Are we in a golden age of rap music?

[Toke]

Today's rap is good in the same way hair metal was in the 80s. It's a fun watered down version of the genre. Def Leoppard was fun but they weren't Led Zepplin. This is why it's no surprise that older guys in the thread are starting to enjoy it.

90s was the golden era of rap. I enjoy conscious rap as well as straight G shit so long as it sounds good. In the 90s you got plenty of both.

They don't make them like this anymore (what I love, what the new fans probably hate):

Agreed. Comparing now to a time when Biggie, 2Pac, Nas, and Wu-Tang ruled sales is like comparing the Jonas Brothers to The Beatlles.

 

[Toke]

I would say the golden age was mid to late 90s


And why is it anytime Rap comes up some group of old bitches have to come on and knock it.... if you dont like rap then go listen to Roy Orbison or whatever it is that turns your crank and but out of the thread

Old Bitch Alert.....

I do not like rap at ALL. I much prefer to see a band preform the song they wrote with real instruments. If I had to choose, I like the OLDER rap that actually talked about how hard life was - as opposed to how fine bitches be.

"To the window, to the wall, 'til the sweat drip from my balls"....that has no meaning except that it comes with a catchy beat.

I have found myself on many occasions sitting in a room full of white skinny ppl that were rapping along to today's hits and I had to burst out laughing. I had to point out the fact that non of what they were singing about applies to them aside form it being a catchy song that it easy to "sing" (more like talk).
Young guys (18-23) actually referred to girls at a party as "bitches" aka "are there going to be bitches there?"

Or even worse is the trend where young girls like 16-19 dress punk/goth and listen to rap. Clearly it's a trend thing and there is no real reason to do it except everyone else does.

 

[GotGusto]

Well like anything else its a matter of opinion... Your the only person I've met that thinks the roots is "lack lustre"....that common track got hardly any airplay....

OK so you dont like it...BUT Many people think that Gang Starr song is good....the beat is simple but the lyrics carry a positive message...I think I'm going to bump it on the way to work today

I agree, it's just a matter of taste. As for me being the only person who thinks The Roots are overrated, the answer reason is simple: it's sacrosanct to even suggest that a hip-hop group with members who play instruments doesn't make great music. That whole premise is ridiculous.

Just as there are countless rock groups that suck ass regardless of the fact that their members are musicians, The Roots may be fine musicians, but I find nothing special about their music. It's like listening to a guitar virtuoso masturbating with his guitar. He may be a great musician but the music sucks.

Case in point, Slayer sucks. Though their members are all incredible musicians, their music sucks - and I'm probably the only one you'll ever hear say that 'cause there are die hard Slayer fans just like there are die hard The Roots fans. When you play so fast that there is virtually no distinction between the sounds, so that your song sounds no different than a bunch of kids randomly banging on instruments, then you have have no business making records - because your music sucks. That's Slayer. It doesn't sound hard at that point. It sounds stupid, just like cookie monster vocals do. But the pimply teen who wants to belong to something hardcore will swear by it.

 

[winstar]

Actually Tarkovsky...

Winstar raises some good points that I tend to agree with...and you'll be surprised what money can can make people do.


All the guys that know nothing about rap and then slag it dont dont a clue as to whats out there. They think Rap is all nigga this and cash money that because thats what the media rams down your throat...why? because it sells. Theres alot of talented positve rappers...The Roots, Gang Starr, Common...to name a few...but nobody knows them because they wont get the attention..why? because they wont sell...why?because the purchasers dont want to hear a positive message come out of a black mouth....its not "cool" to them.

Here is an example of the stuff you dont hear...but is great stuff by a great artist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7B2VgRShew


or... for some of you that think rapers are musicians...alot actually are but dont push it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qm7Xt2Qsjcg


...and heres a lil bit of gang starr for you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atdvWo4yzRI

Now THATS some rap for you

The Roots are amazing. Other Hip Hop/ Rap artists I like that don't subscribe to this gangster image include Canada's very own K-OS, some Black Eyed Peas stuff (i.e Where is the Love). Common is amazing, Gang Starr, Rakim, Digable Planets, De La Soul, A Tribe Called Quest, Slick Rick is a fantastic poet, Montell Jordan.

All of them are great lyricists, poets, and intelligent rappers/performers without subscribing to the angry gangster image. Even L Cool J, although he looks like a thug doesn't talk about gangbanging, but he may be a stretch. Here are some of my favourite LL Cool J tracks:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEUX-HYRtUA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Edvdmq7yXKQ

Ne-yo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_aC5xPQ2f4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgaeGW-2z6w

As for white rappers, my favorite for the past 20 years have been the Beastie Boys. I can't think of anyone at the moment other than them. i like a few songs from Eminem, but not much.

