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Blame Biden

toguy5252

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2009
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You seem to have myopically locked in on DeSantis simply because he exercised his lawful right to veto a redistricting map. (And most likely you were stirred up by a headline.) Okay, so the end result was no Democrat voted for the map. However, you just choose to ignore the Illinois map which has no Republican support.

Additionally, DeSantis was transparent and said exactly why he put forth a different map. When Governor Pritzker of Illinois campaigned he said that he would veto a gerrymandered Congressional map. Of course, he broke his campaign promise.

You are applying selective ethical outrage. You don't like Republicans so you can clearly see their partisan ways, but you seem to be wearing rose colored glasses looking at Democrats.
It is not selective. It simply a blatant and very different example of a governor intervening in the process. Pritzker did not intervene and your complaint appears top be that he left it to the legislature which has the jurisdiction. I am not excusing Dem gerrymandering. I am against all gerrymandering.
 

Gooseifur

Well-known member
Aug 13, 2019
3,864
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You may be correct or it may be that the demographic make up of the districts changed. i have no idea. that in and of itself is not evidence of a political motive. I am not excusing Dems who also use gerrymandering. That still does not compare to a governor overruling a bipartisan map. That is quite different and DeSantis made no secret of his motives.
They are both political moves in both states.
 

Czar

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2004
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Its not investment. Previous to covid OPEC was cutting production so prices would go up. US shael needs higher prices to justify fracking while Canada needs even higher prices before the tar sands are economic.
Covid caused production to drop with demand, now demand is coming back but production is a bit behind, OPEC wants the higher prices and now Russian oil/gas is just being sold to China and a few other countries.
Investment in Canadian tar sands won't make them economic, investment in US shale will not drastically increase production either. Consumers want lower prices but oil & gas is happy with the profits.
They have all the money they need to invest but lower prices won't make them more money.
You are being lied to folks. Biden administration won't allow leasing for oil development. As a shareholder, why would I ever risk spending money on investment when the government is out to get you. I will take my dividends. Gas price now $2 per litre. Straight to my stock price.

“Unfortunately, this is becoming a pattern — the administration talks about the need for more supply and acts to restrict it,'' said Frank Macchiarola, senior vice president of the American Petroleum Institute, the top lobbying group for the oil and gas industry."

 

Gooseifur

Well-known member
Aug 13, 2019
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Simply stating that such is the case does not necessarily make it so.
I think I proved it with the article. Why do it otherwise? The demographics don't change that much in 2 years.
 

WyattEarp

Well-known member
May 17, 2017
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I've called people fleeing climate change from places like Guatemala 'climate refugees'. Its not a legal term, its a description of their situation as the term 'refugee' refers to people fleeing political troubles that make their lives dangerous. There is no other term that better describes that situation than 'climate change refugee', that I know of. If you have one, lets here.
Mandril has not used that term.
Don't worry Frank. It will be annotated that you posted the term "climate refugees" here first. I do think mandrill could not resist getting engaged in this "climate refugee" discussion last autumn (see below).

In any event, the Left seems to use different words when it is convenient. I tried to use your language to make a point that the United States has a high percentage of foreign-born residents and using your definition many of them are refugees.. It was a simple point backed up with statistics.
 
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WyattEarp

Well-known member
May 17, 2017
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You're talking nonsense. First, I doubt that I supported Frank using that term and if I did, it was only in the most casual sense and not the legal sense. One can call fleeing Syrians "refugees from civil war", but that is only a casual reference and has no relation to whether they technically fit within the UNCHR definition. The latter have the legal right to remain within the receiving country's territory; the former quite possibly do not, although their plight might be sympathetic. The USA has every legal right to deport very unfortunate and sympathetic people from Guatemala who are fleeing poverty and a high crime rate because those are not UNCHR grounds for establishing refugee status.........

The threat of famine and the battle for dwindling natural resources are increasingly being recognised as major factors in the exodus

'People are dying': how the climate crisis has sparked an exodus to the US

Central America is one of the world’s most dangerous regions outside a warzone, where a toxic mix of violence, poverty and corruption has forced millions to flee north in search of security.

Now, drought, famine and the battle for dwindling natural resources are increasingly being recognized as major factors in the exodus.

