Look, you still don't understand what I'm saying. I'll try again. I said there are no 'real' Canadians. That's what I wrote on my first post. If the poll asked, "Is Ulan Bator a 'real' Canadian, I would have voted 'NO!'. Why? BECAUSE THERE IS NO SUCH THING! The whole concept died out almost fifty years ago. People have to take a new approach if they're going to have any hopes of getting along. What's so hard to understand about that???gramage said:
Are Tamil's "Real Canadians"
- Thread starter onthebottom
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LMAO. You have no idea that what you wrote is the root cause of the opinions and feelings of people. No real Canadians, eh? Outdated concept, eh? I understand way more than you do, bud.Ulan Bator said:
I consider myself a 'real' Canadian. I'm no hyphenated one. I will stand by first Canadians (what you people call Natives or Indians). I love this country first and foremost. I couldn't give that much shit about my ancestors' homelands that I would inconvenience my fellow real Canadians when we have Canadian issues to deal with first. For example.
Nor would I expect to supplant Canadian norms with whatever 'outdated' customs and ideals originated from wherever my ancestors came from either. Seems if you can call Canadian concepts outdated, I can call any other one the same, right? Good for the gander thing. What I will do is enrich my country's diversity. Add to its mosaic. Add to its vibrant culture. Celebrate and recognize the existing and previous norms, values and cultures that made it possible for my ancestors to come here and be so much more free and prosper so much more than wherever they came from in the first place.
If I were to celebrate Tamil culture, I would expect Tamils to also celebrate Native culture, Quebecois culture, learn English/French, learn Canadian history, etc... - all mixed and converted to Canadian culture. Otherwise why did they bother to come here? Send them back home.
Ever notice Tamils in Japan don't disrupt traffic? What about protests in Russia? Or Greece? or wherever? You get the idea. As an open nation, we've lost our bearings. We've become doormats where anyone and their beef can take a public soapbox and claim it "Canadian". BS. It's a selfish method to take advantage of our good nature and goodwill. Values that real Canadians are fed up when others take advantage of it.
Alright...let's take it from another angle. If so many people are 'real' Canadians (like you feel you are) then who, exactly, are the 'unreal' Canadians??? You can't have one without the other.........bud.rama putri said:
The Chinese have given massive aid to Sri Lanka much more than all Western Countries combined. Further even in Sweden I doubt that the Tamil Tigers have a high popularity rating.asn said:
Well the number I got from the media may be wrong, but I am not wrong in my point: Most Tamils in Toronto did not protest in favour of a terrorist organization. Maybe there are only 100k in Toronto rather than 250k--that still means that at least 70-80% of them stayed away.Keebler Elf said:
You are wrong. No-one who waves the flag of the Tamil Tigers, or allows themselves to be photographed alongside someone who is wavign that flag, can be described as either good or decent.wet_suit_one said:
These people say that the LTTE are the only representatives of the Tamil people, but neglect to mention the reason for that--the LTTE killed all the moderate Tamils.
These people say that the LTTE is fighting for freedom and equality in Sri Lanka, but neglect to mention that the LTTE carried out brutal ethnic cleansings of Sinhalese in the areas that were under its control.
In no way is anyone waving that flag "good" or "decent".
I don't dispute that the Sri Lankan government has been oppressive, but the LTTE was even more fucking oppressive in the areas under its control. The Sri Lankans, at least, didn't go about killing all the moderates.
That said the brutal oppression that the Sri Lankan government carried out against Tamils does need to be recognized, condemned, and corrected. The LTTE solution--killing as many people as possible--is not going to achieve peace, though.
That war might have ended long, long ago if there had been moderate voices on the Tamil side. There WERE moderate voices on the Tamil side--the LTTE killed them. Even this week some Tamils that tried to escape from the conflict zone were shot at by the LTTE as they fled.
