'Astonishing bit of fake news' exposed in Canada

[danmand]

The experiments, which went on to 1952, were clearly in conflict with the Nuremburg code, agreed upon in 1946.


The Nuremberg Code - DIRECTIVES FOR HUMAN EXPERIMENTATION The Nuremberg Military Tribunal's decision in the case of the United States v Karl Brandt et al. includes what is now called the Nuremberg Code, a ten point statement delimiting permissible medical experimentation on human subjects. According to this statement, humane experimentation is justified only if its results benefit society and it is carried out in accord with basic principles that "satisfy moral, ethical, and legal concepts." To some extent the Nuremberg Code has been superseded by the Declaration of Helsinki as a guide for human experimentation. --"Permissible Medical Experiments." Trials of War Criminals before the Nuremberg Military Tribunals under Control Council Law No. 10. Nuremberg October 1946 - April 1949, Washington. U.S. Government Printing Office (n.d.), vol. 2., pp. 181-182. 1. The voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential. This means that the person involved should have legal capacity to give consent; should be situated as to be able to exercise free power of choice, without the intervention of any element of force, fraud, deceit, duress, over-reaching, or other ulterior form of constraint or coercion, and should have sufficient knowledge and comprehension of the elements of the subject matter involved as to enable him to make an understanding and enlightened decision. This latter element requires that before the acceptance of an affirmative decision by the experimental subject there should be made known to him the nature, duration, and purpose of the experiment; the method and means by which it is to be conducted; all inconveniences and hazards reasonably to be expected; and the effects upon his health or person which may possibly come from his participation in the experiment. The duty and responsibility for ascertaining the quality of the consent rests upon each individual who initiates, directs or engages in the experiment. It is a personal duty and responsibility which may not be delegated to another with impunity. 2. The experiment should be such as to yield fruitful results for the good of society, unprocurable by other methods or means of study, and not random and unnecessary in nature. 3. The experiment should be so designed and based on the results of animal experimentation and a knowledge of the natural history of the disease or other problem under study that the anticipated results will justif y the performance of the ex periment. 4. The experiment should be so conducted as to avoid all unnecessary physical and mental suffering and injury. 5. No experiment should be conducted where there is an a priori reason to believe that death or disabling injury will occur; except, perhaps, in those experiments where the experimental physicians also serve as subjects. 6. The degree of risk to be taken should never exceed that determined by the humanitarian importance of the problem to be solved by the experiment. 7. Proper preparations should be made and adequate facilities provided to protect the experimental subject against even remote possibilities of injury disability or death. 8. The experiment should be conducted only by scientifically qualified persons. The highest degree of skill and care should be required through all stages of the experiment of those who conduct or engage in the experiment. 9. During the course of the experiment the human subject should be at liberty to bring the experiment to an end if he has reached the physical or mental state where continuation of the experiment seems to him to be impossible. 10. During the course of the experiment the scientist in charge must be prepared to terminate the experiment at any stage, if he has probable cause to believe, in the exercise of the good faith, superior skill and careful judgement required by him that a continuation of the experiment is likely to result in injury, disability, or death to the experimental subject.

 

[danmand]

I posted the link. Now you've posted the entire article. The next step is for you to read it and understand it.

I am not aware of any other Canadian who have defended the experiments on the Residential school children.

The experiments were in clear violation of the Nuremburg code.

What are your views on Dr Mengele?

 

[Dutch Oven]

Is there a single child or mentally incapacitated human that actually believes you know what your talking about? Those things you mention have absolutely nothing to do with formal logic but do go on embarrassing yourself I find it entertaining like watching monekys at rhe zoo

Nonsense. Venn diagrams are employed to illustrate conclusions that may, may not be drawn from premises. Formal logic also explores common argumentative fallacies. You are proving that you have no education in formal logic.

 

[Frankfooter]

I am not aware of any other Canadian who have defended the experiments on the Residential school children.

The experiments were in clear violation of the Nuremburg code.

What are your views on Dr Mengele?

Dutch oven goes a few steps further than anybody else on this board.

 

[jcpro]

Dutch oven goes a few steps further than anybody else on this board.

Actually, what he is doing should be done by those involved in the "truth and reconciliation "- looking beyond the passions and tears of victim hood. We should go where data takes us, dispassionately and systematically. The Canadian government has already apologized and decided to reconcile. Now, it's the time for the truth- regardless what it is.

 

[y2kmark]

What are your views on Dr Mengele?

Playing Canasta with Juan Peron and Generalissimo Francisco Franco...

