In the 90's rappers thought they were in a godfather movie. It was gansta this, gansta that - I'm so great, blah, blah, blah - BORING. I understand what you're saying wrt to "hard" rap versus the smooth stuff coming out now. Just because I like rock doesn't mean I can't hate Nickelback with the best of them. But what I'm talking about is how the stuff coming out actually pushes the envelope artistically. I thought that Diggable Planets song was over the top but then after that, they had nothing. I'm telling you, this Drake kid is sick.
Are we in a golden age of rap music?
- Thread starter tarkovsky
- Start date
Totally disagree.
I think the late 80's/90's was the golden age. There was an over-abundance of creativity and styles of Rap.
Today:
1) The BPM's are the same (Radio DJs/Programmers prefer this for switching to songs & commercials)
2) There is no originality -- It's all been done before.
3) ANYBODY can rap with the right computer program.
I think the late 80's/90's was the golden age. There was an over-abundance of creativity and styles of Rap.
Today:
1) The BPM's are the same (Radio DJs/Programmers prefer this for switching to songs & commercials)
2) There is no originality -- It's all been done before.
3) ANYBODY can rap with the right computer program.
I would say the golden age was mid to late 90s
And why is it anytime Rap comes up some group of old bitches have to come on and knock it.... if you dont like rap then go listen to Roy Orbison or whatever it is that turns your crank and but out of the thread
And why is it anytime Rap comes up some group of old bitches have to come on and knock it.... if you dont like rap then go listen to Roy Orbison or whatever it is that turns your crank and but out of the thread
I totally agree with this
Anytime anyone brings up rap on this forum, it's pretty much DOA for 90% of the board, because either they can't break out of their biases/prejudices and acknowledge that rap music is real music, or they're non-discriminatory and think all music produced after 1990 is crap, but there's always a few people with decent points
I would say from the late 80s, with the birth and popularization of gangsta rap to the mid-to-late 90s was the heyday of rap. Some people will say the early 80s when it was still truly underground was, but I can't make judgement on that since I wasn't even born then, let alone listening to rap. Pretty much everyone, with the exceptions of the true pioneers like Afrika Bambaataa, Grandmaster Flash, who people think of when they think of the best rap musicians, cut some of their best stuff during the late 80s, to the mid 90s. Then it got surburban popular, and white guys like me starting listening, and then it was the digital music revolution, and now the Autotune revolution, and commerical hip-hop became directed at 15 year-old girls and boys. There's always good underground stuff being made, and if you compare the best stuff now, it's pretty close in quantity to the best stuff from earlier, but there isn't the same merger of popularity and craftmanship, i.e. most of the stuff that's dominating airwaves now is the Jay Sean/Soulja Boy/New Boyz shit. Any musical genre from any period is at least 50-60% crap anyway, but we're seeing, sorta like the hair-metal phrase, that was mentioned, that the popular stuff now, has very little artistic value, and you gotta dig deep to find it
Having said all that, some of the artists mentioned above, like T.I. and Jay-Z are still dropping excellent music
Preach it!!
And don't sleep on current groups like Little Brother and Pac Div. There's still a lot of underground that doesn't get picked up by local radio and TV.
I am not much of a fan of rap music, but my personal impresson is that the mid 80s to the mid 90s was the period when the most interesting rap musicians really came to the fore (Public Enemy, Run DMC, Maestro Fresh Wes, Eminem) and hence this would represent the "golden age" of rap.
That being said, I have to admit I'm really out of touch with what is popular in music nowadays, in any genre (sad for a man in his 30s). Could anyone fill me in on what youth are listening to these days, besides the Jonas brothers, Miley Cyrus, and other bubble gum "musicians"?
That being said, I have to admit I'm really out of touch with what is popular in music nowadays, in any genre (sad for a man in his 30s). Could anyone fill me in on what youth are listening to these days, besides the Jonas brothers, Miley Cyrus, and other bubble gum "musicians"?
