Blue Jays: 2015 edition

[Dawgger]

Jays have to bring Thole back, even if it costs them a roster spot. Martin is struggling too much, and Dickey needs the comfort of his own personal catcher.

If Dickey needs his own catcher, package the two of them up and trade them quickly. A team carries 25 players, you can't carry a guy that isn't a starting pitcher that you can only use every 5th day. In effect you are carrying 6 starters, one of which can't pitch and the other hasn't been close to 'as advertised.'

I have no problem with Martin and Navarro as catchers. Martin is at worst, adequate when it comes to handling Dickey.

 

[Dawgger]

Which makes absolutely no sense.

By most standards if the Jays make the playoffs it will be considered a successful season so the only other teams whose records/performance are relevant to the Jays are those rat's ass worthy 4 teams.

Utter stupidity to not consider the opposition, unless of course the real fun is to be had by complaining in the absence of perfection. Of course we want to be better but it has to be considered in the context of the competition.

BTW, thanks for agreeing that the Jays are pretty much on par with the rest of the AL East, deficiencies and all.

And you provided your own proof as to why you should give more than a rat's ass about the other teams.

If the Jays could solve their pitching problems, it wouldn't be close! Starters inconsistent which overworks the bullpen.
Bats have bailed them out a few times and came very close a few more.
IMO if they don't get some serious pitching help, and they do make the playoffs, it will probably be one and done.

For the record, I said 'most on here', I did not include any of the other contributors that indicate they know what they are talking about, probably should have said many, rather than most!

 

[Ironhead]

We are paying for that hot streak now.
It is bad enough going 1-5 over the past week but throw in the two teams the Jays have played, both were struggling, and the rest of the ALE are not going so well themselves
and I just think where could we be now if ...
Like a lot of us are saying, got to get a starter. If the Jays had that absolute ace it would almost be over already. The rest of the ALE would be hoping to grab a WC spot.

 

[saxon]

7-0 for the Jays at this point. Good hitting and pitching so far today.

 

[mandrill]

The Toronto Blue Jays’ search for pitching has reportedly led them to a familiar name. Right-hander Jeff Samardzija is being “strongly pursued” by the Blue Jays, according to Bob Nightengale of USA Today.

The Blue Jays aren’t alone, as other clubs, including the Los Angeles Dodgers, have also told the White Sox they’re interested, according to Nightengale.

While Samardzija would undeniably help the Blue Jays, he’s merely one option for GM Alex Anthopoulos to consider. If the White Sox demand too much, the Blue Jays could look elsewhere for rotation help. It’s also possible the 36-43 White Sox will hold onto their trade chips and hope to make a second-half run.

“You look at us, and you say, wait a minute, this team will only be held down for so long,” executive vice president Ken Williams told USA Today.

The Blue Jays rank 14th among the 15 American League teams with a rotation ERA of 4.58. They’ve had trouble getting reliable production from starters beyond Mark Buehrle, who’s going to start for Toronto Monday when the Blue Jays open a four-game series against Samardzija’s White Sox.

Anthopoulos has publicly stated his interest in acquiring starting rotation help before the July 31 non-waiver trade deadline, so it’s no surprise to see the Blue Jays linked to Samardzija. They pursued him last summer, but refused the Chicago Cubs when they asked for Marcus Stroman and Drew Hutchison. Ultimately the Cubs obtained top prospect Addison Russell from the Oakland Athletics for Samardzija and Jason Hammel.

Samardzija is on track to hit free agency after the 2015 season, so the asking price should now be lower, especially because he has a 4.33 ERA in 116.1 innings spanning 17 starts with 97 strikeouts against 22 walks. To be fair, though, Chicago’s defence hasn’t helped; the White Sox rank last in baseball at converting balls in play into outs with a defensive efficiency of 67.7 percent. Advanced metrics such as FIP (3.50) and xFIP (3.75) suggest Samardzija’s ERA would dip with better defence.
http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/report-blue-jays-pursuing-samardzija-strongly/

Although I have to say - given Samardzija's numbers - is it going to make much of a difference?

 

[mandrill]

Baseball Prospectus has put up their list of Top 50 Prospects at the midseason point (subscription required) and there are 3 Blue Jays on the list: Daniel Norris (at #9, moving up from 34 on their preseason list), Jeff Hoffman (at #18, moving up from 73) and Dalton Pompey (at #25, moving up from 42). Number 1 on their list is Dodgers shortstop Corey Seagar.

