Casinos.. yay or nay?

[xmontrealer]

Minimum bet. Black Jack started at 5 minimum then up to 10 then up to 20 etc as the night wore on

Gamblers wanted the minimum tables as they were packed so the casino , it seemed to me, would raise the minimum until they were not packed then lower it as the crowd left to keep them packed because the casino does not want to lose the gamblers who refuse to play the $50 tables but they start the night at $5 to get you in and once in you are not leaving so you play the $20 table

You can lose a lot quick at $20 minimum at a table where they limit seating
so the dealer can go faster and people bet more often. That is all thought out.

They even got an automatic shuffling machine because it is quicker than
letting the dealer shuffle so that means more bets are played

The main job of that guy who walks around watching is to
keep the bets going and make sure the assembly line keeps moving at top speed

I thought the idea of the government controlling gambling was to stop
over betting but when I was in Vegas there were always a $5 minimum table
to play at so WTF??

As the women served the table drinks to keep you from getting up and going to the bar (lost casino $ if you did) , I thought it would be a great idea to have topless waitressess as that would pack customers
in as the babes would all have the most amazing breasts as the tip $$$$ would be too hard '
to resist but, then again, the casinos want your eyes on the tables

The tables, the slots that make those musical sounds that are so alluring with their light show, etc are all at eye level and the rugs are ugly so you do not look down and that is just the subliminal stuff I noticed that keeps you spending

Oh yeah, there was a sign that warned you to bet with your head not over it
What a pointless sign. You have to bet over your head IE bet money you do not wanna lose as otherwise it is not fun

Disgusting indeed

There are no clocks in Vegas casinos, and almost never outside windows.

There was a rumour that the A/C would pump extra oxygen into the casinos to keep people energetic and at the tables for as long as possible.

Also the free drinks from the busty cocktail waitresses would take a while to arrive, and more than once in Vegas I lost money by waiting for my "free drink" to arrive...

 

[Butler1000]

I normally go to Vegas once a year(not now, the USA won't be seeing my tourist dollars for awhile). I have a few simple rules for those trips.

I set a loss budget every day for gambling, and that's it for that day, even if I'm up at the tables. I use winnings to pay for meals etc. Hit my limit, I find something else to do. There is lots to do, and I don't have a clock.

If it ain't fun, you shouldn't be gambling. This is so important. It's supposed to be fun, with a bit of dopamine hits(you get them btw from winning AND losing). So the minute you are hunched over, grumbling at the dealer, pissed at other players, say WTF to yourself, get up, and walk away. Don't chase loses. Get a drink, get a meal, go back to your room, flip on the TV, or your computer(I take my laptop). Watch something that will put you in a better mood. Take a nap. A workout even. Whatever it is that will even you out. Then when you are calm again, you can go back.

Alcohol is free. But mix in a free water with every order.

I actually never play between about 5pm and midnight now. I usually sleep then. It's the worst time for bad players, trying to get something to eat etc. Day time has lower minimums, more local players, better dealers. Just my experience. 3 am has a fun vibe. Gamblers specials in restaurants, and a clientele that is a show in itself.

In Vegas, the strip just sucks now. A few places that are fun to play now are the Cortez and Golden Gate in the Freemont st area. Easy vibe, low table stakes all the time. GG has dealers that double as go go dancers on raised platforms at night. So eye candy galore.

On the other end I recommend the Southpoint. Huge casino, 14 restaurants all good, and still reasonably priced. Great sports book and poker room(lots of local sharks but beatable). A real gem.

Good luck!

 

[Zoot Allures]

There are no clocks in Vegas casinos, and almost never outside windows.

There was a rumour that the A/C would pump extra oxygen into the casinos to keep people energetic and at the tables for as long as possible.

Also the free drinks from the busty cocktail waitresses would take a while to arrive, and more than once in Vegas I lost money by waiting for my "free drink" to arrive...

Good points

Now that I think of it, they are rather slow bringing your ' free' drink over


The cafeterias are in the back so you have to walk past the tables to get to them
so you will make a casual bet

I just thought of some more stuff
The stuff they do not do
No music is played
If music made you bet more they would play it . I am sure they studied it
Staff are friendly but trained in keeping conversations 'closed' as in not inviting a discussion
as you are supposed to bet not talk

I saw this documentary on Vegas cheaters

They actually want card counters to play 21 as most of them are bad at it .
It is a skill few can do as the cards are played too fast then they ban the few good players

If cheaters get caught with a cheating device they throw their cheating device across the room so now
the casino has to prove it was yours