Canada's Kish was pretty good back in the day. Seeing a mixed half white/Japanese Canadian rap artist was really cool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVyAnbqCCVg

Jamie Foxx is someone I am appreciating more each day. And who can forget Oran juice Jones:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dZW1C3neao

One of the best anthems for telling ladies the way it is.

 

[tarkovsky]

Well, yes Rap is anti-Black. Why? Because the only way black artists are represented in this genre of music is as a greasy drug dealing nigger, instead of having something of value to say. For example, compare Public Enemy's lyrics in the late 80's and early 90's:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PaoLy7PHwk

(Observe the unity and sense of community and pride in the video with the black community, and listen to the lyrics),

to today's rappers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IH8tNQAzSs

Lil Wayne won a grammy for The Carter III. Before that Three Six Mafia won a grammy. And you wonder why? The beats are nice yes, but other than that, all you have is someone perpetuating themselves as a nigger with money, because that's what sells.

Now in the PBS broadcast, well known Rap producers and artists were all saying the same thing: That Rap music is predominantly purchased by white males, who buy into the idea of a nigger, and don't want to see anything else, because that's what they identify Rap artists as. Now what the political scientists and sociologists (who were black) were arguing was that the reason black artists are represented this way in mainstream rap, is because conservative corporate america who own the large record labels, bought the smaller independent rap labels in the early nineties, and perpetuate this idea of the drug dealing nigger, because they know that's what their main customer (the white male) will buy into.

I actually think it's great that white people are listening to Rap, because I think this is a way to bring communities together, but I do have a problem with the way Rap artists are promoted and their identities perpetuated. I used to think it was Black owned labels who were perpetuating this concept until I saw the PBS documentary, and heard the analysis from some very educated black people on the subject and producers and artists in the field.

The other problem I have is that because this idea is perpetuated, it limits what people see and identify in the black community to a nigger, instead of someone who is educated, compassionate, loving , articulate, intelligent etc. At the same time it also limits what a black person self identifies with in their psyche, in that they only see themselves as successful if they have killed someone, done time for a murder, and/or deal drugs. Examples?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100309/ap_en_mu/us_people_lil_wayne

http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdai...nding-return-from-prison-with-single-im-back/

http://crime.about.com/od/famousdiduno/ig/mugshots_rap_hip_rb/snoop.htm

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_times_has_50_cent_been_in_jail

http://www.thisis50.com/profiles/blogs/rappers-amp-jail-a-sad-history


Then we see something like this happen and we wonder why?

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/217619

Another problem I have is when white people, who we've already established are the largest consumers of rap music, listen to it, and think they're cool and hip just because they know the lyrics to the new lil' wayne song, and yet have no black friends and avoid them at all costs. And when I mean friend, I don't mean someone they know. I mean someone they bring home to have dinner with them, or invite to their birthday parties, and include in their social circles.

I have a group of white friends who listen to rap all day long, and think they're the only ones that do, and that they're cooler than everyone else because they know the lyrics to a few songs, and have incorporated so much of rap culture into their identity because they know that the white girls will think they're bad boys and a little "street" if they do. Then they talk about black people in such a negative way, as in "those niggers have no lives" etc. And part of it is because of the way black people are identified and perpetuated both by these rappers and by their slave owners - oops I mean white corporate America, but the other part is because though my friends will listen to this music and incorporate it into their identity, they also are simultaneously incredibly racist towards black people and would never give them the time of day, date them, or think of them other than a nigger.

It all goes back to white people accessorizing their lives with parts of other cultures, with no real connection or respect to the people behind these cultural "accessories", and in very narrow stereotypes. Examples are white girls who make yoga a part of their daily lives, walk around in lululemon yoga pants, and yet would never date an Indian guy, introduce them to their friends, or try Indian food. Or white males who listen to Rap all day long, recite the lyrics, but don't have any black friends they would invite to their homes or parties.

I'm not hating on any white person who has an appreciation for Rap music per se, but I think there is a lot of hypocrisy when you have white people who listen to Rap, and yet do not make any real meaningful effort to associate themselves with black people only seeing them as a gun toting nigger.

Winstar, you're obviously a smart guy but you're transparent. You complain about racism, but you obviously hate white people. Oh wait, isn't that racism? Do you see the...wait for it..."hypocrisy"?

