Blue Jays 2024

onomatopoeia

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Jul 3, 2020
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His numbers this year are almost identical to last year ...He's on pace for 79 runs, 24 HR and 92 RBI. ...
For argument's sake, let's assume that these numbers remain static/ average for the next five or ten years. His current salary is just under $20 Million/year, with one more year of arbitration.

How much is that amount of production worth? The difference between what he produces and what he costs is a player's true value. This is why you don't want to be stuck longterm with a player whose skills decline as his cost increases. Think Albert Pujols with the Angels, Miguel Cabrera with the Tigers. Those teams are still digging out from the lasting effects of paying top dollar for a Hall of Fame player in his twilight years. If Vlad Guerrero averages 24 HR, 92 RBI and 71 runs scored for the next seven years, He won't be a Hall of Famer anytime soon after that. Because he hasn't shown an inclination to want the most from himself, would you expect that attitude to improve significantly, if he knew he had 10 years guaranteed at big bucks, with little or no financial incentive to reach his full potential?

Players with his body type don't tend to have the longest career at the elite level. That extra weight he's carrying can't be helping his knees any, particularly playing on artificial turf.

A big problem for the Jays is that they have almost no talent on their roster who produce much more than they cost, and the Orioles have like, ten.

On April 2, 2012, Joey Votto signed a 10-year, $225 million contract extension with the Reds, which runs through the 2024 season. The deal included the two years that remained on his previous contract and pushed the total worth of the contract to 12 years and $251.5 million—the longest active deal in baseball at the time. The deal (including the one-year team option), was the 13th-largest deal in MLB history. (wikipedia)

votto-1.png

That contract was for 2015 -24, with the Reds buying out the 2024 option year for $7 Million.

Certainly Votto was worth every penny and more for the first three of those ten years, but he has only one REALLY good season after that, in 2021. Other than in the 2020 COVID-19 season, when the playoff pool was expanded, Joey saw no post season action during that contract extension. From 2014 - 19, the Reds averaged about 70 wins per season, and lost 100 games as recently as 2022.
 

Toronto Passions

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View attachment 343961

Macko's 23, and a left-hander. They tend to have a later career peak than a right-hander.

It's somewhat superficial to assess a prospect, based on minor league ERA alone. The quality of fielding and groundskeeping is lower at AA.

Consider the following, from the stats above:

1) Macko is in his first season of AA.

2) Macko is 1.6 years younger than the average age of players in AA.

3) He's averaging more than five innings per start.

4) He has 10 K's per nine innings, and a 3.07 strikeout-to-walk ratio.

5) 1.177 walks + hits per inning is All-Star caliber at the Major League level.

6) 9 hit batsmen in 77 1/3 innings pitched says he's not timid about pitching inside.

If he does turn out to be a star at the Major League level, and that's a big IF, be warned that I will rub your nose in a quote of #1,015.

View attachment 343963

It's nothing personal; strictly business.
.. and the Toronto Blue Jays traded a centre piece of their lineup and a humungous chunk of their offence for this. I have also always been a strong believer that the trading of Hernandez also damaged the development of Guerrero. I’m willing to bet the farm that the majority of Blue Jay fans could give a rats ass re what we got in return for the Hernandez deal.

This administration and all the supporters of it, have been entirely wrong and look where we are. They have managed to dismantle what the Jays naturally evolved into being, and they depleted the farm system in the process… for a last place team. There really is nothing to debate. A class-A organization is a bottom feeder this year. End of story.

Philip
 
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Toronto Passions

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You mean both of the supporters? :ROFLMAO:
Yeah, Onomatopoeia and Shapiro‘s wife. Those are the only two supporters of this regime. LMAO I’m only joking.

Philip
 

Ref

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I recall a time not too long ago when the Jays had a top 5 ranked farm system. The cupboards were depleted. And our top prospect can't seem to stay healthy for the past two seasons.
Minor league baseball players are probably the most hardest to predict from a skills perspective. It is a game where talented players can "lose it" in such a short period of time (even during a season). It is a very humbling sport and good scouts must be worth their weight in gold.

Recently watched "Trouble with the Curve", a cutesy story abut a grumpy old baseball scout (Clint Eastwood). A couple of things to note from that flick is how they portrayed the balance of "Analytics" and a scouts "Gut Instinct" (old school theme), and that Amy Adams is such a beautiful girl next door.

 

Ref

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Under the current management they have done what the fans wanted and most franchises shoot for.

They took over an aging but still good team at the end of 2015. The "Window" for that group to win it was 2, maybe 3 years. They came damn close as 2015 was the year they really should have won it all.

With the exit of Bautista, Donaldson, Eddy and company they had to rebuild around 2017. It usually takes 3 - 5 years to get there if everything works out. Four years later they had a 91 win ball club and missed the play-offs by one game (probably the best team of this rebuild effort - Solid offense similar to 2015). They had two more years of play-offs and it was evident that aside from stellar pitching, they could never put together a consistent hitting team.

Now they are close to being back to the level of 2017. They need to go in a different direction and build a new team.

The difference now is that Vlady & Bo are still good corner stones to build from.

As Toronto baseball fans, we have had a pretty good 10 year run with only a couple of bad years thrown in to the mix. There are a lot of bad teams in the MLB with fans who have suffered more than Toronto fans have.
 

shack

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If they bring up Votto, it will not be for his current skill set.

It will for no other reason than to sell tickets. There is no interest in this current team and attendance in the last 70 or so games is guaranteed to suffer.

The next question is how are they going to sell season tickets for next year?
 
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Toronto Passions

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So sad when the telecast commentators have now converted to openly discussing the Blue Jays being sellers at the trade deadline. Who goes where and the type of return they could bring based on their contract etc. etc. or how much help they could be for a contender……. completely mind-boggling how Ross Atkins appears to be the one that will make these moves.

Philip
 
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Insidious Von

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Vlady dislikes Atkins almost as much as Whitt Marrifield does, one of them has to go. If Atkins is secured until the end of the 2026 season, Vlady is gone.

 
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