Anyone can buy a slot machine and that is what the professional cheaters do to back engineer
them to see if they can beat them

The slot machines near the entrance pay out more to attract players that are walking by


The real big betters are called 'whales' as in big fish

They fly them in for free and I am sure they have all kinds of techniques to
keep them at their casino

Watch Casino movie. It is the staff that are the bigger concern when it comes to cheating


They hire the good cheaters to watch for cheaters


The shows are timed to get you back to the tables

George Carlin got banned for his criticism of betting
'They banned me for saying "fuck" on stage. Meanwhile, they got big Texans playing dice saying
'Oh shit I crapped", They fly them in for free then kicked me out for saying fuck. Fuck


Bottom line is stay away because no adreneline flows unless you bet more
than you can afford to lose

 

[dotdotdot69]

Good ol George Carlin! My all time fave comedian. Dissed uneducated Americans with comedy gold and destroyed mythology and religion.

 

[IRIS]

But if you are a new player in the casino the chance to win is higher because they want you to come back and lose more money. They use their face recognition system .

 

[Zoot Allures]

But if you are a new player in the casino the chance to win is higher because they want you to come back and lose more money. They use their face recognition system .

They use face recognition to spot banned card counters

As it is not illegal for them to be there so they wear disquises
They also have dummies play bets through signals then the dummy leaves and another takes their place so to not arouse suspicion

The MIT team that created card counting each rented a different room to avoid being
spotted but security tracked the winning players to their rooms and noticed they all put MIT as their residence
Cant think of everything LOL

Face recognition to induce first timers to come back, interesting. Never heard of that
but if they spot a new potential whale letting them win a small amount sounds like an
intriguing play, nothing illegal in letting someone win but if that was discovered and the
whale came back and lost sounds like grounds for a lawsuit

This is just the stuff we know!
It is the stuff we do not know that should us keep away

While I may seem to know a lot about casinos I have only gone a few times and have no intention of going back or gambling in any form as I do not want the addiction

 

[GeeBee]

Should I have a time limit in my head?
Like play half an hour and take a break sort of thing?

A time limit isn’t as important as a dollar limit. Take only what you’re willing to lose, and bring a bit of extra cash for food and drink.

Leave all your credit cards and debit cards at home, not even in the car, so you have no way of accessing any more $$ than you walked in with.

 

[Butler1000]

Good points

Now that I think of it, they are rather slow bringing your ' free' drink over


The cafeterias are in the back so you have to walk past the tables to get to them
so you will make a casual bet

I just thought of some more stuff
The stuff they do not do
No music is played
If music made you bet more they would play it . I am sure they studied it
Staff are friendly but trained in keeping conversations 'closed' as in not inviting a discussion
as you are supposed to bet not talk

I saw this documentary on Vegas cheaters

They actually want card counters to play 21 as most of them are bad at it .
It is a skill few can do as the cards are played too fast then they ban the few good players

If cheaters get caught with a cheating device they throw their cheating device across the room so now
the casino has to prove it was yours

Anyone can buy a slot machine and that is what the professional cheaters do to back engineer
them to see if they can beat them

The slot machines near the entrance pay out more to attract players that are walking by


The real big betters are called 'whales' as in big fish

They fly them in for free and I am sure they have all kinds of techniques to
keep them at their casino

Watch Casino movie. It is the staff that are the bigger concern when it comes to cheating


They hire the good cheaters to watch for cheaters


The shows are timed to get you back to the tables

George Carlin got banned for his criticism of betting
'They banned me for saying "fuck" on stage. Meanwhile, they got big Texans playing dice saying
'Oh shit I crapped", They fly them in for free then kicked me out for saying fuck. Fuck


Bottom line is stay away because no adreneline flows unless you bet more
than you can afford to lose

Um, no music is played? Dude have you ever been to Vegas? It's piped in everywhere. And as I said above, there are places that have dealers that double as go go dancers. The jackpot noises are always ringing. Lights everywhere from machines.

They want to create an upbeat atmosphere on the floor, a party atmosphere.

Cafeterias? These days it's all good, but expensive restaurants. Most used Covid to remove the buffets, some added food malls. A few hold outs remain. Or low rent casinos offer deals.

Cripes I love Carlin, but read the room dude!

As for stay or go, it's a paid experience. I can go, put 300 on a table, play at 10-25 bucks a hand and go 3 or 4 hours, have a half a dozen drinks, make 300, good conversation with the table. Great afternoon. Tomorrow's gambling paid for, dinner paid for.
Or hit a bad streak, gone in 15 minutes, back to the room. My average is usually after 5-7 days(my normal run there, not now, fuck Trump) up around 100-200 or so a day. But I'm disciplined enough to walk ahead when I see the losing streak happening. So realistically I play 8-10 hours a day. Some sports betting on the side(which I normally lose a bit at but was up the last time but about 150 so felt good), pays for all expenses, probably part of the room. And I enjoyed myself.

