

Imho, government run casinos and lotteries are "reverse progressive taxation", as those who can least afford it are the ones whose percentage of earnings or investments are almost always negatively affected the most.

And the fact that the government actively promotes and advertises these forms of gambling is disgusting.

But, of course, the revenue the government receives from legalized gambling is irresistible to them...
 

xmontrealer

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They don't need to change addiction effects of games long as the people are told, which they are in terms of to play within their means same thing for buying lottery tickets. If people chose to shrug the warning then that's on them. Fast food has addicting chemicals and tons of people eat less or stopped as they got older, others still do eat it often. They don't need to stop addicting cancerous chemicals in that food long as there's some label on the product wrappers or at the store. These people would be out of business if they stopped their formulas. It's not a company's or government's job to make their product a lot healthier. People have the free will to do as they please. If the warnings similar to cigs decreases sales then so be it. Maybe OP will walk in and get addicted, maybe he won't. It's not the casino's fault if that happens when the government or users here warned him what could happen. I get where people are coming from in terms of making tons of stuff healthier or safer for the consumer, but that's not how capitalism or what not works lol. A warning is good enough. Addiction of any kind sucks including those who are in this hobby, but it's not the SPs fault if someone financially struggling takes loans out and spends it on her. She's not to blame. I've heard of some taking loans against their homes down in Orillia at the casino and committing suicide which sucks if those happened before all the warnings by the government were said. Anything after a warning should be on the individual themself. I haven't checked out any gambling apps nor care for them but I'm leaning towards most having a warning or at least informing the user to play within their means.
So why bother having speed limits in school zones, city streets, and highways. Why not just warnings, and let the driver decide how fast to drive?

The issue here is that whatever generates a lot of revenue for the government, whether it be tobacco taxes, alcohol taxes, or government run gambling, will be allowed, without regard for the well-being of whoever participates in those activities or buys those products. The only requirement is that the consumer be of legal age.

I don't know much about it, but I assume that if a certain chemical that is added to food products for any practical reason, but is sufficiently proven to be a carcinogen, such as Red Dye 3, the government will at some point ban it from use by in food production.

Here’s why Canada isn’t following the U.S. ban on Red Dye No. 3 in food and drinks
The artificial food colouring is used to make beverages, candies and maraschino cherries pop with colour.
ByDominik KurekInsidehaltoncom
Friday, January 17, 2025



Red dye No. 3 is used to make food and drink products such as maraschino cherries, candy, drinks and others pop with colour.
Kuiyibo Campos Pexels photo

The United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has announced it is banning red dye No. 3 in food, drinks and medicine.
What is red dye No. 3?
Red dye No. 3 is an artificial food colouring used in foods such as candy and maraschino cherries, as well as drinks, medicines and other products that pop with a red colour.

Is Canada banning red dye No. 3?
Canada, on the other hand, is not making such a move, at least not at this time.

U.S. food and drink manufacturers will have to stop using red dye No. 3, also known as erythrosine, by January 2027, while drug manufacturers have until January 2028.
On food labels, it may be labelled as FD&C Red No. 3, FD&C Red 3 or Red 3.

Why is it permitted in Canada?

Health Canada officials said red dye No. 3 does not present a safety concern to humans.
“Due to a legal provision called the Delaney Clause, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is required to ban food additives found to cause cancer in humans or animals. Two studies showed cancer in laboratory male rats exposed to high levels of FD&C Red No. 3 due to a rat-specific hormonal mechanism which does not exist in humans, thereby triggering a requirement for the FDA to ban FD&C Red No. 3. This is a legal requirement in the United States,” Health Canada said via email.
“Studies in other animals and in humans did not show these effects, and claims that the use of this colour in food puts people’s health at risk are not supported by the available scientific evidence.”
Health Canada also pointed to the Joint United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization/World Health Organization Expert Committee on Food Additives, which re-evaluated the safety of the food colouring as a food additive in 2018 and concluded it does not present a safety concern.
“The expert committee considered toxicological studies in experimental animals that assessed end points such as systemic toxicity, genotoxicity, carcinogenicity and reproductive/developmental toxicity, as well as studies that summarized observations in humans,” Health Canada said.

“Health Canada reviewed the expert committee’s re-evaluation and concluded that FD&C Red No. 3 does not pose a health risk to the general Canadian population at the levels set out in the list of permitted food colours.”
Health Canada added that if new scientific data becomes available which shows red dye No. 3, as an ingredient in food or drugs, poses a human health risk, it will take action to mitigate that risk — including no longer permitting its use.

Sylvain Charlebois, professor and researcher of food distribution and policy at Dalhousie University, said another difference between Canada and the United States is that Canada has a limit to how much of it can be used in a product while the U.S. does not.

Health Canada’s list of permitted food colours shows red dye No. 3 is limited to no more than 300 parts per million.
While there’s no ban planned in Canada, Charlebois points out Canadian food, drink and drug manufacturers will be required to stop using red dye No. 3 in products destined for the U.S.