And it seems to be getting worse: 2019 was the driest year in a decade with only 65 days of rain, according to Guatemala’s National Institute of Seismology, Volcanology, Meteorology and Hydrology. Guatemala’s subsistence farmers depend on rainfall – which is increasingly erratic – and most lack alternative sources of water.

Around one million Guatemalans – 15% of the population – are currently unable to meet their daily food requirements, according to the World Food Programme (WFP).

Amid the growing threat of famine, almost 265,000 Guatemalans migrants searching for work, safety and food security were detained at the US southern border in 2019 – a 130% increase on the previous fiscal year.

Worsening hunger across the region is a factor in the rise in migrant caravans trying to reach the US overland, according to both analysts and migrants themselves.

View of crops and a forest on a hillside damaged by deforestation, pests and prolonged droughts in the La Ceiba Talquezal village in the municipality of Jocotán in eastern Guatemala. Photograph: Marvin Recinos/AFP/Getty Images
The caravans have been met with repression and hostility by Mexican and American authorities who accuse the migrants and refugees of political subversion and criminality.
I took excerpts above from the article you posted. I believe I took a quote from it and you felt it was important to post the entire article last autumn. If you weren't jumping on Frank's "climate refugee" argument, why get involved.

The real point is while you seem to have now locked in on the UNHRC legal definition for refugee, the word refugee is commonly used in many discussions and articles to make arguments about immigration.
 

y2kmark

Class of 69...
May 19, 2002
18,981
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Lewiston, NY
You are being lied to folks. Biden administration won't allow leasing for oil development. As a shareholder, why would I ever risk spending money on investment when the government is out to get you. I will take my dividends. Gas price now $2 per litre. Straight to my stock price.

“Unfortunately, this is becoming a pattern — the administration talks about the need for more supply and acts to restrict it,'' said Frank Macchiarola, senior vice president of the American Petroleum Institute, the top lobbying group for the oil and gas industry."

It's true that there are substantial costs in leaving some oil in the ground (or under the ocean). On the other hand, in 50 years technology may allow safer and more efficient extraction. Add it to the long list of basically short term solutions...
 

Czar

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2004
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Or they are happy with high prices and think that shale oil is close to peak.


The context?
Harper the 'economist' couldn't or didn't prepare for a recession and left the country with its biggest deficit.
Trudeau spent money to save lives and the economy in the face of a global pandemic.

One did nothing in the face of a shitstorm, and one did what was needed.
Weee....don't you love Trudeau spending endlessly to save us. Literally telling all the scammers to apply for CERB as people making it up would get paid too. Billions pumped out into the economy to frauds who spent it. Here is a little info backing up what I said. Pump money out and inflation gets worse.


The nightmare of inflation was made worse in Ottawa: Full Comment with Anthony Furey (msn.com)

You can thank Frankfooter when you discover your money doesn't buy nearly what it used to. Remember that in the next election and a failed actor who gets economic advice from a 16 year old girl is on the ballot again.
 

y2kmark

Class of 69...
May 19, 2002
18,981
5,407
113
Lewiston, NY
Weee....don't you love Trudeau spending endlessly to save us. Literally telling all the scammers to apply for CERB as people making it up would get paid too. Billions pumped out into the economy to frauds who spent it. Here is a little info backing up what I said. Pump money out and inflation gets worse.


The nightmare of inflation was made worse in Ottawa: Full Comment with Anthony Furey (msn.com)

You can thank Frankfooter when you discover your money doesn't buy nearly what it used to. Remember that in the next election and a failed actor who gets economic advice from a 16 year old girl is on the ballot again.
So Justin Trudeau is Biden's fault as well, or did this thread just get badly hijacked???
 
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Czar

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2004
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Food is up 9% and energy up 34%. Those are presently the two largest sources of inflation.
Government spending had nothing to do with those rises in prices, your argument is naive.
No, my arguments are bang on. Here is another example of the lefties in power letting nuclear power plants close. One in Michigan the other day and one in New York recently. Guess what, they are using more natural gas in New York as a replacement and energy prices have gone up significantly. Meanwhile blackouts are a serious threat. You can read about it below:
 

Czar

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Nov 19, 2004
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Newsom’s About-Face On Diablo Canyon Underscores Foolishness Of Indian Point Closure And Need To Save Palisades
Robert Bryce

Diablo Canyon Nuclear Plant might be saved from shutdown.