I recently watched a documentary on Rap music on PBS during Black History Month. On this program, the researcher interviewed a number of prominent Rap artists about their opinions on rap and the state of rap music now such as Chuck D from Public Enemy, Busta Rhymes, Russell Simmons from RUN/DMC etc. and a number of Black Sociologists and Political Scientists from academia, and all of them were unanimous in their consensus, that 80% of Rap music's consumer isn't the black male. It's the White male. They went on to explain that when Public Enemy was around, Rap was a forum to discuss political issues as a mass art form. During this time, Rap labels were not as represented by the big record labels such as Time Warner or Atlantic etc. When the big record labels bought out the smaller labels, the music changed from political commentary, on issues such as black identity in America, racism and discrimination and the police, and social injustice, to gangster rap, about which nigger has the biggest dick, gold chains, most whores, deals drugs etc. The reason they postulated was because that was what the white american (and Canadian) male identified black people as -angry hate filled niggers. And that identity was so easy to market to white people and they ate it up, based on their prejudices, that these labels that were owned by white corporate america, whose ultra conservative values system was marketing this idea of the black male as a nigger instead of an intelligent introspective person who was self aware of their perception and identity and grounded in their community, was not only more profitable to the white male, but also undermined any consensus building and identity formation within the black male to be anything other than a greasy, street hood nigger.
So that's why you see artists today like 50 cent, glorified because he got shot and went to jail, instead of the Roots, or Gang Starr, very intelligent introspective rap artists. That's why you have jackasses like lil wayne and lil John with these stupid personas, all idolized by white males and females, whose simple prejudices and stereotypes feed this idea of the drug dealing thug. Then around comes Noble Laureate, Law Professor, American President Barack Obama, and we know that's not the only identity that a Black male can have. But it is the only one that predominates music today, because consumers and producers don't want to see anything else than ugly as fuck lil wayne act like a nigger and fuck a whole bunch of white hoes. When lil Wayne does it, it's expected and revered. When Tiger Woods does it, it's condemned.
It's all a bunch of bullshit. Relying on MTV and CTV/MUCH for social programming is simply an error in my opinion. The channels run by CTV including MTV, is operated by ultra conservative David Thompson of Roy Thompson Hall lineage, and the Ontario Teacher Pension Fund, a racist union.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CTVglobemedia
This business relationship extends more than a business partnership. It allows the Thompson Family and the Ontario Teacher's Union to not only socially program our kids inside the classroom, but outside of it as well via pop culture. If you look at the programming CTV/MUCH/MTV often has, it's basically white people with no ambition to be anything else than an emo Ambecrombie and Fitch ambitionless douchebag that doesn't contribute anything positive to society and is apathetic to any real social issues. Examples? Jersey Shore, The Hills, Peak Season, etc. Then Much has Sex Rehab, Celebrity Rehab, and Sober House, which although it is a show about the repercussions of drug use, it's advertising seems to promote and idolize it, all the way to the snotty white girl accent they have on all of the advertisements for these shows. Watch it one time and you'll know what I mean.
These ultra conservative families and groups who in the real world have no desire to associate with the middleclass, dictate social policy to us, and we eat it up. They show us that black people can't be anything other than niggers, and guess what, you see a hundred niggers running around Toronto gangbanging, and hot white girls that idolize the drug dealing pimp, instead of someone who builds this society such as a doctor, lawyer, or scientist. A real bad boy isn't some jackass who can carry a gun and act like a dick. It's the guy who in the midst of stupidity can maintain their sense of identity, and get an education and contribute. That's a real man. Not some gangbanging fool. Then these girls get AIDS or get pregnant, or become drug addicts and wonder how it all happened?
Meanwhile these ultra conservative families send their kids to private schools like Upper Canada College, and then Universities out of the diverse middle class city, and into small white towns like Queens. Kingston, or Western in London, or Ivy League Schools, and the culture there is very affluent and racist. But they end up owning the media, and simply control the flow of information that comes our way, and from this control our opinions on whatever it is they want to engineer us to think. Then they show stupid shows like the Hills, and guess what you end up seeing at the malls? Girls that act stupid like Heidi Montag, dating douches like Spencer Pratt, and we wonder why?