Let me preface the following by first stating I'm against the whole gangsta culture of rap music. I refuse to listen to 50 cent song because he is the poster boy for glorifying gangstas. I do like TI's Home's Dead and Gone song which if anything is critical of gangstas.

However, I don't think there's a conspiracy to make blacks look like nothing more than gangbanging, ho-banging lowlifes. Dexter glorifies serial killers. Does that mean they're making whites look like murderers? Sex and violence as we all know sells and music companies understand this as well as anyone.

 

[winstar]

Winstar, you're obviously a smart guy but you're transparent. You complain about racism, but you obviously hate white people. Oh wait, isn't that racism? Do you see the...wait for it..."hypocrisy"?

Let me preface the following by first stating I'm against the whole gangsta culture of rap music. I refuse to listen to 50 cent song because he is the poster boy for glorifying gangstas. I do like TI's Home's Dead and Gone song which if anything is critical of gangstas.

However, I don't think there's a conspiracy to make blacks look like nothing more than gangbanging, ho-banging lowlifes. Dexter glorifies serial killers. Does that mean they're making whites look like murderers? Sex and violence as we all know sells and music companies understand this as well as anyone.

Thank you Tarkovsky, I appreciate your point of view. As for the racism issue, I will say this. I am against people who treat me poorly. Now, when I write about it, I am usually very specific about detailing which group's behaviors I encounter that I have a problem with and specific with what it is they have done or acted. I'm from the school of thought that we all generalize. It's a protective, adaptive, time saving behavior. White people treat me differently than say the Chinese, who treat me differently than my own West Indian background, etc. From all these communities I have experienced/witnessed racist behaviors. What I always am careful to mention is that it is important that we talk about these issues, because this is the only way that one person can be aware of another person's experience, and what they may be feeling or experiencing. I know some of what I write will offend people, but that is not my objective. It is to be honest about how I am treated, by which groups specifically, and what the problem is. Bringing these issues up in an honest discussion, brings awareness and ultimately, understanding, and I think is the next step, rather than sweeping it under the rug, and trying to pretend issues of race don't exist and Canada is one happy merry place. This isn't the case for all Canadians. Canada does not offer the same opportunities for everyone, and I feel it is important to discuss this.

I think every group, including my own has issues that we need to work on with respect to one another. I have been here long enough to know that one group can be racist to another and yet completely accepting of other groups. That is, racism is specific. For example, The Chinese tend to be racist towards anyone who is dark skinned, especially those who are black, even though they are a people of color, and yet treat white people much better than anyone else. This is an example of racism that is specific. I'm sure there are Chinese people that don't want me to say that, because they don't like the idea of their community being branded as racist, but I'm also sure they would agree with me. The same with White people. They tend to love Chinese people, and treat brown people poorly. Or Brown people who treat each other poorly. For example, East Indians think they are better than West Indians, and within our entire culture, there is a strong belief on the caste system, which reduces a persons worth and potential to the color of your skin, i.e. You are good and noble and successful if you are light skinned, and if you are darker, you are worthless. That is one of the problems in my group. Or how Indian people hate on each other's success. How we're divided. These are issues no one wants to hear or talk about, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. And how do we address those issues if we're not willing to talk about them or say, "Hey, this is a problem I have with your group and here's why". Talking about it breeds understanding, and understanding breeds empathy and ultimately change. But people cannot be expected to change if they don't know what the problem is in the first place, and that starts with an open discussion on issues of race, which are often difficult to discuss, because no one wants to be called a racist for talking about another groups behavior they find unacceptable.

If Black people in the 60's didn't talk honestly and openly about how they felt about segregation, police brutality, etc., progress and awareness wouldn't have been made. We're 50 years forward from the civil rights movement, and still today, even with open dialogues on some issues of race, we're still in a climate that is intolerant, and unfair.

Now, I know there are white people on this board who feel I am racist to white people because I am straight forward with speaking my mind about the treatment I encounter. Just last night for example, this White Lady and her two young children were on the streetcar, and the children sat in front of me. The seat next to me was the only one available in the streetcar, and the woman chose to stand rather than sit next to me right behind her kids. She stood on the streetcar for quite sometime, until the a seat in front of her kids opened up and she then sat down, even though the seat next to me was available the whole time, and her kids motioned to her to sit down and didn't understand themselves why she was standing. Things like this happen everytime I take the TTC. And it is a problem, when we say Canadians are tolerant, but that isn't necessarily true. Just yesterday, someone on this thread was making accusations that I belonged to a terrorist group, and the moderators stepped in. That's not acceptable.