 

[dirtydaveiii]

Nonsense. Venn diagrams are employed to illustrate conclusions that may, may not be drawn from premises. Formal logic also explores common argumentative fallacies. You are proving that you have no education in formal logic.

LMAO...you Trumptards are all the same! You watch a you tube video and try to paraphrase a few things you find on a google search and suddenly your an expert. You have not the faintest clue on how to form a logical argument or what the difference is between inductive logic and deductive logic. Perhaps if you studied it and tried to understand it rather than taking a few terms out of context and hoping nobody will notice or call you on it, you would realize the errors in your thinking. Perhaps you should start with fallacies so you may understand how all your statements are regurgitations of intentionally deceptive and false arguments. If you understood logic you would see that virtually every story on Fox is full of straw man fallacies and slippery slopes, and that virtually all of the arguments posited are categorically false.

 

[Dutch Oven]

LMAO...you Trumptards are all the same! You watch a you tube video and try to paraphrase a few things you find on a google search and suddenly your an expert. You have not the faintest clue on how to form a logical argument or what the difference is between inductive logic and deductive logic. Perhaps if you studied it and tried to understand it rather than taking a few terms out of context and hoping nobody will notice or call you on it, you would realize the errors in your thinking. Perhaps you should start with fallacies so you may understand how all your statements are regurgitations of intentionally deceptive and false arguments. If you understood logic you would see that virtually every story on Fox is full of straw man fallacies and slippery slopes, and that virtually all of the arguments posited are categorically false.

Did you finish your philosophy degree? Can I safely assume it was an undergraduate degree?

Here's a nugget for you to chew on. If all Trumptards watch YouTube videos, and most YouTube videos provide correct information, do most Trumptards have the correct information? C'mon, put your wizardry on display!

How about this one? If someone doesn't watch much Fox, but claims to be able to criticize the accuracy of Fox programming, how much reliance can we put on their criticism?

Last one (just because your absurd claims are so much fun). If someone claims all the statements made by a poster are fallacious, but they have not reviewed all of those statements, how much reliance should we put on their claim?

I think you've forgotten more about reasoning, critical thinking, and formal logic than you ever knew!

 

[dirtydaveiii]

Lets examine the load of horseshit in the Bolt report

1 - Dr. Beaulieu a seasoned anthropologist whom was trained to use GRP at the Canadian forces base in Borden, used the technology to find and excavate WWI interment sites in Canada and has received numerous awards worldwide. She more recently used this technology and expertise to determine that there were bodies buried at residential schools.
2 - Thousands of residential school children were missing and some gravesites have been at residential schools
3 - none of the 215 bodies at the residential school in Kamloops were exhumed

Therefore there are no bodies of residential school children buried in Kamloops or any other site in Canada.

 

[dirtydaveiii]

Did you finish your philosophy degree? Can I safely assume it was an undergraduate degree?

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www.full-stop.net

 

[Dutch Oven]

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www.full-stop.net

Mark Twain was both funny and witty, but his quips aren't to be taken literally. Sometimes you have to argue with stupid people. For example, when someone falsely accuses you of a crime. Further, sometimes its just amusing to argue with stupid people, in the same way as it can be amusing to read a bizarre novel. It's an encounter with a strange and irrational element that exists in the world. Why do you think I exchange with you?

Comedy makes you think, but it isn't intended to tell you how to think or live. Add comedy to the list of things you don't understand.

 

[Frankfooter]

Here's a nugget for you to chew on. If all Trumptards watch YouTube videos, and most YouTube videos provide correct information, do most Trumptards have the correct information? C'mon, put your wizardry on display!

Well, when you study at Trump U, this is to be expected.

 

[bver_hunter]

Nothing but massive confusion on your part. Like the Griswald ball of Christmas lights. I don't have the energy. Your problem is that you don't understand what you have read, or perhaps how to read between the lines.

One small example. All the media has done is reported - correctly - that investigators believe they may have found gravesites that were unmarked. However, these investigators are using technology that is not as accurate as actually exhuming the sites, and therefore may prove to be in error to some degree, large or small. The accurate truth will be known if the graves are all exhumed. I have yet to hear that there is firm plan to do so. However, the media then trips themselves up by reporting the conclusions that native activists have drawn, as if the factual premise has already been proven (which it hasn't) (nevermind the logical leaps you need to get there, even on the purported facts.)

