Bibi Wins, Two State Solution Dies?

[fuji]

Quebec is recognized as member by the UNESCO which is part of the UN

No it isn't. Quebec participates in UNESCO as part of the Canadian delegation. Canada has decided to give Quebec extra prominence within the Canadian delegation but Quebec is not a UNESCO member, they sit within Canada's delegation and the agreement for that is between Canada and a Quebec, not Quebec and UNESCO.

Here are the UNESCO members:

http://www.unesco.org/eri/cp/ListeMS_Indicators.asp

You will notice that Palestine is a member but that Quebec is not. That is because Palestine is recognized as a state by the UN, but Quebec is not.

You can't just make shit up!

 

[fuji]

GoWest, just stop making things up. It's pathetic. It is obvious you are just making things up as you go, and equally obvious that you know very little about this topic, about the UN, or about Israel or Palestine. Practically everything you posted is just false.

The Security Council DID NOT reject Palestinian statehood. It rejected Palestinian UN membership, which is something completely different than statehood. It certainly did not disagree with or over-rule or contradict the UN GA declaration of a Palestinian state.

It is just blatantly false that only the UN security council can grant statehood: Switzerland was certainly a state before 2002, as is the Vatican today. There is no such rule that only the UN SC can create states, you just wholesale MADE THAT UP. Moreover your whole "theory" that the UN SC serves as some sort of overlord countermanding the UN GA is just ludicrous. The UN SC has very specific responsibilities, laid out explicitly in the UN charter, like approving applications for UN membership, and most famously authorizing any use of force, but it is not in any way an overseer of the General Assembly.

The Prime Minister of Israel did not say there would never be a Palestinian state -- you are LYING about that, as has been repeatedly pointed out. He said it wouldn't happen while he was PM, which is only for a few years, and then he went on to say he supports the creation of a Palestinian State. And it's obvious it won't happen in the next few years he's just being factual -- Palestinians aren't currently even negotiating with Israel. But that doesn't mean it will never happen, and he didn't say it will never happen. Moreover it isn't even up to him -- it's up to the Knesset, of which less than a quarter are from his party.

Your point 4 is some sort of ridiculous attempt at logic based on a whole lot of falsehoods.

As for 5, even if the Palestinians don't create a state that DOES NOT mean that it will "stay part of Israel', particularly since it isn't part of Israel now. There are lots of other more likely things that could happen to that territory in the event it doesn't achieve independence and there is absolutely NO REASON to think that it would become part of Israel. More likely it would become part of Jordan, or Egypt, or wind up under some permanent UN oversight. Becoming part of Israel is just about the least likely outcome.

 

[fuji]

Another lie the text of resolution that was rejected doesn't mention anywhere membership issues, it`s just talking about ending occupation and granting full statehood..Sp the issue clearly is about getting a full statehood not membership
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ailed-Palestinian-UN-statehood-bid-means.html
And yes , the UN has power to create states, Israel was created by a UN resolution in 1947, Switzerland and vatican existed before the UN was created so your example is irrelevant
And you didn't answer my second question what kind of powers Palestinian authority has to be called a state, it doesn't have any power more than a canadian province has. are you talking about a state that has no army , no currency, no border control, whose population registry and taxes are controlled by another state

In fact the UN General Assembly did declare Palestine a state. That resolution has passed. The UN Security Council has passed no resolution on the matter one way or the other.

And it was the UN General Assembly, not the Security Council, that passed the resolution requesting that Britain partition the Mandate into Israel and Palestine.

You have been wrong on EVERY SINGLE POINT you tried to make. Your M.O. now is to ignore facts that prove you wrong and then come back later and pretend you didn't hear about them -- like the FACT that Netanyahu supports a two state solution. I have no doubt we will hear you repeating your lie that he doesn't later, just as you ignore all the facts.

As for powers, yes it clearly is an OCCUPIED state. That is why it is called occupied. You seem to be spectacularly unable to grasp the concept of occupation...

 

[fuji]

we have to forgive the Boers for the apartheid, they were afraid that blacks would come out of their reserves and slaughter them

Which was nonsense. On the other hand the Arabs have repeatedly fought racist wars of aggression with the explicit war goal of ethnically cleansing Jews. Not someone's imagination, the Arabs bragged about it. They thought they would win, and they were more than happy to tell the world what was going to happen to the Jews when they did. When they captured East Jerusalem they ethnically cleansed the Jewish Quarter of the city and they were quite proud to tour journalists around and brag about how they had cleansed it of Jews for the first time in 2000 years.

The PLO and Hamas have both stated that their aim is the destruction of Israel and the expulsion of Jews. It's not like they're shy about telling people what they intend to do. More recently Abbas and the PA may have become a bit shy, but they still openly state their goals from time to time. Hamas is a lot less shy and is pretty much explicit about their desire to ethnically cleanse the Jews.

So yes, that is their objective. They say so.

 

[fuji]

Yes but the security council didn't reject Israel statehood in 19947 which is very different from what the security council 3 months ago

But nothing: The General Assembly upgraded Palestine from a non-member observer to a non-member observer state. It is a state.

And the Security Council has not rejected that, in fact, has not passed any resolution at all. Failing to pass a badly written and misinformed resolution is not the same thing as rejecting statehood. Not at all. Rejecting statehood would mean passing a resolution saying statehood was rejected, and that has not happened. You are dishonestly misrepresenting a decision not to pass a resolution as a statement.