About Norris they say:

After starting the year in the major-league rotation, Norris returned to Triple-A for further seasoning. While there was something of a hangover effect after being optioned, the 22-year-old is back to flashing the stuff that makes him one of the top left-handed prospects in the game. It's only a matter of time before the next opportunity in The Show presents itself. Expect Norris to put a stake in a rotation spot the second time around. - Chris Mellen

About Hoffman:

Heading into the 2014 college season, Hoffman was pegged as a potential 1:1 pick coming out of East Carolina, but Tommy John surgery derailed that plan and the Blue Jays picked up a potential premium talent much later than he should have been available. Finally back on the bump this summer, Hoffman has worked his fastball as high as 99 mph in the Florida State League, while both of his secondary pitches are flashing well. He still needs to display improved command and overall consistency if he is to reach his considerable potential, but Hoffman could quickly turn into one of the top pitching prospects in the game, if he's not already. -Mark Anderson

And about Pompey:

Pompey’s developmental track has been unusual, starting out slow before kicking into high gear last season. The Blue Jays took advantage of the momentum and rushed him all the way to the majors, his fourth level of 2014. It proved to be too much, too soon, but his skill set never wavered, even after struggles back in Triple-A. Now back where he belongs for the time being, Pompey is back to his versatile up-the-middle ways that should land him atop the Blue Jays lineup once he’s finally ready. –Jeff Moore

I'm pretty ready to see Norris come back to the rotation, it isn't like he could be worse than the guys they've tried filling in for Aaron Sanchez, but it seems like Felix Doubront will get the next shot at the job. In his last 5 games in the minors Norris has 26 strikeouts (just 1 in his last start) and 11 walks in 27.1 innings. I guess "couldn't be worse" is a bad reason to call someone up, but I wouldn't mind someone watching someone I think is going to improve.

I'm also close to where I'd like to see Dalton Pompey back. The shine is coming off Chris Colabello for me, though he's still been ok with the bat. Over the past 2 weeks Colabello is hitting .259/.286/.519, with 2 home runs, but the adventures in the outfield are wearing thin with me. It isn't Colabello's fault that he isn't an outfielder, but I'd just like to have Dalton's glove out there again. Pompey has hit .413 over his past 10 games at New Hampshire, with 2 home runs, 6 walks and 9 strikeouts.

Of course, since I don't want either of them up unless the team is willing to commit to them and play them for at least a couple of months and since my Jays can't seem to make a decision and stick with it, maybe it would be best if they wait before bringing them up. .

Hoffman has a 3.45 ERA in 9 starts at Dunedin. He's thrown 44.1 innings, allowed 47 hits, 14 walks and 27 strikeouts. Anyone want to fly down to Dunedin with me to check him out for a couple of starts?

http://www.bluebirdbanter.com/2015/...baseball-propectus-top-50-midseason-prospects

 

[AK-47]

Chris Sale..........oh dear

 

[Toke]

The problem is not Martin.

The problem is Dickey who has been everything but the ace they traded for... since when has a pitcher needed a personal catcher for his own comfort? Does he need a butler and a maid, too? Maybe a personal substitute to pitch for him? :frusty:

The BJ's have have one #2 (Buehrle), two #4's (Hutch and Estrada), and one #12 (Dickey, who does not even qualify as a #5!) pitchers... sorely needing an ace and a #3. The #3 could be Sanchez but I think he would be more valuable as a reliever this year.

Like the past 2 years, the BJ's show encouraging flashes but are unable to sustain a reasonable level of consistency. They are 8 & 10 (and on their way to 8 & 11) since their streak...

I don't wish to jinx them, but unless something happens with the pitching very soon they will head into the ASG under .500 and, if so, could very well repeat the post-ASG funk from last year... unless they get a new manager who can blend their obvious talents together.

I agree that they are very frustrating to watch because, with 1 or 2 exceptions, they obviously do have the talent...

The alternative is to just watch for those games in which they do put it together and simply forget about the post-season. :Cry:

And BTW, don't count Boston out just yet...