There are records of death for children in these schools. For one thing, the schools had to submit records to get funded by the government (even Liberals don't pay for empty schools!). It defies credulity that parents were not informed of the death of their child (as long as the family could be identified, which could prove challenging in some cases for reasons having nothing to do with federal government).

It may be fair to ask, or to postulate a position about:

1. Were children properly cared for in these schools (at least to the standards of the day and of the community they lived in)?
2. Were children better off for the education they received, or worse off?
3. Were there better (and reasonably achievable) alternatives to delivering education to native children?
4. Were gravesites tended to reasonably (according to the standards of the time and of the community)?

The first question is a health care question, not a cultural one. The second question is an evaluation of the program, talking into account costs AND benefits. The third is an honest evaluation of the scope of the problem being addressed, and what the reasonable alternatives were (not just the preferences of one stake holder group). The last concerns the dignity afforded to the dead, but in the context of the time and place they occured within.

What is ridiculous, and unworthy of serious consideration, is the notion that this was some exterminination program. It just wasn't. The numbers don't make that out, and neither the government nor the church would have had any interest or benefit in making it so. To be ghoulish, the cheapest way for far more native children to have died would have simply been to leave them on the reservations, because that's what would have happened. Instead, the government believed these children would be better off if they joined mainstream Canadian culture. You can take issue with that, but you can't convert that into an intention to kill these children.

Truth and reconciliation? We aren't even at truth yet!

It is total confusion on Your part. You claimed that no bodies were identified. But that is totally false as the remains of 50 were identified, some being as Young as three years old:

Some of remains are believed to be of children as young as three.

Of the remains found, 50 children are believed to have already been identified, said Stephanie Scott, executive director of the National Centre for Truth and Reconciliation. Their deaths, where known, range from 1900 to 1971.

Why Canada is mourning the deaths of hundreds of children

The discovery of more than a thousand unmarked graves has shocked many. Here's what we know so far.

www.bbc.com

Kamloops (St. Louis) - NCTR

The Kamloops Industrial School was opened, under Roman Catholic administration, in 1890. It became the largest school in the Indian Affairs residential school system. Enrolment peaked in the early 1950s at 500. In 1910, the principal said that the government did not provide enough money to...

nctr.ca

So now that the 50 have been identified and the names released, go ahead and show us real evidence that these bodies do not exist, and not your waffled indoctrination!!

 

[Dutch Oven]

It is total confusion on Your part. You claimed that no bodies were identified. But that is totally false as the remains of 50 were identified, some being as Young as three years old:

Why Canada is mourning the deaths of hundreds of children

The discovery of more than a thousand unmarked graves has shocked many. Here's what we know so far.

www.bbc.com

So now that the 50 have been identified and the names released, go ahead and show us real evidence that these bodies do not exist, and not your waffled indoctrination!!

You literally can't read. The article says that they "believe" they can identify 50 of the children. The article doesn't say that 50 children have been exhumed and positively identified. All the article means is that death records exist for 50 children buried at the site. They can't tell you which remains match which child, or even that they are able to find the remains of the 50 they have records for. Maybe they will be able to positively identify some of the remains once they are exhumed (if they are ever exhumed).

Your posts are so badly reasoned, they are almost not worth responding to.

 

[bver_hunter]

You literally can't read. The article says that they "believe" they can identify 50 of the children. The article doesn't say that 50 children have been exhumed and positively identified. All the article means is that death records exist for 50 children buried at the site. They can't tell you which remains match which child, or even that they are able to find the remains of the 50 they have records for. Maybe they will be able to positively identify some of the remains once they are exhumed (if they are ever exhumed).

Your posts are so badly reasoned, they are almost not worth responding to.

Obviously you keep on buying those conspiracy theories that are desperately trying to ridicule these deaths. Do you know how long it would take to totally exhume and identify all the bodies?
Decades....... yes decades. Now I deliberately did not mention that as I knew that "exhumation" is the next step of your conspiracy theory:

Forensic experts say identifying the remains of Indigenous children and adults buried at former residential schools is a painstaking process that could take decades.

This explains it all in a very concise manner that debunks OPs source:

Megan Bassendale, who is the director at Forensic Guardians International, said the process of identifying all the remains will require extensive investigations and needs to be led by the communities themselves.

“There's a lot of information that needs to be collected from a lot of different sources to actually be able to make identifications,” Bassendale told CTV News Channel on Thursday. “It can take decades.”

During the identification process, forensic investigators would need to interview the family members of missing people, residential school survivors who attended the same school or any other contacts, in an attempt to find out if they had any identifying features.