Arguably the LTTE are a bigger problem than the Sri Lankan government because the SLG has not killed off the Sinhalese moderates and therefore there are still moderate voices on the Sinhalese side.
No
The Immigrant fallacy goes like this:
"All Canadians are immigrants, therefore there is no such thing as a "real" Canadian and therefore I am just as Canadian as any Canadian."
They believe this because they grew up in Toronto which is the epicentre of Canadian immigrants. Go live in a small town in the prairies or the maritimes and you will see what a real Canadian looks like. You will realise, yes there is such a thing as a "real Canadian" and Canadian culture. Toronto is NOT Canada; the mistake immigrants make is that Toronto is typical and representative of Canada; the rest of Canada HATES Toronto.
I'm a first gen-ner and I consider myself an immigrant. Why? Because I was raised by parents who did not grow up in Canada. Therefore, my upbringing and cultural influence is that of my parents' native country, NOT Canada.
If I were to marry a Canadian who was born here and we have a mixed-race child, I would consider them a "real" Canadian. I consider Obama a "real" American because at least one of his parents (his mother) is of a long ancestry in America.
IMO, race-mixing is the only way immigrants will become truly Canadian because the child will not have the single-race heritage of an immigrant. They may be part this and part that, but their main self-image and LOYALTY will be CANADIAN. It doesn't have to be a caucasian-mix btw, could be black-hispanic or whatever.
The Immigrant fallacy goes like this:
"All Canadians are immigrants, therefore there is no such thing as a "real" Canadian and therefore I am just as Canadian as any Canadian."
They believe this because they grew up in Toronto which is the epicentre of Canadian immigrants. Go live in a small town in the prairies or the maritimes and you will see what a real Canadian looks like. You will realise, yes there is such a thing as a "real Canadian" and Canadian culture. Toronto is NOT Canada; the mistake immigrants make is that Toronto is typical and representative of Canada; the rest of Canada HATES Toronto.
I'm a first gen-ner and I consider myself an immigrant. Why? Because I was raised by parents who did not grow up in Canada. Therefore, my upbringing and cultural influence is that of my parents' native country, NOT Canada.
If I were to marry a Canadian who was born here and we have a mixed-race child, I would consider them a "real" Canadian. I consider Obama a "real" American because at least one of his parents (his mother) is of a long ancestry in America.
IMO, race-mixing is the only way immigrants will become truly Canadian because the child will not have the single-race heritage of an immigrant. They may be part this and part that, but their main self-image and LOYALTY will be CANADIAN. It doesn't have to be a caucasian-mix btw, could be black-hispanic or whatever.
I agree that you can't paint a whole ethnic group with the same brush.
However,
What we saw on the Gardner last Sunday wasn't a bunch of Canadians. That was a mob of 3rd world trash that doesn't belong here.
What's important to remember is that the Tamil's aren't victims. They are mostly the architects of their own destruction. The Tigers are a terrorist group. The Tamil community is solidly behind them whenever they blow up a car bomb in a crowed market. Then they wonder why they get persecuted.
There are genocides going on in Tibet, Sudan. The Tamils believe that their genocide is more important than your genocide.
However,
What we saw on the Gardner last Sunday wasn't a bunch of Canadians. That was a mob of 3rd world trash that doesn't belong here.
What's important to remember is that the Tamil's aren't victims. They are mostly the architects of their own destruction. The Tigers are a terrorist group. The Tamil community is solidly behind them whenever they blow up a car bomb in a crowed market. Then they wonder why they get persecuted.
There are genocides going on in Tibet, Sudan. The Tamils believe that their genocide is more important than your genocide.
I am surprized that A VERY PROMINENT TERBITE has not weighed in on this Tamil stuff. 
must be a matter of "Ho's before Bro's"
must be a matter of "Ho's before Bro's"
If they call themselves "Tamils" rather than "Canadians" then yes they are not Canadian. I was not born in Canada. I was born in Scotland. My heritage is Scottish but I am Canadian and I call my self a Canadian. This country has been too good for me not too.
