After A Sexual Encounter You Find She's Transgender....

[Johnny Utah]

Let’s look at different point of views:

Men that find out and don’t care about any of it, the dishonesty or the past because of the experience, or their openness to accept people. No harm.

Men that care about at the very least, the deception. It doesn’t have to be homophobia. I am not homophobic, but I don’t desire to have sex with a trans not men, just a point of fact for me. The harm is the lie and an experience that was not agreed to. I don’t think it’s a legal issue, yet.

The trans person themselves. What do they have to gain with the dishonesty? Surely they must be happy and identify fully with this gender, and lying may increase sex partners either as a civilian or an SP, but even if the world is becoming more accepting, there still is a risk of assault due to deception no? Not to mention the irony of this person not “lying” to themselves about who they are and overcoming their biological limitation only to lie to other people?

I fully believe in transrights but I also believe to fully be acccepted by society, each class of society should be as honest and truthful as possible, otherwise the worse of each class perpetuates stereotypes and persecution.

Have not all disparaged groups benefitted by demanding and seeking acceptance for who they are? I wonder if they trans groups willingly accept like minded trans people to not offer full disclosure for partners. Although I can’t speak to that, I’d imagine they do not support it at all.

 

[ReaganAdams]

Here’s a few tips for those who may be caught in this situation, given the number of posts that show a LOT of worry about this:

1. Do a penis check (theirs) because you can never be too careful. If yes, leave. If no, proceed to 2.
2. Ask: “Is this pussy for real?” If no, leave. If yes, proceed to 3.
3. Ask: “no, really... did you used to be a guy?” If yes, leave. If no proceed to enjoy sex.

I do this before EVERY encounter because you can never be too careful. Of course there is still the risk that she lied and will say “Wanna clean up now, Hun?.... oh, and by the way I used to be a guy.” But I live with that fear.

NOTHING gets me more excited for a sexual encounter than having my genitals' and my gender's "legitimacy" questioned. You charmer, you.

 

[Aardvark154]

I thought this thread was unintentionally funny, now I have a serious question.

Does gender matter? It shouldn’t matter legally, it doesn’t determine sexual orientation. Why is anyone that concerned?

Truthfulness is important.

There are some for who transsexuality doesn't matter, there are others for whom it very definitely does matter. There are those for whom the pre-op, post-op difference does or doesn't matter.

The bottom line is knowing that there are people for whom it does matter why would a person (particularly an SP) not want to be up front about it and avoid the real problems that can ensue from not being up front about it?

 

[wigglee]

Truthfulness is important.

There are some for who transsexuality doesn't matter, there are others for whom it very definitely does matter. There are those for whom the pre-op, post-op difference does or doesn't matter.

The bottom line is knowing that there are people for whom it does matter why would a person (particularly an SP) not want to be up front about it and avoid the real problems that can ensue from not being up front about it?

If the buyer has certain phobias, it is up to him to do the research in order to avoid problems..... did he inquire specifically or just assume?

 

[managee]

The entire premise of this thread is a bit unrealistic.

Again, if she was transgender, you missed that she had a penis while having sex with her. How likely is that?

If she was born biologically male and is now a transsexual female, this thread is pretty telling of why it’s not in the best interests of the woman to disclose.

The path of least resistance here would be to just not mention it. If he didn’t notice, why spoil it? Plus, it limits her risk of being on the receiving end of a violent response.

The post-op (bottom) surgury women I know almost never talk about it, and don’t generally bring it up with people they don’t know well enough to really trust. It’s a deeply personal issue, and none of your business.

 

[JunoxGrey]

No one is obliged to give their medical history unless it has a medical impact on the other person such as passable disease. Which is why they don’t accept health cards at bars etc. You all could have been with a trans woman and you wouldn’t even have know it and had an amazing time.

 

[K Douglas]

Pre-op it is informed consent for sure. She still has a physical penis. That makes a difference for people.

Post-op - She has left her old life behind and is now completely a woman. There is no issue regarding consent of past sex or sex parts.



No it could not. Assaulting someone is assaulting someone. You can't use the excuse that she was transgender, you found out later and beat her. Doesn't work that way. Sorry.

I agree exactly.

 

[managee]

No one is obliged to give their medical history unless it has a medical impact on the other person such as passable disease. Which is why they don’t accept health cards at bars etc. You all could have been with a trans woman and you wouldn’t even have know it and had an amazing time.

Exactly!

You’d have to be incredibly transphobic to want to enact any kind of law that forces this kind of disclosure.

===

Nobody here has really been able to quantify or explain the actual ‘harm’ it causes them to find out they just had sex with a transperson.

 

[Zook]

 

[JunoxGrey]

while i don't think the law needs to get involved or that it amounts to sexual assault when someone lies about their biological sex, i do think it's fair game that when a client arrives and notices that this person was obviously not the person being advertised, to warn other clients about it.

