"Alternative" medicine?

happygrump

Once more into the breach
May 21, 2004
820
0
0
Waterloo Region
Has anyone had experience with so-called "natural" or "alternative" medicine actually working? Does anyone know of an online source that has proper, double-blind experiment results for "natural/alternative" therapies that don't have a sales agenda? Virtually all the sites I've seen are by manufacturers or distributors.

I've been dealing with a problem with eczema for a dozen years and the ONLY thing I've found that's really worked has been stuff prescribed from my physician. Every other "natural/alternative" remedy has just had the effect of removing money from my wallet. For instance:
Herbacort: no effect
Acupressure/acupuncutre: no effect, other than I looked like a pincushion
Chinese herbs: no effect on the eczema, but really stunk up the house
Emu oil: no effect
Dietary changes: no effect

Where can I go for unbiased, sales-pitch-free information with proper research, peer reviewed and published in an established journal (like, Lancet or New England Journal of Medicine or whatever)?
 

Naughty Alex

New member
Apr 16, 2003
199
0
0
Pure essential oil Lavender, two drops in your bath everyday, soak for no less than five minutes, after your bath use coco butter. Stay away from salt in your diet and drink lots of water.......its been known to reduce over time…

ah yes, no ad!
Note don't show signature... :D .............I am not a Doctor..
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
50,474
9,429
113
Toronto
happygrump said:
Does anyone know of an online source that has proper, double-blind experiment results for "natural/alternative" therapies

I've been dealing with a problem with eczema for a dozen years and the ONLY thing I've found that's really worked has been stuff prescribed from my physician. Every other "natural/alternative" remedy has just had the effect of removing money from my wallet. For instance:


Where can I go for unbiased, sales-pitch-free information with proper research, peer reviewed and published in an established journal (like, Lancet or New England Journal of Medicine or whatever)?
I'd say that you've been fortunate in your natural/alternative experiences. Fortunate in the sense that you've tried them for a non-life threatening malady. There are thousands of horror stories of people who have relied on these therapies for very serious conditions and failed miserably.

You will not find proper double-blind studies because the people who promote these products do not believe in proper scientific method. By definition, that is why they're alternative. That is also why you will not find what you're looking for in scientifically established publications as the New England Journal or Lancet.

Scientific method has been developed over centuries to provide the most reliable, although admittedly imperfect, methods for determining how and why things happen in the world. It is a way to establish that an occurance is repeatable and verifiable under consistent conditions.

As such it is no surprise that your best result has come from tradtional, established medicine. A product has to be rigorously tested under strict standards to be put on the market. Unfortunately because modern medicine cannot cure everything some people take that as a reason not to trust it for anything and turn to naturopathic or holistic methods. Granted there are some cases where alternative methods have worked where nothing else did, but nobody can explain why, because there are no proper studies and they only work for a very limited few.

The human body is very complex and it often does things that no one can explain even with the most advanced research. However scientific method explains things properly and predictably way more often than any other method and should only be abandoned when it cannot cure what ails you and there's nothing left to lose or if you're dealing with an inoccuous (sp?) situation. Doing otherwise is putting yourself at risk.

I'll admit that if I had cancer and the doctors couldn't cure it I'd try anything after that. But I most definitely would not put my initial faith in current-day voodoo witch doctors, which is basically what these holistic practitioners are.
 

Mr. Downtown

Active member
Aug 17, 2001
2,624
0
36
Centre Ice
Just throwing this suggestion out but have you seen a good alergist. A cousin of mine suffered from an extreme skin problem with his hands, taking all kinds of medications, etc etc and it turned out to be an alergy towards two forms of amino acids he was ingesting through his regular diet. Cutting out the food which contained concentrations of them solved the problem.
 

The Doctor

Still Without Humour
Jun 2, 2003
2,319
1
0
1060 West Addision
Cardinal Fang said:
I thank God every day for that.....
Alex said A Doctor, not THE Doctor (and she's not the latter either).

Quit trying to show off...that "direct line to God" thing is a little over-done.