But people will pay thousands for a game, a concert, or other event. In the end, it's only "throwing money awsy" if it's something you don't enjoy in the first place, or had the expectation of winning.

 

[xmontrealer]

They use face recognition to spot banned card counters

As it is not illegal for them to be there they wear disquises
They also have dummies play bets through signals then the dummy leaves and another takes their place so to not arouse suspicion

The MIT team that created card counting each rented a different room to avoid being
spotted but security tracked the winning players to their rooms and noticed they all put MIT as their residence
Cant think of everything LOL

Face recognition to induce first timers to come back, interesting. Never heard of that
but if they spot a new potential whale letting them win a small amount sounds like an
intriguing play, nothing illegal in letting someone win but if that was discovered and the
whale came back and lost sounds like grounds for a lawsuit

This is just the stuff we know!
It is the stuff we do not know that should us keep away

While I seem to know a lot about casinos I have only gone a few times and have no intention of going
back or gambling in any form as I do not want the addiction

Gotta wonder how they let whales win at first.

I doubt it can be at Craps or Roulette, but some card game dealers are incredibly skilled at "sleight of hand", and can even manipulate the card draws from a shoe.

 

[dotdotdot69]

There really isn't that much unknown for the casino world. Most of what's mentioned in this topic there's vids on YT. All the slot machines are pretty much electronic and computer chipped now. They already know the outcome of wins/loses. I've never gone to Woodbine, but I've heard around the pandemic there were hardly that many winners compared to before. They probably did that on purpose to make funds due to things slowing down. Even if you're not some card counter but winning big they'll get you to leave. I think that happened with Dan White playing cards. Like the old saying goes the house always win. And there have been past slot winners who didn't actually win because there was an error in the program.

If they are letting some whales and celebs who show up with money win a few times it's key. They know the crowd will big up and cheer the whale/celeb winning until they start losing funds. Quite a few people with money like that ended up in bad situations. They just didn't know when to stop and the free perks easily entices people. They'll even consider flying you in for free and having people look after your family while there if needed. They understand the business.

 

[Butler1000]

Gotta wonder how they let whales win at first.

I doubt it can be at Craps or Roulette, but some card game dealers are incredibly skilled at "sleight of hand", and can even manipulate the card draws from a shoe.

Whales don't "win at first". They prenegotiate cash back on losses. For them it's about the rush of trying to beat the odds. The casinos will refund a big whale half of losses in some cases. To the casinos whether they take a Whale for 1 or 2 million is less important than the Whale returning 2 more times and losing a million each time.

Whales like the VIP treatment. Suites, private tables, assigned hosts, show tickets, even flights in and out. Its a status thing. At some point money is just a way of keeping score to these guys. And facilitating experiences.

 

[Zoot Allures]

Um, no music is played? Dude have you ever been to Vegas? It's piped in everywhere. And as I said above, there are places that have dealers that double as go go dancers. The jackpot noises are always ringing. Lights everywhere from machines.

They want to create an upbeat atmosphere on the floor, a party atmosphere.

I recall no music but I have not gone much as I get bored fast. Jackpots lots of noise but they are separated from the tables

I have not gone in many years so my memory must wrong but, whatever,
no music or lots of noise it is all planned to get you to gamble

 

[Butler1000]

I recall no music but I have not gone much as I get bored fast.
I have not gone in many years and memory can often be wrong but, whatever,
no music or lots of noise it is all planned to get you to gamble

Yer gonna have to trust me on this one. They tamp it down a bit near the poker room so players can hear bets, and obviously in the sports/race books for games but other than that it's there.

They have done studies on houses for slots, noise levels. It's all about the dopamine hits. Humans get them on BOTH WINS AND LOSSES. Also about licensing movies, TV shows, pop culture figures for the games for familiarity.

 

[Zoot Allures]

There really isn't that much unknown for the casino world. Most of what's mentioned in this topic there's vids on YT.

I wonder about that. Gamblers think they know all the tricks but that is a conspiracy to keep you knowing the deeper psychology at play

If they are letting some whales and celebs who show up with money win a few times it's key. They know the crowd will big up and cheer the whale/celeb winning

That is interesting

Your best bet is one huge prearranged bet on one hand of 21. Odds are 51% for house, very close to even

WTF if you have two splits that you double down on so bring lots of money

Even if the house loses they win with the publicity

 

[Zoot Allures]

Yer gonna have to trust me on this one. They tamp it down a bit near the poker room so players can hear bets, and obviously in the sports/race books for games but other than that it's there.