I completely agree with that, that’s bait and switch and completely unacceptable but if it is the person is who is in the pictures then you were sexually attracted to her and went through with a session and after are having some kinda of internal struggle that’s not assault

 

[Occasionally]

No one is obliged to give their medical history unless it has a medical impact on the other person such as passable disease. Which is why they don’t accept health cards at bars etc. You all could have been with a trans woman and you wouldn’t even have know it and had an amazing time.

Disagree.

When it comes to sex, people want to know if the other person is a man or woman, or transgender. It's part of sex and most people don't want to have sex with someone they don't feel comfortable with. As a straight man, I want to be with someone who is 100% female from the beginning. Not a man, who changed into a woman.

It's like nitpicky vegetarians. No meat.

But I bet if a vegetarian or vegan ate a delicious dish, and the cook then told them there was meat in it, the person would be pissed off even though they couldn't tell.

Just because you couldn't tell someone or some product wasn't what was advertised doesn't mean it's ok.

 

[LT56]

People lie in relationships all the time. It’s not right...but it happens.

What if the guy only wants to have sex with a single woman and she turns out to be married?

What if the woman only wants to have sex with a rich guy and he lies about his income?

What if a guy only wants to date a Catholic girl and she lies about her faith?

Shit happens. There are no certainties or guarantees in life. If these things are of profound importance to someone then they should make sure they really get to know someone before sex or making other commitments.

If you get tricked then that sucks but I don’t think it’s for the courts to protect people from making bad sexual/relationship choices. Post a bad review...Complain to your therapist...whatever.

 

[managee]

Disagree.

When it comes to sex, people want to know if the other person is a man or woman, or transgender. It's part of sex and most people don't want to have sex with someone they don't feel comfortable with. As a straight man, I want to be with someone who is 100% female from the beginning. Not a man, who changed into a woman.

It's like nitpicky vegetarians. No meat.

But I bet if a vegetarian or vegan ate a delicious dish, and the cook then told them there was meat in it, the person would be pissed off even though they couldn't tell.

Just because you couldn't tell someone or some product wasn't what was advertised doesn't mean it's ok.

I’m with Juno and Dawn Lee on this one.

If she’s transgender and advertises without mentioning this, it’s definitely unacceptable. But I just don’t see this being a likely scenario in Toronto. If it’s happening, the guys who are meeting these women aren’t talking about it on TERB.

If she’s post-op transsexual, it’s totally her choice to mention it in an ad or in-person. If she’s 100% passable, I don’t see why she’d mention it. As Juno said, some of us here have probably been with these girls and were none the wiser. If you partake, you’re no different than you were before, and certainly no less straight for having done so. She advertised as female, and you got what you paid for.

If you didn’t directly ask her about her birth sex, or establish that you won’t tolerate a transsexual sexual experience, that’s on you. “Are you a woman?” isn’t good enough.

If you were VERY clear with your questions before booking or getting down, and she lied, that’s pretty shitty. I hope you warn this community should this happen to you.

But I see nothing wrong with her staying silent on it.

If getting weird with a t-girl terrifies you, make sure you do your homework before you commit to the act. But if you don’t ask, don’t expect her to tell.

People lie in relationships all the time. It’s not right...but it happens.

What if the guy only wants to have sex with a single woman and she turns out to be married?

What if the woman only wants to have sex with a rich guy and he lies about his income?

What if a guy only wants to date a Catholic girl and she lies about her faith?

Shit happens. There are no certainties or guarantees in life. If these things are of profound importance to someone then they should make sure they really get to know someone before sex or making other commitments.

If you get tricked then that sucks but I don’t think it’s for the courts to protect people from making bad sexual/relationship choices. Post a bad review...Complain to your therapist...whatever.

Yup.

 

[TeeJay]

I’m with Juno and Dawn Lee on this one.

If she’s transgender and advertises without mentioning this, it’s definitely unacceptable. But I just don’t see this being a likely scenario in Toronto. If it’s happening, the guys who are meeting these women aren’t talking about it on TERB.

If she’s post-op transsexual, it’s totally her choice to mention it in an ad or in-person. If she’s 100% passable, I don’t see why she’d mention it. As Juno said, some of us here have probably been with these girls and were none the wiser. If you partake, you’re no different than you were before, and certainly no less straight for having done so. She advertised as female, and you got what you paid for. .

There was a thread about a Toronto Thai provider who was post-op
I thought it was pretty funny if someone went with a dude then had the crying game afterwards

 

[managee]

There was a thread about a Toronto Thai provider who was post-op
I thought it was pretty funny if someone went with a dude then had the crying game afterwards

I have this image in my head every time I read some of the replies here:

 

[fall]

People lie in relationships all the time. It’s not right...but it happens.

What if the guy only wants to have sex with a single woman and she turns out to be married?