Rap music today SUCKS ASS!
This is best exemplified by this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHVhwcOg6y8
The reason this guy exists is because Usher, who's producing him, knows that the biggest market in hiphop/rap today isn't the black male. It's the white male/female, and these are the douches that middleclass teens today want to see, because The Thompson group via CTV Globemedia, MUCH and MTV only show these douches on TV to a predominantly middle and lower class market. The reason is more than likely because douchbags like these are like the nieces and nephews of ultra conservative families like the Thompson family, who have no other ambition in society but to get high, because they don't need to work, and have no real idea of diversity, because they don't embrace it apart from some very select stereotypes that exist today, because they don't involve themselves in diversity, but exclude through their social circles, and in the choice of schools they attend.
So that's why you see artists today like 50 cent, glorified because he got shot and went to jail, instead of the Roots, or Gang Starr, very intelligent introspective rap artists. That's why you have jackasses like lil wayne and lil John with these stupid personas, all idolized by white males and females, whose simple prejudices and stereotypes feed this idea of the drug dealing thug. Then around comes Noble Laureate, Law Professor, American President Barack Obama, and we know that's not the only identity that a Black male can have. But it is the only one that predominates music today, because consumers and producers don't want to see anything else than ugly as fuck lil wayne act like a nigger and fuck a whole bunch of white hoes. When lil Wayne does it, it's expected and revered. When Tiger Woods does it, it's condemned.
It's all a bunch of bullshit. Relying on MTV and CTV/MUCH for social programming is simply an error in my opinion. The channels run by CTV including MTV, is operated by ultra conservative David Thompson of Roy Thompson Hall lineage, and the Ontario Teacher Pension Fund, a racist union.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CTVglobemedia
This business relationship extends more than a business partnership. It allows the Thompson Family and the Ontario Teacher's Union to not only socially program our kids inside the classroom, but outside of it as well via pop culture. If you look at the programming CTV/MUCH/MTV often has, it's basically white people with no ambition to be anything else than an emo Ambecrombie and Fitch ambitionless douchebag that doesn't contribute anything positive to society and is apathetic to any real social issues. Examples? Jersey Shore, The Hills, Peak Season, etc. Then Much has Sex Rehab, Celebrity Rehab, and Sober House, which although it is a show about the repercussions of drug use, it's advertising seems to promote and idolize it, all the way to the snotty white girl accent they have on all of the advertisements for these shows. Watch it one time and you'll know what I mean.
These ultra conservative families and groups who in the real world have no desire to associate with the middleclass, dictate social policy to us, and we eat it up. They show us that black people can't be anything other than niggers, and guess what, you see a hundred niggers running around Toronto gangbanging, and hot white girls that idolize the drug dealing pimp, instead of someone who builds this society such as a doctor, lawyer, or scientist. A real bad boy isn't some jackass who can carry a gun and act like a dick. It's the guy who in the midst of stupidity can maintain their sense of identity, and get an education and contribute. That's a real man. Not some gangbanging fool. Then these girls get AIDS or get pregnant, or become drug addicts and wonder how it all happened?
Meanwhile these ultra conservative families send their kids to private schools like Upper Canada College, and then Universities out of the diverse middle class city, and into small white towns like Queens. Kingston, or Western in London, or Ivy League Schools, and the culture there is very affluent and racist. But they end up owning the media, and simply control the flow of information that comes our way, and from this control our opinions on whatever it is they want to engineer us to think. Then they show stupid shows like the Hills, and guess what you end up seeing at the malls? Girls that act stupid like Heidi Montag, dating douches like Spencer Pratt, and we wonder why?
Rap music today SUCKS ASS!