On Friday, California Gov. Gavin Newsom announced that he wants to prevent the premature shutdown of ... [+]

Maybe there’s hope for California after all. Yesterday, the Los Angeles Times reported that Gov. Gavin Newsom wants to intervene to save the Diablo Canyon nuclear plant from premature closure, which is slated to begin in 2024. While it can’t be known whether Newsom’s administration will be able to save California’s last nuclear plant, the announcement is a massive win for rational climate policy and the pro-nuclear movement in the United States.


But the timing is also bittersweet. It was one year ago today that the last reactor at the Indian Point Energy Center in Buchanan, New York was prematurely shuttered. Indeed, the possible rescue of Diablo Canyon underscores the criminality of the closure of Indian Point, a power plant that was both a marvel of technology (Emmet Penney calls nuclear plants our “industrial cathedrals”) and the single most important source of electricity for New York City.

The news from Newsom about Diablo Canyon also brings two other points to mind: Will federal and state officials be able to prevent the closure of Michigan’s 811-megawatt Palisades Nuclear Plant, which is slated to be prematurely shuttered at the end of May? And finally, it shows how little federal money – a mere $6 billion in funds from the Department of Energy – has been committed to keep some of America’s most important power plants online and pumping out zero-carbon juice.


In these pages on April 29, 2021, I wrote that the looming closure of the nuclear plant “should make anyone who cares about climate change, electricity prices, or the security of the electric grid even more cynical about our politicians and the ‘green’ groups who insist we must take urgent action to slash, or eliminate our greenhouse gas emissions. Indeed, cynicism, and lots of it, is the sensible response to the closure of Indian Point because it will result in dramatic increases in New York’s greenhouse gas emissions at roughly the same moment that New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo, New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio, climate activists, and top officials in the Biden administration are claiming that we need to quit using hydrocarbons.”

My prediction that New York’s electricity prices and greenhouse gas emissions would rise after the closure of Indian Point has been proven correct. An analysis done last year by Environmental Progress found that emissions from New York’s in-state electricity generation were 46% higher in the first full month after the closure of Indian Point than it was before the shutdown because gas-fired generators were used to replace the juice that was coming from the nuclear plant. Environmental Progress also found the state emitted “37% more carbon dioxide from electricity generation on an absolute basis.” The state’s consumers have also seen a huge increase in their electricity bills. According to one estimate, the cost of electricity in the metro New York City area in January 2022 was 20% higher than in January of last year. A key reason for the higher electricity prices: increased dependence on natural gas to produce electricity. As natural gas prices have increased over the past year, those increases have resulted in higher power bills.