As for white people, Some of the best, important people in my life are white, but that doesn't mean that white people are not racist. When white people consistently won't sit next to me on the bus, and every other group will, that to me is a problem.

The people in my life that are white that have made a difference were my primary school and high school teachers, and employers. These are individuals who actually took the time to get to know me, and invested their time into helping me move forward in life. Contrast that to someone who won't sit next to me on the subway and dismisses me with a look. Believe me, it is not my intention to offend a person's community, but I think it is important to be open and honest about the way we treat each other and what those experiences are, good and bad.

 

[good to go]

The rap music of the late 80's and 90's was the best. Now they have commercialized the industry and almost turned it into pop. Yeach.

 

[GotGusto]

K-OS, Black Eyed Peas, Neyo, Motel Jordan, Kish, Jamie Foxxx all suck.

 

[Toke]

The Roots are amazing. Other Hip Hop/ Rap artists I like that don't subscribe to this gangster image include Canada's very own K-OS, some Black Eyed Peas stuff (i.e Where is the Love). Common is amazing, Gang Starr, Rakim, Digable Planets, De La Soul, A Tribe Called Quest, Slick Rick is a fantastic poet, Montell Jordan.

All of them are great lyricists, poets, and intelligent rappers/performers without subscribing to the angry gangster image. Even L Cool J, although he looks like a thug doesn't talk about gangbanging, but he may be a stretch. Here are some of my favourite LL Cool J tracks:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEUX-HYRtUA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Edvdmq7yXKQ

Ne-yo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_aC5xPQ2f4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgaeGW-2z6w

As for white rappers, my favorite for the past 20 years have been the Beastie Boys. I can't think of anyone at the moment other than them. i like a few songs from Eminem, but not much.

Canada's Kish was pretty good back in the day. Seeing a mixed half white/Japanese Canadian rap artist was really cool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVyAnbqCCVg

Jamie Foxx is someone I am appreciating more each day. And who can forget Oran juice Jones:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dZW1C3neao

One of the best anthems for telling ladies the way it is.

Since when have Montell Jordan, Ne-yo and Jaime Foxx been rappers? Hip-hop? Yes. Rappers?? Nope.

 

[Major Major]

Thank you Tarkovsky, I appreciate your point of view. As for the racism issue, I will say this. I am against people who treat me poorly. Now, when I write about it, I am usually very specific about detailing which group's behaviors I encounter that I have a problem with and specific with what it is they have done or acted. I'm from the school of thought that we all generalize. It's a protective, adaptive, time saving behavior. White people treat me differently than say the Chinese, who treat me differently than my own West Indian background, etc. From all these communities I have experienced/witnessed racist behaviors. What I always am careful to mention is that it is important that we talk about these issues, because this is the only way that one person can be aware of another person's experience, and what they may be feeling or experiencing. I know some of what I write will offend people, but that is not my objective. It is to be honest about how I am treated, by which groups specifically, and what the problem is. Bringing these issues up in an honest discussion, brings awareness and ultimately, understanding, and I think is the next step, rather than sweeping it under the rug, and trying to pretend issues of race don't exist and Canada is one happy merry place. This isn't the case for all Canadians. Canada does not offer the same opportunities for everyone, and I feel it is important to discuss this.

I think every group, including my own has issues that we need to work on with respect to one another. I have been here long enough to know that one group can be racist to another and yet completely accepting of other groups. That is, racism is specific. For example, The Chinese tend to be racist towards anyone who is dark skinned, especially those who are black, even though they are a people of color, and yet treat white people much better than anyone else. This is an example of racism that is specific. I'm sure there are Chinese people that don't want me to say that, because they don't like the idea of their community being branded as racist, but I'm also sure they would agree with me. The same with White people. They tend to love Chinese people, and treat brown people poorly. Or Brown people who treat each other poorly. For example, East Indians think they are better than West Indians, and within our entire culture, there is a strong belief on the caste system, which reduces a persons worth and potential to the color of your skin, i.e. You are good and noble and successful if you are light skinned, and if you are darker, you are worthless. That is one of the problems in my group. Or how Indian people hate on each other's success. How we're divided. These are issues no one wants to hear or talk about, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. And how do we address those issues if we're not willing to talk about them or say, "Hey, this is a problem I have with your group and here's why". Talking about it breeds understanding, and understanding breeds empathy and ultimately change. But people cannot be expected to change if they don't know what the problem is in the first place, and that starts with an open discussion on issues of race, which are often difficult to discuss, because no one wants to be called a racist for talking about another groups behavior they find unacceptable.

