Affirmative Action

[Darts]

Law firms are an interesting organization. Academic qualifications are important to a point but being a "rainmaker" is even more important. In many cases a good rainmaker has good family connections and that might be more important than academic qualifications.

BTW: We know at least one major Toronto law firm outsource their legal research to a firm in India.

 

[JohnLarue]

What makes you think I’m using other peoples money?

that's the loonie lefts MO

 

[Darts]

The linked article is 12 years old but I think it is just as true if not more true to-day.
BTW: My university roommate was ethnic Chinese from Singapore.
The enrollment controversy* (macleans.ca)

 

[tiberius6675]

Yes because failing school makes you SUCH a winner. Do you even listen to yourself?

Did you forget that the majority of billionaires are all dropouts? - Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, Larry Ellison etc? Marks are not always an indicator of future success.

 

[Darts]

that's the loonie lefts MO

View attachment 243297

President Biden has this brilliant idea you can borrow money and not have to pay it back. Sarcastic.

 

[Darts]

Did you forget that the majority of billionaires are all dropouts? - Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, Larry Ellison etc? Marks are not always an indicator of future success.

Not so sure about "majority".

I know both Gates and Zuckerberg dropped out of Harvard. I assume their marks, SAT and IQ, etc. must have been good enough to get into Harvard without AA (because they are both white).

Anyway, unless you think you are the next Gates, Zuckerberg, etc. my advice is to get at least an undergrad degree or they'll just throw your resume in the garbage.
You'd Be Surprised How Many Billionaires Don't Have a College Degree | Fortune

 

[JohnLarue]

President Biden has this brilliant idea you can borrow money and not have to pay it back. Sarcastic.

yeah, its pretty ironic that kids should seek a degree stating they have achieved a higher level of education
yet sleepy joe nullifies one of life's more important lessons- assuming responsibility
they signed a legal contract for the student loan & have a responsibility to honor that legal contract

 

[tiberius6675]

Not so sure about "majority".

I know both Gates and Zuckerberg dropped out of Harvard. I assume their marks, SAT and IQ, etc. must have been good enough to get into Harvard without AA (because they are both white).

Anyway, unless you think you are the next Gates, Zuckerberg, etc. my advice is to get at least an undergrad degree or they'll just throw your resume in the garbage.
You'd Be Surprised How Many Billionaires Don't Have a College Degree | Fortune

They are outliers for sure, but they are an example of how grades alone don't determine future success.

 

[Nathan 88]

that's the loonie lefts MO

View attachment 243297

I’m neither loony left or wacko, right.
You forgot to quote the rest of my post where I said, I paid for my kids education unlike you who are depending on donors to pay for your kids education.

 

[JohnLarue]

Did you forget that the majority of billionaires are all dropouts? - Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, Larry Ellison etc? Marks are not always an indicator of future success.

they are the expectations rather than the rule
drilling down deeper and you will find Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, Larry Ellison were all risk takers and posses entrepreneurial drive well in excess of the general public

I believe all three also stumbled upon cash generating opportunities which made further university studies redundant

for the majority, shitty marks is a pretty good indicator of poor future academic success

Most post secondary programs start at a level which assumes full & complete knowledge of the subject matter at the high school level
and the programs move forward at a rapid pace onto more complex concepts which build upon the full & complete knowledge of the subject matter at the high school level

if a student struggles with high school level math, they will get over whelmed in physics, chemistry, engineering, finance, iT programs . etc

 

[tiberius6675]

they are the expectations rather than the rule
drilling down deeper and you will find Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, Larry Ellison were all risk takers and posses entrepreneurial drive well in excess of the general public

I believe all three also stumbled upon cash generating opportunities which made further university studies redundant

for the majority, shitty marks is a pretty good indicator of poor future academic success

Most post secondary programs start at a level which assumes full & complete knowledge of the subject matter at the high school level
and the programs move forward at a rapid pace onto more complex concepts which build upon the full & complete knowledge of the subject matter at the high school level

if a student struggles with high school level math, they will get over whelmed in physics, chemistry, engineering, finance, iT programs . etc

It does not have to be poor vs great marks. It could be they score average but go on to be very successful.

 

[JohnLarue]

I’m neither loony left or wacko, right.

your ideologically position on affirmative action indicts otherwise

You forgot to quote the rest of my post where I said, I paid for my kids education

good for you
are you not relieved their acceptance was not bumped by affirmative action applications ?

unlike you who are depending on donors to pay for your kids education.

too funny
a common trait of the loony left is attack character when they run out of factual arguments

full scholarships are more of a USA deal, so not at all relevant to me
although most parents would be very proud if their child receives an academic scholarship
Very proud indeed if their child worked hard and made personnel / social sacrifices usually required to achieve the marks required for an academic scholarship

but in your loony left world, you managed to portray a kid receiving an academic scholarship as a negative
a common trait of the loony left is to find fault everywhere

 

[JohnLarue]

It does not have to be poor vs great marks. It could be they score average but go on to be very successful.

sure
academic success does not automatically translate into business success
and outstanding communication, interpersonal and/ or organization skills not taught in text books are often the springboard for many successful people

conversely
if a student struggles with high school level math, they will get over whelmed in physics, chemistry, engineering, finance, iT programs . etc

 

[Nathan 88]

your ideologically position on affirmative action indicts otherwise


good for you
are you not relieved their acceptance was not bumped by affirmative action applications ?




too funny
a common trait of the loony left is attack character when they run out of factual arguments

full scholarships are more of a USA deal, so not at all relevant to me
although most parents would be very proud if their child receives an academic scholarship
Very proud indeed if their child worked hard and made personnel / social sacrifices usually required to achieve the marks required for an academic scholarship

but in your loony left world, you managed to portray a kid receiving an academic scholarship as a negative
a common trait of the loony left is to find fault everywhere

You’re the one who attacked my character, first, which is more in line with the wacko right.
When you’re losing an argument like you, are, you tend to make stuff up like accusing me of portraying a kid receiving an academic scholarship as a negative, I never said that.
You’re the one who thinks it’s just fine to buy your way into university rather than earning it.
The bottom line is I like fairness for all, an equal chance for everybody and you want people with money to jump the queue.