What if the woman only wants to have sex with a rich guy and he lies about his income?

What if a guy only wants to date a Catholic girl and she lies about her faith?

Shit happens. There are no certainties or guarantees in life. If these things are of profound importance to someone then they should make sure they really get to know someone before sex or making other commitments.

If you get tricked then that sucks but I don’t think it’s for the courts to protect people from making bad sexual/relationship choices. Post a bad review...Complain to your therapist...whatever.

The difference is in probabilities and ex-ante expectations. The proportions of post-ops among all female population (and among SP population) is extremely low, so, the expectation is that a given SP is a girl from the birth. Any small-probability events that are not expected by clients (e.g., being a post-op) should be explicitly stated in the SP's ad. I understand that we cannot distinguish a post-op from a regular girl and can enjoy sex the same way. The problem is an extreme mental pain and disgust that we can have if we later learn that she was a post-op. A vegetarian served with a dish that usually is strictly vegetarian but, in that particular restaurant, contained meat and who was told after the dinner that there was meat may suffer a disgust and anger of the same magnitude (and such moral suffering can be quite significant). Or, if you are a picky eater and a thought of eating a bug makes you vomit, how would you feel if you were told that your good but differently tasted burger was made entirely out of warms? Do you need a vomit bag? Sure, you will feel fine if you would not have known. So, if a post-op is 100% sure noone knows she is a post op, she may keep it to herself. If, however, there is a reasonable probability her past clients will learn about it, then such information should be disclosed at the ad.

By the way, one of the reasons post-op SPs want to keep their status silent is because most of the clients will not want to see post-ops regardless of what their politically correct statements are.

 

[Aardvark154]

If the buyer has certain phobias, it is up to him to do the research in order to avoid problems..... did he inquire specifically or just assume?

In this scenario the client inquired the SP lied.

https://terb.cc/vbulletin/showthrea...-Transgender&p=6023722&viewfull=1#post6023722

 

[Aardvark154]

I’m with Juno and Dawn Lee on this one.

If she’s transgender and advertises without mentioning this, it’s definitely unacceptable.

This is my feeling.

I'm NOT stating that violence is acceptable. However, to my mind you have to be damn stupid not to be forthright so that those who are uncomfortable are able to walk before they ever are alone with you.

 

[squeezer]

I suggest we make a list of SPs if allowed on Terb that were once men so we can book who we decide we want to engage sexually with and everyone is happy.

 

[managee]

In this scenario the client inquired the SP lied.

https://terb.cc/vbulletin/showthrea...-Transgender&p=6023722&viewfull=1#post6023722

I think the behaviour of the transperson in the scenario as described in OP can’t really be defended. I doubt anyone here will defend these actions.

As a scenario, it remains problematic in-terms of likelihood.

Thread title uses the term “transgender” - meaning she was born with male genitalia and is currently presenting as female in society. Pilar and stones are still there.

To be valid, the client would have had to miss this detail during the sexual act.

So, transperson is asked “were you born a woman?” to which she responds “no.” The sex happens. After the sex, she says “BTW, I was kidding. I was born a man. You can tell because I have this dick and these balls.”

If the OP doesn’t know the difference between transsexual and transgender, and the woman in the scenario had her bottom-surgery, (she’s a transsexual person, not transgender person) the same response except for the last sentence might be what we’d hear.

Why on earth would she do that? What would motivate her to lie THEN come clean during the same encounter, despite being passable enough for the guy she’s with to clearly not be able to tell on their own. She’s either going to lie and keep up the lie, or disclose. Not both.

The transphobes on TERB are a good example of the crossection of the guys women in the industry have the priviledge to meet. It’s not in the best interests of this transperson to lie if asked, or to reveal this lie if the client (or whoever) clearly couldn’t tell on his own during/after the sex act.

With the wrong TERBer, this omission could lead to violence.

So, they’re either going to be passable and not ever mention it, even when asked, hence why Juno and I think it’s possible people here have done it with a transperson and never knew. They lied, but you’ll never know it, and you’ll spend the rest of your life thinking she was 100% woman.

Or she’ll come clean when you ask her before the act, being cognizant that she can’t necessarily predict your response to finding out you just had sex with a person born a man, or noticing surgical scars or the fact that she has a penis during the act itself. Violence in the trans community, particularly violence against women who participate in the sex industry is a VERY real thing, and not something they intentionally put themselves at-risk or facing.

But no matter how long this thread goes, it’s not going to change that ultimately it’s her decision as-to whether or not she should disclose. Transgender people likely will, since you might notice their penis if you’re the least bit observant, and transsexuals MAY not.

This thread is proving that it’s not in their best interests to do so, as they (transsexuals) clearly miss out on a big part of the potential client base by divulging if they’re working as sex workers, or when meeting straight, cis-men as part of the club/dating scene.