“They may have had a broken leg during their life or a chipped tooth. Anything that can individualize one person from another is really important for the forensic identification process,” Bassendale explained. “You have to talk to families and communities and listen to them and listen to their stories, there will be a lot of probably oral history.”

Dean Hildebrand, a DNA advisor who also works for Forensic Guardians International, echoed Bassendale on CTV News Channel Thursday, saying the process of identifying the remains will be “extremely challenging.”

“Generally speaking it’s a two-part process, you need to deal with the unidentified human remains themselves and trying to get DNA from those samples,” he explained. “That’s half the battle because you have to have something to compare that to - typically you would have a personal effect or a family member.”

Hildebrand said in the case of the graves at Marieval, finding comparative samples is “very challenging,” and he expects that investigators will be “combing through records for leads” on who these families could be.

This is what it will take to identify hundreds of remains in unmarked graves at residential schools

Forensic experts say identifying the remains of Indigenous children and adults buried at former residential schools is a painstaking process that could take decades.

www.ctvnews.ca

 

[Dutch Oven]

Obviously you keep on buying those conspiracy theories that are desperately trying to ridicule these deaths. Do you know how long it would take to totally exhume and identify all the bodies?
Decades....... yes decades. Now I deliberately did not mention that as I knew that "exhumation" is the next step of your conspiracy theory:

Then I guess it will be decades until actual remains will be established and/or identified. See you back on this thread at that time. Exclamation point.

This explains it all in a very concise manner that debunks OPs source:

This is what it will take to identify hundreds of remains in unmarked graves at residential schools

Forensic experts say identifying the remains of Indigenous children and adults buried at former residential schools is a painstaking process that could take decades.

www.ctvnews.ca

Explaining the difficulties of proving a fact does not relieve anyone of proving a fact they wish to rely upon.

You're making my point, while complaining about having to do so.

 

[bver_hunter]

Then I guess it will be decades until actual remains will be established and/or identified. See you back on this thread at that time. Exclamation point.


Explaining the difficulties of proving a fact does not relieve anyone of proving a fact they wish to rely upon.

You're making my point, while complaining about having to do so.

You have to comprehend that this whole affair was turned into a conspiracy theory by the usual online alt right media.
That Australian Sky Broadcaster bought it and used it for his own usual BS, that aligns with the likes of Hannity and tucker Carlson. He deliberately left out the fact that the exhumation because of the complexity would take decades with years of interaction with the family members of these victims to identify each and every remains!!
But OP without doing his Research picks up from that source and you gobbled it all!!

 

[Dutch Oven]

You have to comprehend that this whole affair was turned into a conspiracy theory by the usual online alt right media.
That Australian Sky Broadcaster bought it and used it for his own usual BS, that aligns with the likes of Hannity and tucker Carlson. He deliberately left out the fact that the exhumation because of the complexity would take decades with years of interaction with the family tress of these victims to identify each and every remains!!
But OP without doing his Research picks up from that source and you gobbled it all!!

You should be able to tell if you've made an error in reasoning. You know how? Look who gives your post a thumbs up!

You're making the case for that Sky broadcaster without realizing it. All of the "takes" that the Indigenous advocacy groups and the media have come out with thus far are premature.

Truth first. Then reconciliation.

 

[bver_hunter]

You should be able to tell if you've made an error in reasoning. You know how? Look who gives your post a thumbs up!

You're making the case for that Sky broadcaster without realizing it. All of the "takes" that the Indigenous advocacy groups and the media have come out with thus far are premature.

Truth first. Then reconciliation.

OIC So now You are questioning the authenticity of the decisions taken by the True Scientists based on the Conspiracy theory of this whole affair by the Online Alt Right Media. Hilarious!!

I am making no case for that Sky Fake Broadcaster, and obviously you cannot comprehend that basic fact. Way back in June of 2021, these experts categorically stated that the remains will take decades to exhume and identify as it is a very painstaking process. So that was fully visible and does not dispute the fact that it is the remains of these Indigenous Children. But obviously that Sky dude did not take the trouble to research a very serious and sad fact, before trying to add insult to injury with respect to the survivors of these tragedies. But then he is a very far right wing individual who supports the suppression of the truth and the Australian Government obviously wants to keep their skeletons under wrap!!

 

[Frankfooter]

You should be able to tell if you've made an error in reasoning. You know how? Look who gives your post a thumbs up!

As long as youtube is the only 'news' source bud will check, he should be forced to listen to testimony by people who survived the residential schools and tell them to their face that he thinks they are lying.