*Then a loud thunderclap is heard and The Doctor is struck down by lightning as the cardboard clouds separate and a one-dimensional image of God appears with a smirk on his face*



Kind of like this====>GOD
 
Last edited:
Sep 8, 2003
3,768
0
0
Away from here.
www.reddit.com
Re: Re: "Alternative" medicine?

shack said:
I'd say that you've been fortunate in your natural/alternative experiences. Fortunate in the sense that you've tried them for a non-life threatening malady. There are thousands of horror stories of people who have relied on these therapies for very serious conditions and failed miserably.

You will not find proper double-blind studies because the people who promote these products do not believe in proper scientific method. By definition, that is why they're alternative. That is also why you will not find what you're looking for in scientifically established publications as the New England Journal or Lancet.

Scientific method has been developed over centuries to provide the most reliable, although admittedly imperfect, methods for determining how and why things happen in the world. It is a way to establish that an occurance is repeatable and verifiable under consistent conditions.

As such it is no surprise that your best result has come from tradtional, established medicine. A product has to be rigorously tested under strict standards to be put on the market. Unfortunately because modern medicine cannot cure everything some people take that as a reason not to trust it for anything and turn to naturopathic or holistic methods. Granted there are some cases where alternative methods have worked where nothing else did, but nobody can explain why, because there are no proper studies and they only work for a very limited few.

The human body is very complex and it often does things that no one can explain even with the most advanced research. However scientific method explains things properly and predictably way more often than any other method and should only be abandoned when it cannot cure what ails you and there's nothing left to lose or if you're dealing with an inoccuous (sp?) situation. Doing otherwise is putting yourself at risk.

I'll admit that if I had cancer and the doctors couldn't cure it I'd try anything after that. But I most definitely would not put my initial faith in current-day voodoo witch doctors, which is basically what these holistic practitioners are.
That is absolute nonsense.

Doctor-induced illness takes 10,000 lives every year in North America. The number of people that die as a direct result of using alternative medicine and/or natural approaches in the 100's.

These are facts.

Double-blind studies are currently being done on almost every major natural remedy on the market, many of which take ten years to complete.

There are maybe three or four natural remedies that governments in various countries have found "dangerous" or contraindicative to well being. That list includes ephedrine, kava kava (in massive doses of course) and perhaps two others I know of. Natural substances are not free of risk, but compared to mainstream drugs, it's a joke to even compare them.

Meanwhile, the side effects of common drugs are massive and enormous, hence warning labels filled with mice type that goes on for days.

To say that the best results come from "established medicine" is simply a confirmation of your worldview, not the fact of the matter. If I tree falls in the forest does anyone hear it? which in other words means: if there have been no massive studies actually completed on a natural product or therapy, how would anyone other than those who use it know that it works!

By the way, why are there so few completed studies on natural medicine?: They're expensive, and only drug companies can actually get a return on such studies by, suprise, selling a drug! Natural remedies are wholly inexpensive COMPARATIVELY, to drugs, therefore few companies will do studies on their effects becaus they rarely get their money back.

Mainstream doctors, have, on average, less than 20 hours of nutritional training during their years of training. The result: they are uncomfortable prescribing what they know little about, and their worldview develops accordingly.

Another example: heart disease, huge killer, all about reducing cholesterol and bypass surgery.

Dean Ornish MD, Clinton's physician for a time, and a leading expert in heart disease, found that meditation, yoga and/or a low fat diet--just those three things--reduced heart disease and bypass surgery by 30% or more!

He wrote a fascinating book linking hostility and early death from heart disease. He quoted study after study from the mainstream.

Traditional medicine views the heart as merely a pump. Emotions are "voodoo". We have a zillion metaphors in our psyche about the heart as an emotional realm, but when it comes to modern medicine, it's just a pump.

It took Ornish literally ten years to be taken seriously. If you have heard him speak or read his books, he is no quack.

I could go on for days.

(con't)
 
Sep 8, 2003
3,768
0
0
Away from here.
www.reddit.com
The bottom line is that mainstream medicine developed out of the worldview that essentially marked Western society, that of Descartes notion that man was simply a machine of interchangable parts, much like a car.

Meanwhile, the Chinese were busy creating another system based partially on an accident: doctors were forbidden to cut a body open in China, so had to rely on the relationship between body parts, and the subtle systems of cause and effect. The Chinese doctor won't dare talk about the liver in isolation, but the spleen and the stomach.

I have had amazing effects from acupuncture, but I also know plenty of people who have had zero effect. There are no miracle cures, just alleys you must pursue and forge on your own.