What products is red dye No. 3 used in?
While not all brands and food manufacturers use red dye No. 3, here’s a list of some of the types of products that it may appear in, according to various media reports:
  • Candies such as dyed marshmallows and candy corn
  • Baked goods such as cakes and cupcakes
  • Frozen desserts such as ice pops, freezies or strawberry ice cream
  • Toaster pastries
  • Frosting
  • Fruit products such as fruit bowls or fruit cocktails
  • Pudding
  • Beverages such as sodas, fruit-flavoured drinks and strawberry milk
  • Protein shakes
  • Bacon bits
  • Sausages and vegetarian meats
  • Cough syrups
  • Gummy vitamins
You can read the FDA decision on its website.
 

bonesofallmen

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I was just having some drinks with a friend and he said that he went to the casino over the weekend and 81 close to $600 playing blackjack and roulette and he said the most nights he hits a nice profit

So I’m gonna take $500 and see what I can do

any ideas or tips on what games to try that have the best odds of winning?
Totally new at this
My honest advice is very straightforward. You're new to the experience, so split your money up into however many games you're interested in.
Let's say you split your 500 into 150 x 3,and have 50 left over for drinks or whatever.

Pick the three games that genuinely interest you the most - let's pretend that's Blackjack, Roulette and Slots.
Play the 150 at the minimum that you possibly can, this way you'll get the most playtime and have a better idea of what you actually like the most if you choose to come back.

I'd recommend that if you strike it lucky on any of the three and make a decent profit, put aside your initial 150 and play with the rest for fun to see what your risk might win you. At least that way you might come out even.

As an example, say you're up from 150 to 250 on blackjack and you're enjoying it - put aside 150 and play the remaining 100 aggressively, gambling is always more fun the higher the reward. If you lose the 100, oh well, you had fun. You could get lucky and double it again, who knows.

If you spend 450 for a night of fun with your friends and get real play time with each, you won't regret it. If you walk away with even 150 of the initial stack as a newbie, you've come out alright lol just don't make the mistake of hitting an ATM because you're feeling lucky. Play only what you came with.

Let us know how it goes for ya bud, if you're a good luck charm we might have to join ya on your second attempt haha. Godspeed.
 
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SchlongConery

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As I was collecting my belongings the boxperson who was an older gentleman looked over at me and said, "So how did you do tonight?".
I looked down and after a short pause told him that I was not entirely sure but likely not great as it looked like I may be about even.
He winked at me and said in an almost hardened tone, "Son, you're a winner tonight!".

The moment and message have stuck with me.
C'mon tell us the truth... it's an anonymous forum!

When you said you "looked like I may be about even" he winked at you and said to himself 'suuuuuure you are buddy'...and then said to you "Son, you better stay away from the poker table, you are a a lousy bluffer! But the Boss thanks you for your donation!" 😜
 
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SchlongConery

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But it is evil if the goverment takes over casino rules under the pretense of controlling
gambling addiction and does not change the addiction effect of the games

THIS is the core reason for my disgust with the Gov't and the dirty whores* who work for the OLG.

*Apologies to the skankiest scam artists and bbf5 cum dumpster crack whores on Leolist for lumping them into a worse group of scam artists.
 

Cardioguy

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While I am a firm believer in capitalism and its free market, there is the odd time when an example of such concerns me.
Like the proliferation of online casinos and sports betting.
Virtually the entirety of our civilization has large groups that struggle deeply with the throes of addiction and mental health issues.
While I understand the arguments for its existence, this just adds fuel to the fire, particularly as it relates to our youngest people.
Another vice which will inevitably become another smoking-type public health epidemic for the next generation.
Governments rarely prioritize public health/well-being over economic interests when they compete with each other.
 
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Zoot Allures

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Imho, government run casinos and lotteries are "reverse progressive taxation", as those who can least afford it are the ones whose percentage of earnings or investments are almost always negatively affected the most.
Some very rich people lose way more than they can afford.
Think Phil Mickelson, the golfer, who joined the rival PGA tour for money
because he lost his fortune to gambling

At Woodbine they have a free addiction counsellor

He had nothing to do so we talked. His opinion was gambling was more escapism addiction than adrenaline addiction

I can definitly see AI becoming escapism that coroporations and politicians will use to keep
us docile. Every dream comes true with the 3D googles on

Now that I think of it, rock star groupies, celeb groupies, religious freaks, etc
are addicted to escaping their real lives

Turn the spotlight on yourself.

I escape through music, while far superior than gambling or drinking it is still escapism


Now that this thread has got me thinking, TERB can be an escape
Some TERB members escape through sex addiction
 
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opieshuffle

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Whales don't "win at first". They prenegotiate cash back on losses. For them it's about the rush of trying to beat the odds. The casinos will refund a big whale half of losses in some cases. To the casinos whether they take a Whale for 1 or 2 million is less important than the Whale returning 2 more times and losing a million each time.

Whales like the VIP treatment. Suites, private tables, assigned hosts, show tickets, even flights in and out. Its a status thing. At some point money is just a way of keeping score to these guys. And facilitating experiences.
Go check out a low budget film called "Owning Mahowney" with Philip Seymour Hoffman and Minnie Driver. (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0285861/) Edit: he was great. She was terrible doing a "Canadian accent".
But it follows a trues story of a Canadian banker who gambled the bank's money becoming a whale. Slow burn but not bad.
 
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