 

[JohnLarue]

You’re the one who attacked my character, first, which is more in line with the wacko right.

I do not think so

post #211

I understand that money trumps grades with you.

that is character assignation & you made it personal

When you’re losing an argument like you, are, you tend to make stuff up like accusing me of portraying a kid receiving an academic scholarship as a negative, I never said that.

post # 243

unlike you who are depending on donors to pay for your kids education.

that definitely portrays my kid receiving an academic scholarship as a negative
it also completely disregards the effort & sacrifices the kid made to earn the scholarship

You’re the one who thinks it’s just fine to buy your way into university rather than earning it.
The bottom line is I like fairness for all, an equal chance for everybody and you want people with money to jump the queue.

Alumni donations in the USA are massive and pay the way for many kids to go to university via scholarships
it is only natural the Alumni donners will want their kids to be accepted @ their Alma mater
note: the Alumni know their kids need to apply with something better than C+, B- marks

Strick adherence to your ideology would eliminate legacy admissions.
However that would put the Alumni donations / scholarships at risk.

the good of legacy admissions out weighs the perceived bad
-the donations pay the way for many kids to go to university via scholarships

another trait of the loony left is failure to apply critical thinking / reasoning to a complex issue and instead default to the politically correct position as demanded by their ideology

the loony left also tend to ignore/ ( not even consider) the negative / unintended reactions their policy ideas would drive.

 

[Nathan 88]

I do not think so

post #211



that is character assignation & you made it personal





post # 243



that definitely portrays my kid receiving an academic scholarship as a negative
it also completely disregards the effort & sacrifices the kid made to earn the scholarship



Alumni donations in the USA are massive and pay the way for many kids to go to university via scholarships
it is only natural the Alumni donners will want their kids to be accepted @ their Alma mater
note: the Alumni know their kids need to apply with something better than C+, B- marks

Strick adherence to your ideology would eliminate legacy admissions.
However that would put the Alumni donations / scholarships at risk.

the good of legacy admissions out weighs the perceived bad
-the donations pay the way for many kids to go to university via scholarships

another trait of the loony left is failure to apply critical thinking / reasoning to a complex issue and instead default to the politically correct position as demanded by their ideology

the loony left also tend to ignore/ ( not even consider) the negative / unintended reactions their policy ideas would drive.

Look, this thread was about the affirmative action ruling which I agreed with, and it certainly seems like you do too.
I would prefer that all inequities be eliminated for college admissions, you don’t.
It seems that you would like people with a lot of money to have preferential treatment. if that’s the way you think, then fine that’s your opinion.
It really doesn’t help your argument to call me names and Loonie left(which I’m not) you’d be surprised how I vote.

 

[canada-man]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1674614633565388801

 

[Darts]

High marks do matter. When I applied to McGill many years ago the minimum standard to even be considered for admission was 70%.

To get ahead in to-day's world one needs at least an undergrad degree and possibly a graduate degree. Let's use Bank of Nova Scotia as an example.

The late Cedric Ritchie at age 17, the son of a potato farmer, began working as a teller in The Bank of Nova Scotia's Bath, New Brunswick branch. He rose to become CEO and Chairman. He was followed by Peter Godsoe,

Peter Godsoe
"he graduated from the University of Toronto Schools before receiving a Bachelor of Science in Mathematics and Physics from the University of Toronto and a MBA from the Harvard Business School. He is also a Chartered accountant and a Fellow of the Institute of Chartered Accountants of Ontario (post-nominal FCA)."

The days when a person could join one of the big banks (or most employers) with just high school leaving and rise to CEO or even much lower in the ranks are long gone. Employers also look where you got your degree. In Canada, degrees from the major universities are the most valued.

 

[Gooseifur]

I wish when I got a loan from a bank to start my business many years ago that a few years later they said "Fuck it, just keep it, you don't have to pay us back. We will get it from the Tax payers"

 

[toguy5252]

High marks do matter. When I applied to McGill many years ago the minimum standard to even be considered for admission was 70%.

To get ahead in to-day's world one needs at least an undergrad degree and possibly a graduate degree. Let's use Bank of Nova Scotia as an example.

The late Cedric Ritchie at age 17, the son of a potato farmer, began working as a teller in The Bank of Nova Scotia's Bath, New Brunswick branch. He rose to become CEO and Chairman. He was followed by Peter Godsoe,

Peter Godsoe
"he graduated from the University of Toronto Schools before receiving a Bachelor of Science in Mathematics and Physics from the University of Toronto and a MBA from the Harvard Business School. He is also a Chartered accountant and a Fellow of the Institute of Chartered Accountants of Ontario (post-nominal FCA)."

The days when a person could join one of the big banks (or most employers) with just high school leaving and rise to CEO or even much lower in the ranks are long gone. Employers also look where you got your degree. In Canada, degrees from the major universities are the most valued.

If course marks and the school from which you received those marks matter. I do not recall anyone including myself disagreeing.

That is not the point. The point is should marks be the only determining factor in getting into school or a job or should other factors be considered.
On this point you and I disagree.