I have found as much hypocrisy and greed in alternative realms as in mainstream medicine. The independent mind will find nonsense on "both sides".

The difference is that natural therapies and remedies have been effectively strangled by the mainstream establishment and are only now getting a fair shake.

Us and them together = complimentary medicine, the only place anyone sensible will land.
 
Sep 8, 2003
3,768
0
0
Away from here.
www.reddit.com
happygrump said:
Has anyone had experience with so-called "natural" or "alternative" medicine actually working? Does anyone know of an online source that has proper, double-blind experiment results for "natural/alternative" therapies that don't have a sales agenda? Virtually all the sites I've seen are by manufacturers or distributors.

I've been dealing with a problem with eczema for a dozen years and the ONLY thing I've found that's really worked has been stuff prescribed from my physician. Every other "natural/alternative" remedy has just had the effect of removing money from my wallet. For instance:
Herbacort: no effect
Acupressure/acupuncutre: no effect, other than I looked like a pincushion
Chinese herbs: no effect on the eczema, but really stunk up the house
Emu oil: no effect
Dietary changes: no effect

Where can I go for unbiased, sales-pitch-free information with proper research, peer reviewed and published in an established journal (like, Lancet or New England Journal of Medicine or whatever)?
Michael Murray's Encyclopedia of Natural Medicine is an excellent start.

Prescription for Nutritional Healing, a bible available in virtually every health food store, is also excellent.

Here is an excellent report card on the pros and cons of natural medicine by Joseph Pizzorno, a superb naturopath. Many of you will find it sensible reading.

http://www.tldp.com/issue/11_00/pizzorno.htm
 

Guy Lafleuer

New member
Jan 16, 2004
175
0
0
HappyGrump,

I've got that eczema thing going to. I have since I was eighteen ( over twenty years ago ). I too use the steroid cream and it is effective for me. But it always returns and I have to apply the cream again. Not a big deal but I'm always having to refill the prescription. What's a little odd is everytime I go on vacation it clears up and doesn't come back until a week after my vacation. I also find if I reduce my coffee and booze intake, it seems to reduce it a lot. But I love and coffee and booze.

Guy
 

healer677

Dos XX at Senor Frogs
Jan 13, 2004
2,154
0
36
Playa Del Carmen Q.R.
Most of the treatments are scams! Most who believe in them follow mostly anecdotal "evidence" for their claims and most do not have a background in either medicine, pharmacology, anatomy and physiology or pathophysiology.

There have been too many cases that I've seen from adverse reactions via "alternative" treatments.

As far as I'm concerned, its your life and your money; do with it what you wish.

But me? no thanks I'll trust good old diagnostics via imagery and hematological and culture studies, then; treat it via surgery, and drugs (FDA approved of course).
 

Guy Lafleuer

New member
Jan 16, 2004
175
0
0
I have to agree with Mao Tse Tongue,

I was fortunate enough to meet a Chinese Doctor a few years back. I can't believe what he's done for me and members of my family. I used to get the flu, bronchitis etc... Whatever came around, I got it. I've been following his advise for 3 years now. I haven't missed a day of work in 3 years. I've also used accupuncture for my back and it's the only thing that has provided me relief. I highly recommend the stuff if you can find a good Chinese doctor. He also had a degree in Western medicine as well and I think he said it best when he told me that both Eastern and Western medicine/doctors can learn from each other.

Guy
 

BoxHunter

New member
May 29, 2004
131
0
0
mississauga
In addition to Naughty Alex's tried and true remedies for skin disorders, I suggest Vitamin E cream and capsules and Oatmeal baths.
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
50,474
9,429
113
Toronto
Go ahead and believe all that alternative crap if you want. My point of the alternative medicines being dangerous is that they rarely have any positive effect other than placebo. As a result the condition goes untreated and if it's a condition that progresses then that's what's going to happen. If it's a debilitating or worse, lethal, then that's what's going to happen.

Of course there are going to be adverse reactions to any type of medicine. The point is that they are effective on a much more consistent basis than the alternative therapies.

I realize that people have concepts in their mind that cannot be changed even when they're presented with facts and logic, so no sense trying. Nobody's going to do what he doesn't feel comfortable with. I know I wouldn't want to sail off the end of the world.
 
Ashley Madison
Toronto Escorts