This is best exemplified by this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHVhwcOg6y8
The reason this guy exists is because Usher, who's producing him, knows that the biggest market in hiphop/rap today isn't the black male. It's the white male/female, and these are the douches that middleclass teens today want to see, because The Thompson group via CTV Globemedia, MUCH and MTV only show these douches on TV to a predominantly middle and lower class market. The reason is more than likely because douchbags like these are like the nieces and nephews of ultra conservative families like the Thompson family, who have no other ambition in society but to get high, because they don't need to work, and have no real idea of diversity, because they don't embrace it apart from some very select stereotypes that exist today, because they don't involve themselves in diversity, but exclude through their social circles, and in the choice of schools they attend.
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So you're saying rap music is anti-black? LMAO. Everyone on this board knows your dissertations always has at its core, your hatred of white people. I highly doubt black people call each other the n-bomb just to be more marketable to rich white kids.
Why do I call myself the n-bomb. . .
From the 90s. They don't make them like that anymore.
Yes I wholeheartedly agree. Public Enemy, Puff Daddy ( P.Diddy ahem I mean Diddy... oh sorry... Sean Combs) Nortorious B.I.G. and Tupac were great. Nowadays these new rappers are just packaged versions attempting to be like their predecessors. Not even close. Now it's all about bling, bitches, slapping around hos and how "I used to be poor but now I'm a big man on campus" bullshit.
I do not like rap at ALL. I much prefer to see a band preform the song they wrote with real instruments. If I had to choose, I like the OLDER rap that actually talked about how hard life was - as opposed to how fine bitches be.
"To the window, to the wall, 'til the sweat drip from my balls"....that has no meaning except that it comes with a catchy beat.
I have found myself on many occasions sitting in a room full of white skinny ppl that were rapping along to today's hits and I had to burst out laughing. I had to point out the fact that non of what they were singing about applies to them aside form it being a catchy song that it easy to "sing" (more like talk).
Young guys (18-23) actually referred to girls at a party as "bitches" aka "are there going to be bitches there?"
Or even worse is the trend where young girls like 16-19 dress punk/goth and listen to rap. Clearly it's a trend thing and there is no real reason to do it except everyone else does.
"To the window, to the wall, 'til the sweat drip from my balls"....that has no meaning except that it comes with a catchy beat.
I have found myself on many occasions sitting in a room full of white skinny ppl that were rapping along to today's hits and I had to burst out laughing. I had to point out the fact that non of what they were singing about applies to them aside form it being a catchy song that it easy to "sing" (more like talk).
Young guys (18-23) actually referred to girls at a party as "bitches" aka "are there going to be bitches there?"
Or even worse is the trend where young girls like 16-19 dress punk/goth and listen to rap. Clearly it's a trend thing and there is no real reason to do it except everyone else does.
I realize this is humor but the golden age of disco was also in the 90s. House, techno, electronica, dance music is all modern disco.
Well, yes Rap is anti-Black. Why? Because the only way black artists are represented in this genre of music is as a greasy drug dealing nigger, instead of having something of value to say. For example, compare Public Enemy's lyrics in the late 80's and early 90's:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PaoLy7PHwk
(Observe the unity and sense of community and pride in the video with the black community, and listen to the lyrics),
to today's rappers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IH8tNQAzSs
Lil Wayne won a grammy for The Carter III. Before that Three Six Mafia won a grammy. And you wonder why? The beats are nice yes, but other than that, all you have is someone perpetuating themselves as a nigger with money, because that's what sells.
Now in the PBS broadcast, well known Rap producers and artists were all saying the same thing: That Rap music is predominantly purchased by white males, who buy into the idea of a nigger, and don't want to see anything else, because that's what they identify Rap artists as. Now what the political scientists and sociologists (who were black) were arguing was that the reason black artists are represented this way in mainstream rap, is because conservative corporate america who own the large record labels, bought the smaller independent rap labels in the early nineties, and perpetuate this idea of the drug dealing nigger, because they know that's what their main customer (the white male) will buy into.
I actually think it's great that white people are listening to Rap, because I think this is a way to bring communities together, but I do have a problem with the way Rap artists are promoted and their identities perpetuated. I used to think it was Black owned labels who were perpetuating this concept until I saw the PBS documentary, and heard the analysis from some very educated black people on the subject and producers and artists in the field.