Newsom’s comments about Diablo Canyon came just a few days after Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer called for federal funds to be used to prevent the closure of Palisades, which is owned by Entergy ETR +1% Corp., the same firm that owned Indian Point when that plant closed. As Tim Cavanaugh of the Mackinac Center recently explained, the potential loss of Palisades would deal a “traumatic blow” to Whitmer’s plan “to take the state to zero emissions by 2050.”
Cavanaugh also points out that Palisades produced about 7 million megawatt-hours in 2021. “Compare that with output from the 1,400 giant wind turbines that occupy large tracts of the state. A recent study from Commodity.com put Michigan on an honor roll of wind-powered states — for producing only 5.8 million megawatt-hours per year.” Thus, Cavanaugh said that by itself, Palisades is producing more electricity than all of the wind turbines in the entire state of Michigan. (Michigan, by the way, has also seen a significant backlash against the encroachment of wind energy projects. Numerous communities in the state have rejected or restricted new wind project development.)
Like Newsom, Whitmer is hoping to tap some of the $6 billion available in the Department of Energy’s Civil Nuclear Credit Program, which was created through the bipartisan infrastructure bill that President Joe Biden signed into law in November. In a letter to the Department of Energy, Whitmer said stopping the closure of Palisades was a “top priority” and that keeping it open will “allow us to shore up Michigan’s energy supply to prevent price spikes on working families and small businesses.”
I am all for keeping our existing nuclear plants online. But let’s also be clear: the $6 billion that could be used to keep Palisades and Diablo Canyon operating is a mere farthing when compared to federal tax credit gravy that’s being lavished on the wind and solar sectors. As I noted in a report for the Center of the American Experiment last year, between 2010 and 2029, federal tax incentives for the wind and solar sectors will total some $140 billion. And the wind and solar sectors are lobbying hard to get even more tax credits.
Furthermore, the wind industry’s production tax credit is the single most-expensive energy-related provision in the federal tax code. Not only that, but as I explained in these pages in 2020, the U.S. solar sector got roughly 250 times as much in federal tax incentives as the nuclear sector in 2018 when measured by the amount of energy produced. Coming in a close second is the wind sector, which got 158 times as much as nuclear.
As I said at the top of this piece, it’s not clear if Diablo Canyon (and Palisades) will be kept open. A myriad of details will have to be worked out regarding licensing and ownership. Nevertheless, many people deserve credit for getting Newsom to change his mind, including Michael Shellenberger, who’s now running for governor in California. Credit also should be given to people like Kristin Zaitz and Heather Hoff, the co-founders of Mothers for Nuclear, Gene Nelson and Carl Wurtz from Californians for Green Nuclear Power, as well as the group of scientists and activists who sent a letter to Newsom in February telling him to “reverse the decision” to close Diablo. (I have long advocated for keeping the plant open, including this piece in the Wall Street Journal last month.)
It might be cynical to point out that Newsom may simply be following the polling data. As Sammy Roth points out in his article in Friday’s Los Angeles Times, a recent poll found “that 39% of voters oppose shutting down Diablo Canyon, with 33% supporting closure and 28% unsure.” The same poll found that “44% of California voters support building more nuclear reactors in the Golden State, with 37% opposed and 19% undecided — a significant change from the 1980s and 1990s.”
But one of the most important lines in Roth’s article was a quote from Newsom, who “told the editorial board that reliable electricity is ‘profoundly important.’” Amen to that. Now begins the hard work of saving Diablo Canyon and Palisades from premature closure.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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No, my arguments are bang on. Here is another example of the lefties in power letting nuclear power plants close. One in Michigan the other day and one in New York recently. Guess what, they are using more natural gas in New York as a replacement and energy prices have gone up significantly. Meanwhile blackouts are a serious threat. You can read about it below:
You lost the argument so had to try to switch it to a discussion about nukes.
So sad.
 
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Czar

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2004
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You lost the argument so had to try to switch it to a discussion about nukes.
So sad.
I show a reason why energy prices are increasing due to stupid democrat policies in a thread discussing increasing costs and whether Biden/Democrats/similar are responsible for it and our fraud says I lost the argument. Folks, the green energy scam is going to cost you huge time. Think about that next time you vote. The left love these high prices, that is the whole reason for the carbon tax, to make it more expensive for you, which increases inflation.

But remember, next time it costs 100 bucks to fill your car....I lost the argument.
 

jcpro

Well-known member
Jan 31, 2014
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I show a reason why energy prices are increasing due to stupid democrat policies in a thread discussing increasing costs and whether Biden/Democrats/similar are responsible for it and our fraud says I lost the argument. Folks, the green energy scam is going to cost you huge time. Think about that next time you vote. The left love these high prices, that is the whole reason for the carbon tax, to make it more expensive for you, which increases inflation.

But remember, next time it costs 100 bucks to fill your car....I lost the argument.
Biden is on record being excited about the "transition " while the out of control energy prices are making regular folks poorer and pushing the wage crushing inflation to the new heights. Our governments have become the enemy.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
100,196
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I show a reason why energy prices are increasing due to stupid democrat policies in a thread discussing increasing costs and whether Biden/Democrats/similar are responsible for it and our fraud says I lost the argument. Folks, the green energy scam is going to cost you huge time. Think about that next time you vote. The left love these high prices, that is the whole reason for the carbon tax, to make it more expensive for you, which increases inflation.

But remember, next time it costs 100 bucks to fill your car....I lost the argument.
How are the democrats controlling the price of and quantity of oil sold by OPEC and Russia?
 

SeaGirth

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Jan 22, 2022
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I’m in a European country and they have a very appropriate name for the impotent old man running the USA…
Biden the Buffoon.
Totally appropriate. 😂
 

dirtydaveiii

Well-known member
Mar 21, 2018
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I’m in a European country and they have a very appropriate name for the impotent old man running the USA…
Biden the Buffoon.
Totally appropriate. 😂
Russia doesn't count as Europe. What did they call the orange clown that was universally ridiculed around the world ?
 
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