What the Security Council HAS done, oodles of times, is pass resolutions stating that the occupied territory is not Israeli territory and that a Palestinian state should be created there, through negotiations with Israel.

 

[Moviefan-2]

The prime minister of Israel said that he won't allow a state , so the security council won't grant them full statehood because the government of Israel doesn't allow it and therefore it will stay part of Israel.

The number of people who believe the West Bank and Gaza are part of the state of Israel: One -- GoWest8745.

Those who don't believe it: Everyone else on the planet.

I say we put it to a vote.

 

[Moviefan-2]

Netneyahu believes it
Naftalli Bennet believes it
Half a million of settlers living in the west bank believe it
Some officials in the Palestinian authority are starting to think about the one state option

Considering a one-state option is not evidence that they consider the West Bank and Gaza to already be part of the state of Israel.

As for Netanyahu, when did he say he believes the West Bank and Gaza are part of the state of Israel?

Let's see your source for that statement -- or for any of your assertions.

 

[Moviefan-2]

He said there will be no independent state there, therefore it will stay part of Israel.

The first part of your sentence is a misquote, but we'll let it go.

Show me where he said the West Bank and Gaza "will stay part of Israel."

 

[Moviefan-2]

If they aren't going to have a state, they will be part of which state then ?

Now, you're seeking my opinion.

I asked you to provide the source for your assertion that Netanyahu said the West Bank and Gaza are part of the state of Israel.

I already know your opinion. I want to see the source for your claim that Netanyahu holds the same opinion.

 

[fuji]

Netneyahu believes it
Naftalli Bennet believes it
Half a million of settlers living in the west bank believe it
Some officials in the Palestinian authority are starting to think about the one state option

Netanyahu does not believe it, liar. You keep making this claim despite having been given direct quotes from Netanyahu stating the opposite. You are just a liar.

I have noticed that most supporters of Palestinian terrorism are liars, too.

 

[fuji]

He said there will be no independent state there, therefore it will stay part of Israel.

Except it is not part of Israel now and he certainly doesn't believe it should be.

Just more if you blatant lies and misrepresentations. You are thoroughly dishonest.

 

[fuji]

This is not a personal opinion, this is maths:
So do your maths
1-There will be no independent state on those territories,according to Netenyahu
2-Jordan and Egypt don't want them
3-Which state is left ?
So we can conclude Netenyahu statements using maths from that the West Bank will stay part of Israel

Israel doesn't want them either. Why do Jordan and Egypt get exempted on that argument but not Israel? And what about UNRWA? It could administer the territory indefinitely.

You lost this argument ages ago but you just don't reply to the posts that refute you so that you can go on spewing.

You are clown, doing some sort of propaganda dance.

 

[bishop]

When Ahmadinejad who is not elected and who is just a figurehead says things detrimental to Israel, zionist supporters go ape sh*t and make a big show of it. When an elected Israeli leader says that there will be no 2 state solution publicly, then zionist supporters gloss over it and say he has no power and his opinion does not represent the will of the people. 100% Hypocrisy.

 

[fuji]

When Ahmadinejad who is not elected and who is just a figurehead says things detrimental to Israel, zionist supporters go ape sh*t and make a big show of it. When an elected Israeli leader says that there will be no 2 state solution publicly, then zionist supporters gloss over it and say he has no power and his opinion does not represent the will of the people. 100% Hypocrisy.

Statements by a dictator in a dictatorship are state policy. I gather you don't comprehend the difference between democracy and dictatorship, which explains a lot really.

 

[bishop]

Ahmadinejad is not a dictator, the guy with the big turban whatever he is called is the real dictator. What he says is maybe state policy, though it is state policy and not necessarily the will of the people. Now that Bibi is reelected, it is the will of the Israeli people that there be no 2 state solution, in a democracy the will of the people is the will of the state.

 

[basketcase]

...
3-Which state is left ?...

Their own.

They've been offered it before but since the majority of Palestinians reject a two state deal and even more overwhelmingly reject a egalitarian one state peace, how do you recommend proceeding?

 

[basketcase]

When Ahmadinejad who is not elected and who is just a figurehead says things detrimental to Israel,...

Considering how often official statements come out of Iran about destroying Israel and since they openly arm non-government militias dedicated to that goal...

Here's one just from yesterday.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/iran-militia-chief-destroying-israel-nonnegotiable/


And the fact that the Iranian president isn't truly elected is the problem. Iran's dictators could do whatever they want on short notice. An actual elected government has to follow due process.

 

[Moviefan-2]

1-There will be no independent state on those territories,according to Netenyahu

2-Jordan and Egypt don't want them

3-Which state is left?

None. That was easy.

 

[basketcase]

so that excuses Israel of denying them the right to return ?

Besides them (or more accurately their official representatives) not accepting the part about living peacefully.

More significantly there are only 50,000 or so actual refugees.


And what is your excuse for Lebanon, Syria, and the rest?

 

[basketcase]

I read another poll somewhere that says half of young palestinians...

Care to provide that poll?

I provided one from a major Palestinian polling organization that provides their raw data and methodology.

Palestinians don't want top be Israeli so your whole argument is idiotic.