If Black people in the 60's didn't talk honestly and openly about how they felt about segregation, police brutality, etc., progress and awareness wouldn't have been made. We're 50 years forward from the civil rights movement, and still today, even with open dialogues on some issues of race, we're still in a climate that is intolerant, and unfair.

Now, I know there are white people on this board who feel I am racist to white people because I am straight forward with speaking my mind about the treatment I encounter. Just last night for example, this White Lady and her two young children were on the streetcar, and the children sat in front of me. The seat next to me was the only one available in the streetcar, and the woman chose to stand rather than sit next to me right behind her kids. She stood on the streetcar for quite sometime, until the a seat in front of her kids opened up and she then sat down, even though the seat next to me was available the whole time, and her kids motioned to her to sit down and didn't understand themselves why she was standing. Things like this happen everytime I take the TTC. And it is a problem, when we say Canadians are tolerant, but that isn't necessarily true. Just yesterday, someone on this thread was making accusations that I belonged to a terrorist group, and the moderators stepped in. That's not acceptable.

As for white people, Some of the best, important people in my life are white, but that doesn't mean that white people are not racist. When white people consistently won't sit next to me on the bus, and every other group will, that to me is a problem.

The people in my life that are white that have made a difference were my primary school and high school teachers, and employers. These are individuals who actually took the time to get to know me, and invested their time into helping me move forward in life. Contrast that to someone who won't sit next to me on the subway and dismisses me with a look. Believe me, it is not my intention to offend a person's community, but I think it is important to be open and honest about the way we treat each other and what those experiences are, good and bad.

Very interesting point winstar.... But you cant be 100% sure that the reason why the lady wouldnt sit beside you is because you're black

 

[K Douglas]

Golden Age of Rap/Hip Hop right now, you can't possibly be serious?? The Golden Age of Hip Hop is generally known as the period from 1987 to 1994. During that period you had the likes of Eric B & Rakim, Public Enemy, EPMD, KRS One, A Tribe Called Quest, Pete Rock & CL Smooth, Gang Starr, Wu Tang Clan, Nas, Notorious B.I.G......Today's artists don't hold a candle to these icons. Yes there's some good underground hip hop today but I can count on 1 hand the # of quality mainstream rap/hip hop albums released in the last 2 years. There was a reason Nas came out with Hip Hop Is Dead back in '06.

 

[mikec8inch]

the golden age of hip hop was the 90's , it's gone down hill in the 2000's for a number of reasons , what ever happened to hip hop song/beat that you can bop your head to , or an actual live hip hop performence without rapping over your voice being played , just the beat .

the last hip hop albums i bought were Busta Rhymes - The Big Bang ( really good , mostly dr. dre produced when busta was with aftermath ) and The Game - Doctors advocate.

Sadly , the last hip hop album i will ever buy will be Dr. Dre - Detox , it will be a classic.

 

[Back Burner]

The Roots are mediocre at best. People sing their praises because they play their own instruments. That's terrific, but the music is lackluster. If somebody gave me one of their albums as a gift, I'd probably burn it.

Black Thought is one of the best lyricist in the game, they put on the best show I've ever seen in any genre of music. And simple put , 7 albums later they're one of the best hip hop groups ever.

The Roots are anything but mediocre.

 

[Cinema Face]

Rap music is an oxymoron.

 

[The Bandit]

We're in the golden age of crap music, is there anyone out there making good music anymore?

What's the difference between rap and hip-hop? Sounds all the same to me.

 

[GotGusto]

Black Thought is one of the best lyricist in the game, they put on the best show I've ever seen in any genre of music. And simple put , 7 albums later they're one of the best hip hop groups ever.

He probably is, but I've never taken the time to listen to him because The Roots music doesn't keep me interested. I'm sure they put on a superb live show - watching Questlove on drums live would be worth the price of admission alone.

 

[Toke]

Old bitch alert...

Rap music is an oxymoron.

 

[Bif_Butkiss]

RAP..... CRAP..... Sounds the same too me!

 

[Toke]

We're in the golden age of crap music, is there anyone out there making good music anymore?

What's the difference between rap and hip-hop? Sounds all the same to me.

Rap? It is what it is. Not singing, not just talking, but flowing over a beat while you make sense.

Hip-Hop? Includes rap, but also music that spawned from the genre. R&B (and its many variants like New Jack Swing and Neo-Soul) that have strong rap influences in them. Think Usher, Mary J. Blige, R. Kelly, and the afroementioned Ne-Yo.

 

[Toke]

Old bitch alert...

RAP..... CRAP..... Sounds the same too me!

Let me guess. You're at least 60.