The other problem I have is that because this idea is perpetuated, it limits what people see and identify in the black community to a nigger, instead of someone who is educated, compassionate, loving , articulate, intelligent etc. At the same time it also limits what a black person self identifies with in their psyche, in that they only see themselves as successful if they have killed someone, done time for a murder, and/or deal drugs. Examples?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100309/ap_en_mu/us_people_lil_wayne
http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdai...nding-return-from-prison-with-single-im-back/
http://crime.about.com/od/famousdiduno/ig/mugshots_rap_hip_rb/snoop.htm
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_times_has_50_cent_been_in_jail
http://www.thisis50.com/profiles/blogs/rappers-amp-jail-a-sad-history
Then we see something like this happen and we wonder why?
http://www.thestar.com/news/article/217619
Another problem I have is when white people, who we've already established are the largest consumers of rap music, listen to it, and think they're cool and hip just because they know the lyrics to the new lil' wayne song, and yet have no black friends and avoid them at all costs. And when I mean friend, I don't mean someone they know. I mean someone they bring home to have dinner with them, or invite to their birthday parties, and include in their social circles.
I have a group of white friends who listen to rap all day long, and think they're the only ones that do, and that they're cooler than everyone else because they know the lyrics to a few songs, and have incorporated so much of rap culture into their identity because they know that the white girls will think they're bad boys and a little "street" if they do. Then they talk about black people in such a negative way, as in "those niggers have no lives" etc. And part of it is because of the way black people are identified and perpetuated both by these rappers and by their slave owners - oops I mean white corporate America, but the other part is because though my friends will listen to this music and incorporate it into their identity, they also are simultaneously incredibly racist towards black people and would never give them the time of day, date them, or think of them other than a nigger.
It all goes back to white people accessorizing their lives with parts of other cultures, with no real connection or respect to the people behind these cultural "accessories", and in very narrow stereotypes. Examples are white girls who make yoga a part of their daily lives, walk around in lululemon yoga pants, and yet would never date an Indian guy, introduce them to their friends, or try Indian food. Or white males who listen to Rap all day long, recite the lyrics, but don't have any black friends they would invite to their homes or parties.
I'm not hating on any white person who has an appreciation for Rap music per se, but I think there is a lot of hypocrisy when you have white people who listen to Rap, and yet do not make any real meaningful effort to associate themselves with black people only seeing them as a gun toting nigger.
Actually Tarkovsky...
Winstar raises some good points that I tend to agree with...and you'll be surprised what money can can make people do.
All the guys that know nothing about rap and then slag it dont dont a clue as to whats out there. They think Rap is all nigga this and cash money that because thats what the media rams down your throat...why? because it sells. Theres alot of talented positve rappers...The Roots, Gang Starr, Common...to name a few...but nobody knows them because they wont get the attention..why? because they wont sell...why?because the purchasers dont want to hear a positive message come out of a black mouth....its not "cool" to them.
Here is an example of the stuff you dont hear...but is great stuff by a great artist.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7B2VgRShew
or... for some of you that think rapers are musicians...alot actually are but dont push it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qm7Xt2Qsjcg
...and heres a lil bit of gang starr for you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atdvWo4yzRI
Now THATS some rap for you
That's part of it. The other part is that many conscious rappers produce shitty rap music. Positive lyrics doesn't mean much if the music doesn't hit. If a track doesn't sound good, nobody is going to listen to the lyrics.
Got lots of airplay and it's a good track.
The Roots are mediocre at best. People sing their praises because they play their own instruments. That's terrific, but the music is lackluster. If somebody gave me one of their albums as a gift, I'd probably burn it.
I couldn't get thru that track. Boring. Zero musical integrity. That's supposed to be good? By what standard? I don't think that's going to make any new fans of the genre, sorry.
Well like anything else its a matter of opinion... Your the only person I've met that thinks the roots is "lack lustre"....that common track got hardly any airplay....
OK so you dont like it...BUT Many people think that Gang Starr song is good....the beat is simple but the lyrics carry a positive message...I think I'm going to bump it on the way to work today