They have done studies on houses for slots, noise levels. It's all about the dopamine hits. Humans get them on BOTH WINS AND LOSSES. Also about licensing movies, TV shows, pop culture figures for the games for familiarity.

interesting. dopamine builds up as the cards are turned before outcome is known

Now that I think of it, games are probably measured for their dopamine effect
and that is evil

 

[xmontrealer]

EDIT

Your best bet is one huge prearranged bet on one hand of 21. Odds are 51% for house, very close to even

WTF if you have two splits that you double down on so bring lots of money

Even if the house loses they win with the publicity

The odds on a single hand of Blackjack are far less than even. 42% the player wins vs. 49% the house wins. The remaining 9% is a tie, or "push".

The only thing that brings the odds on Blackjack down to 1.4% in favor of the house, at best, excluding card counting, is the 3 to 2 payout on Blackjack, intelligent splits, and the better than usual odds on double-downs, all played according to the guidelines in Basic Strategy. And some casinos offer the "surrender" option, where if your first two cards are as bad as say 16, and the dealer shows 7 to Ace, you can "surrender" your hand and get half your bet back, because your chances of losing that hand if you play it are quite high.

Also, the odds improve for the player if the dealer has to hit on soft 17, which is an ace/6 or an ace plus whatever cards add up to a soft 17.

 

[dotdotdot69]

Nothing evil about measuring dopamine or using mice to test things out. Just using science for business purpose. But all companies globally should be required to put warning labels stating their product/service could be addictive along with causing cancer or birth defects. That way at least the consumer openly knows than to do their own research.

 

[xmontrealer]

EDIT

Your best bet is one huge prearranged bet on one hand of 21. Odds are 51% for house, very close to even

WTF if you have two splits that you double down on so bring lots of money

Even if the house loses they win with the publicity

Roulette is your best game for a single huge prearranged bet, especially in a European casino where the roulette wheel has only a single "0" vs. the American "0" and "00" which are automatic losses for the players.

Outside bet odds

Roulette bet type	Potential payout	European roulette odds	American roulette odds
Red or black	1:1	48.65%	47.37%
Odd or even	1:1	48.65%	47.37%
High or low	1:1	48.65%	47.37%
Column	2:1	32.4%	31.6%
Dozen	2:1	32.4%	31.6%

 

[Cardioguy]

Whales don't "win at first". They prenegotiate cash back on losses. For them it's about the rush of trying to beat the odds. The casinos will refund a big whale half of losses in some cases. To the casinos whether they take a Whale for 1 or 2 million is less important than the Whale returning 2 more times and losing a million each time.

Whales like the VIP treatment. Suites, private tables, assigned hosts, show tickets, even flights in and out. Its a status thing. At some point money is just a way of keeping score to these guys. And facilitating experiences.

I do have a second-degree friend who has been burning through large sums for the nearly 15 years I have known him, simply because he loves the high.
The perks/comps he and his entourage get to entice him to his regular spots in Vegas and the Bahamas is everything you would imagine.
As such, I have seen loss-rebates negotiated in the 10-20% range as you mentioned.

On one visit, I played a round at Shadow Creek with some associates and had an amazing caddy who had worked there for almost 25 years.
We hit it off and without naming names, he opened the dossier and shared with me some of the most outlandish requests guests have made over the years while on the property.
Needless to say, they included the kinds of things that make what is commonly discussed on this forum look trivial and often while still on the course!

 

[Zoot Allures]

The odds on a single hand of Blackjack are far less than even. 42% the player wins vs. 49% the house wins. The remaining 9% is a tie, or "push".

The only thing that brings the odds on Blackjack down to 1.4% in favor of the house, at best, excluding card counting, is the 3 to 2 payout on Blackjack, intelligent splits, and the better than usual odds on double-downs, all played according to the guidelines in Basic Strategy. And some casinos offer the "surrender" option, where if your first two cards are as bad as say 16, and the dealer shows 7 to Ace, you can "surrender" your hand and get half your bet back, because your chances of losing that hand if you play it are quite high.

Also, the odds improve for the player if the dealer has to hit on soft 17, which is an ace/6 or an ace plus whatever cards add up to a soft 17.

I agree with everything you have said . Playing 21 intelligently is the key and not hard to do

On the odds of winning on a single hand, regardless of potential payout , I see your point and I stand corrected