Perry

Gotta agree. Coming into this season, Dickey has performed near his career averages for the Jays. He had one great year and won a CY Young. Other than that, he's been a 3rd or 4th starter, statistically speaking. AA made the mistake of paying for him and promoting him as something he never really was.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/dicker.01.shtml

 

[shack]

Gotta agree. Coming into this season, Dickey has performed near his career averages for the Jays. He had one great year and won a CY Young. Other than that, he's been a 3rd or 4th starter, statistically speaking. AA made the mistake of paying for him and promoting him as something he never really was.

Performance aside, the hype of acquiring a Cy Younger along with the others definitely helped with ticket sales which helps the budget, i.e. Russ Martin, Donaldson's raise and maybe pay for an arm for the second half.

 

[mandrill]

Gotta agree. Coming into this season, Dickey has performed near his career averages for the Jays. He had one great year and won a CY Young. Other than that, he's been a 3rd or 4th starter, statistically speaking. AA made the mistake of paying for him and promoting him as something he never really was.

I think the deal with the 2013 Jays was that AA bought out every fire sale and yard sale he could find in the off season and hoped enough of the junk he bought would play at near optimum level to make a pennant run. Buehrle, Dickey, Josh Johnson, Melke, Reyes. Everybody except Buehrle was overpriced and / or broken. To AA, blowing a pile of $$$ made sense if you played the averages and wagered that a couple of those guys would play like stars and have you playing on October. Instead, all AA did was piss away our prospects in return for a last place finish.

 

[mandrill]

Buehrle is a decent top of the rotation starter. I mean, how many teams have a Kerzner or Felix - i.e. a true #1?!

Sanchez and Estrada have a ton of upside, but are not mentally tough enough to win the tough games, I suspect. Hutch is the same, plus he is even flakier. I think he might have gotten in touch with his inner Juan Guzman and that is not a good thing.

Dickey has no Plan B if the knuckleball isn't working on a given night. Then he just gets hit hard. His stats are awful.

Mentioning Juan Guzman, he was our #1 in the 93 WS year, IIRC. And so - without further ado - I rest my case. You CAN win it all with err, not that outstanding pitching.

 

[smitherz]

AJ Burnett just made the NL all-star team LOL Who would've guessed he'd have a longer career than Doc.

The Pirates are in the thick of it in the NL Central, and need offense to go with their elite pitching staff.
I think the Jays and Pirates line up well in a trade . F Liriano for EE and a mid-prospect probably gets it done. Liriano has 2 more years at $13million per

Additionally would anyone welcome Burnett back to the Jays? He's FA at the end of the season and likely wont' cost a top prospect. He's got playoff experience and seems to have aged better than wine. Averaged 200 innings the last 5 years. I think he'd get hammered in the AL east but can we wait for Dickey and Hutch to get it together? Collabello and a prospect might get it done.

 

[saxon]

Buehrle falls apart in the 8th. Shit.

 

[shack]

Buehrle falls apart in the 8th. Shit.

He should be able to get 4 outs in an inning without giving up runs.

 

[Dawgger]

Buehrle falls apart in the 8th. Shit.

That is not how I saw it. Reyes error was the cause. Please note he gave 0 earned runs! friggiin' defense was the problem

 

[saxon]

That is not how I saw it. Reyes error was the cause. Please note he gave 0 earned runs! friggiin' defense was the problem

He got the next two guys out after the error, to give up 3 straight runs with two out isn't acceptable.

 

[Dawgger]

He got the next two guys out after the error, to give up 3 straight runs with two out isn't acceptable.

are you saying the error is acceptable because no error no 3 hits. He pitched a hell of a game and should have won it 2-0. It wasn't pitching that lost it ,it was shoddy defense!

 

[saxon]

are you saying the error is acceptable because no error no 3 hits. He pitched a hell of a game and should have won it 2-0. It wasn't pitching that lost it ,it was shoddy defense!

Everybody makes errors. Good pitchers will pick up their teammates and get the job done. Either way I'm pissed they lost.

 

[jcpro]

That is not how I saw it. Reyes error was the cause. Please note he gave 0 earned runs! friggiin' defense was the problem

Reyes made 4 weak plays. The two last ones resulted in a loss. Too bad, it was quite a pitching duel and deserved a better finish.

 

[shack]

Everybody makes errors. Good pitchers will pick up their teammates and get the job done.

Every single time?