No red neck here...The Tamil Tigers are a Terrorist organization that would slit your throat at the drop of a hat. They do NOT deserve Canadian government support.
'Real' Canadians
A real Canadian is one that does not hyphenate (sp?).
They are CANADIAN - not Tamil-Canadian, Chinese-Canadian, Greek-Canadian....etc...
They fly the CANADIAN flag
They Cheer for CANADIAN teams
They learn either English or French (or both)
They do not maintain any prejudice or hatred from their 'old' country
They do not DEMAND that Canada change into their old country
Someone who comes to Canada to make a better life because they see it is a great country (and it really is) should not then try to remake it into the sewer they came from.
A real Canadian is one that does not hyphenate (sp?).
They are CANADIAN - not Tamil-Canadian, Chinese-Canadian, Greek-Canadian....etc...
They fly the CANADIAN flag
They Cheer for CANADIAN teams
They learn either English or French (or both)
They do not maintain any prejudice or hatred from their 'old' country
They do not DEMAND that Canada change into their old country
Someone who comes to Canada to make a better life because they see it is a great country (and it really is) should not then try to remake it into the sewer they came from.
I agree. It's more what they think of themselves than what others tell them they are. If they say they are Canadian... they are.Quest4Less said:
I often get asked where I am from, and I always say Canada first; then answer the question they are 'really' asking regarding my ancestory.
Why do I have to answer the question with two answers? Because as a visible minority, I can never really be Canadian.
Yeah, I'd kind of bought into the smug cosmo vision of Canadians, I guess I'll have to back to the Red Green / McKensey Brothers image..... shame indeed.red said:
OTB
The answer is pretty simple, and it isn't related to any single group, it is related to people.
If people immigrate to Canada and become "Canadian" (by integrating into our society, learning to speak the local language, participating however they feel in our society), then yes, they become Canadians. They share canadian values, they respect canadian laws, and (extreme version here) would be proud if their sons and daughters (or husband or wife for that matter) would join the military and fight in the defence of their one true country, Canada.
If people immigrate to Canada only to avoid some issue (real or imagined) and don't integrate into our society, then they aren't Canadians, they are just tolerated long term visitors / residents. Those are the type of people who never learn the language, don't participate in being Canadian, live only within their own "community", pine for home, don't deal with "non-community" members, send their children to "community" schools rather than mainstream, etc. They just want to bring their life and lifestyle from another country and live here, nothing more.
They are not Canadian. They might be Canadian one day (if they choose to join us as Canadians). If they don't,then they are just tolerated visitors, nothing more. Just choosing to live in Canada doesn't make you Canadian.
If people immigrate to Canada and become "Canadian" (by integrating into our society, learning to speak the local language, participating however they feel in our society), then yes, they become Canadians. They share canadian values, they respect canadian laws, and (extreme version here) would be proud if their sons and daughters (or husband or wife for that matter) would join the military and fight in the defence of their one true country, Canada.
If people immigrate to Canada only to avoid some issue (real or imagined) and don't integrate into our society, then they aren't Canadians, they are just tolerated long term visitors / residents. Those are the type of people who never learn the language, don't participate in being Canadian, live only within their own "community", pine for home, don't deal with "non-community" members, send their children to "community" schools rather than mainstream, etc. They just want to bring their life and lifestyle from another country and live here, nothing more.
They are not Canadian. They might be Canadian one day (if they choose to join us as Canadians). If they don't,then they are just tolerated visitors, nothing more. Just choosing to live in Canada doesn't make you Canadian.
Not picking on this one response, but since nobody has said it I will. In most of the postings that describe what being Canadian is, most forget to add the biggest indicator of all... You have to be 'caucasian/white/euro-decent' (you know what I mean). I know it's taboo to say, but let's call a spade a spade.BoringBob said:
