Abortion...

[Svend]

Women that don't want a child don't choose to become pregnant, birth control isn't 100% and accidents happen.
We can call them irresponsible, but perhaps these are the people that aren't mature enough to raise a child.
I'm glad unwed mothers don't have the shame or stigma we once attached to them, but there no reason to give them a 20 year sentence for a mistake.
Adoption isn't without problems as well, some people never get over the feeling of abandonment and it can be difficult for mothers to have their newborn taken from them. If abortion is an option early in the pregnancy, then this trauma can be avoided.

 

[Quest4Less]

Question..

You have a choice to get pregnant or not , now in the case of rape I would say terminate the pregnancy asap.

So in the case of rape it's okay to have an abortion? Sorry friend but you can't have it both ways... either abortion is okay or it isn't.

How can you say that on one hand a fetus has rights and should be allowed to survive regardless of the mothers wishes, and then say that it's okay to terminate it under some conditions?

Are you pro-choice or not?

 

[RTRD]

You know...

Yes it does. It outlaws all abortions with the only exception being to save the life of the pregnant person. So like 97% of abortions currently done there would be criminals acts.

..I would bother explaining to you exactly my point using EXACTLY your words, but they would be lost on you...

 

[feminista]

In the case of rape the woman did not choose to have intercourse it was forced upon her. If a woman chooses to has intercourse she knows what her risks are and should have to face the music afterwards.

well thanks for admitting that. Most prolifers have a pregnancy as punishment mentality. they just don't usually acknowledge it.

If you really believe that abortion is killing a child then how can you allow it just because the pregnant person was raped?

I would bother explaining to you exactly my point using EXACTLY your words, but they would be lost on you

hardly brainiac.

 

[fuji]

Pro choice is the modern term for I don't want to be responsible.

An interesting opinion, but irrelevant to the question of rights.

FIRSTof all exercise you choice before you get pregnant once you get pregnant it's not your body alone sorry that argument doesn't wash. The fetus depends on the mother for life but not by choice. Some judges have considered charging mothers for taking drugs or excessive drinking , mothers that do that prove that prove that it doesn't take brains to be pregnant .
This type of mother shouldn't have a choice on anything . A fetus or future child deserves a right to a healthy future.

Basically you reiterated that you believe fetuses have rights and stated it again, then reiterated it. I accept that's your viewpoint. I can understand that it is a valid viewpoint. But you haven't given me any reason why I should think so as well. I don't think a fetus is a person, therefore, I for one don't think it has any rights.

In situations like this where there is such a disagreement about what the actual situation is, it does seem to me to be right to leave the decision up to each individual, to work out for themselves. You won't do it because you believe it is wrong; I will because I don't believe it is wrong. We'll each be happy and at peace with our own choice.

In my view to enact a law and actually make something illegal you need a broad consensus. That doesn't exist, there is instead a deep division.

 

[papasmerf]

An interesting opinion, but irrelevant to the question of rights.



Basically you reiterated that you believe fetuses have rights and stated it again, then reiterated it. I accept that's your viewpoint. I can understand that it is a valid viewpoint. But you haven't given me any reason why I should think so as well. I don't think a fetus is a person, therefore, I for one don't think it has any rights.

In situations like this where there is such a disagreement about what the actual situation is, it does seem to me to be right to leave the decision up to each individual, to work out for themselves. You won't do it because you believe it is wrong; I will because I don't believe it is wrong. We'll each be happy and at peace with our own choice.

In my view to enact a law and actually make something illegal you need a broad consensus. That doesn't exist, there is instead a deep division.

So who cares?

We all have opinions and you demand yours be relivant. Yet you dismiss others who disagree with you. This makes your opinion invalid.

 

[james t kirk]

Have you ever heard of an adoption waiting list.

1. There won't be enough prospective parents to adopt these children.

2. There are babies right now in the USA who are waiting to be adopted but they can't find homes for them.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/02/11/60minutes/main673597.shtml

 

[papasmerf]

1. There won't be enough prospective parents to adopt these children.

2. There are babies right now in the USA who are waiting to be adopted but they can't find homes for them.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/02/11/60minutes/main673597.shtml

I can find parents for every unwanted child within 60 days.

 

[A-ROD]

Hmmmm papasmerf in an abortion thread...

Things that could have happened

 

[fuji]

No one forces someone o bear a child against their will unless it's rape in which case it should be allowed asap.What happened to the free will not to get pregnant

Many people have responded to these assertions by taking issue with them, but there's no need to. It's an interesting comment on people, and such, but, from a legal/rights perspective, it hardly matters how or why a woman got pregnant, or whose fault it is, or isn't.

If a fetus doesn't have any rights it's a moot point.

If the fetus does have rights, but they don't trump the woman's right to control her own body, it's moot.

If the fetus does have rights, and they trump the woman's right to control her own body, it's moot.

So, in the end, it doesn't matter how she got pregnant. It is a question of whether the fetus has any rights or not, and whether those rights are superior to the woman's rights that they conflict with.

As an irrelevant but fun side commentary on the state of modern society, sure, it's an interesting topic, but it won't lead to a resolution of this question, no matter how it is answered.

 

[papasmerf]

Hmmmm papasmerf in an abortion thread...

Things that could have happened

I have personal reasons to find this wrong

Aside from the coat hanger before I was born

 

[A-ROD]

I have personal reasons to find this wrong

Aside from the coat hanger before I was born

LMAO

 

[james t kirk]

I can find parents for every unwanted child within 60 days.

No you can't.

The above link shows that there are plenty of babies in the USA available for adoption that are not wanted. Why?

Because they are black.

White people want nice little white babies.

They don't want babies, they want WHITE babies.

There have been 41 million abortions done in the USA since Roe V Wade.

There simply are NOT enough prospective adoptive parents to soak up 41 million unwanted children, especially the non-white ones (of which there will be I can assure you.)

Sure, some of those mothers may decide to keep their children, but many are loath to the idea of being parents, most are probably not ready, or not prepared, or not able to raise a child.

I love the term, "Right to Life"

Nothing could be a bigger crock of shit.

What the anti-abortion crowd really mean is a, "Right to Birth"

And after that, tough shit for you kid. After the birth has occured, the "Right to Birth" crowd considers their mission accomplished.

Well, I am sorry, but coming up with a sucessful human being takes a lot more than a right to life. The birth process is a few hours, the raising process is 18 to 25 years.

Who's going to pay for that?

You?

I doubt it.

There will be millions of unwanted children in the USA if abortion is outlawed.

To the anti-abortion crowd I say, "fine, if you are want to ban abortion of unwanted children, then you'd better be prepared to step up to the plate with YOUR WALLET because it's going to cost large to support millions of unwanted children. Your taxes are going to go up.

The right to birth crowd tends to be right wing conservatives who generally think that they already pay too much in taxes.

Well guess what, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. You know, that cause and effect thing.

So tell me Papa Smerf, are you willing to pay more tax to look after these children?

The US has THE worst child care of any industrialized nation right now.

Fully 20% of all children live below the poverty line RIGHT NOW in the USA.

I don't hear the "Right to Birth" crowd harping about protecting them.

Are they not innocent too?

Do they not warrant protection from hunger, ignorance, and poor health RIGHT NOW?

How come that is?

You will hear the Right to Birth crowd crowing about "Welfare Mothers" and the "Welfare State" and ending any kind of assistance.

So tell me again about how you are going to support all the unwanted children that will result from banning abortion, cause I am all ears....

 

[papasmerf]

No you can't.

The above link shows that there are plenty of babies in the USA available for adoption that are not wanted. Why?

Because they are black.

White people want nice little white babies.

They don't want babies, they want white babies.

There have been 41 million abortions done in the USA since Roe V Wade.

There simply are NOT enough prospective adoptive parents to soak up 41 million unwanted children, especially the non-white ones.

Sure, some of those mothers may decide to keep their children, but many are loath to the idea of being parents, most are probably not ready, or not prepared, or not able to raise a child.

I love the term, "Right to Life"

Nothing could be a bigger crock of shit.

What the anti-abortion crowd really mean is a, "Right to Birth"

And after that, tough shit for you kid.

Well, I am sorry, but coming up with a sucessful human being takes a lot more than a right to life. The birth process is a few hours, the raising process is 18 to 25 years.

Who's going to pay for that?

You?

I doubt it.

There will be millions of unwanted children in the USA if abortion is outlawed.

To the anti-abortion crowd I say, "fine, if you are want to ban abortion of unwanted children, then you'd better be prepared to step up to the plate with YOUR WALLET because it's going to cost large to support millions of unwanted children. Your taxes are going to go up.

The right to birth crowd tends to be right wing conservatives who generally think that they already pay too much in taxes.

Well guess what, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. You know, that cause and effect thing.

So tell me Papa Smerf, are you willing to pay more tax to look after these children?

The US has THE worst child care of any industrialized nation right now.

Fully 20% of all children live below the poverty line RIGHT NOW in the USA.

I don't hear the "Right to Birth" crowd harping about protecting them.

Are they not innocent too?

Do they not warrant protection from hunger, ignorance, and poor health RIGHT NOW?

How come that is?

You will hear the Right to Birth crowd crowing about "Welfare Mothers" and the "Welfare State" and ending any kind of assistance.

So tell me again about how you are going to support all the unwanted children that will result from banning abortion, cause I am all ears....

You give me unrestricted access and I will

 

[james t kirk]

You give me unrestricted access and I will

Unrestricted access to what?

 

[papasmerf]

Unrestricted access to what?

unwanted newborns

we are talking abortion here, thus newborns are the question

 

[james t kirk]

unwanted newborns

we are talking abortion here, thus newborns are the question

Yep, and my point is that there are simply not enough resources to raise millions of unwanted children into happy healthy stable human beings.

It's going to cost large.

ARE YOU WILLING TO PAY FOR IT WITH YOUR TAX DOLLARS?

WILL YOU SUPPORT RAISING YOUR TAXES TO SUPPORT AND RAISE UNWANTED CHILDREN?

There are not enough prospective adoptive parents.

Who is going to raise these children?

 

[papasmerf]

Yep, and my point is that there are simply not enough resources to raise millions of unwanted children into happy healthy stable human beings.

It's going to cost large.

ARE YOU WILLING TO PAY FOR IT WITH YOUR TAX DOLLARS?

WILL YOU SUPPORT RAISING YOUR TAXES TO SUPPORT AND RAISE UNWANTED CHILDREN?

There are not enough prospective adoptive parents.

Who is going to raise these children?

I can place3 serveal hundreds a day withing 2500 miles of me

and hundreds of thousands yearly, world wide

 

[james t kirk]

I can place3 serveal hundreds a day withing 2500 miles of me

and hundreds of thousands yearly, world wide

NOT ENOUGH.

There are simply not enough prospective parents to adopt the numbers we are talking about.

You could see this in Romania when Chaucesceu (spelling) banned abortion there and you had hell hole orphanages sprouting up everywhere. You had kids growing up in cages because people simply don't care, or can't care.

You still keep dodging my question (like all good right wing conservative right to birth types)

Would you be willing to have your taxes raised to pay for millions of unwanted children to be raised properly?

18 years each?

 

[papasmerf]

NOT ENOUGH.

There are simply not enough prospective parents to adopt the numbers we are talking about.

You could see this in Romania when Chaucesceu (spelling) banned abortion there and you had hell hole orphanages sprouting up everywhere. You had kids growing up in cages because people simply don't care, or can't care.

You still keep dodging my question (like all good right wing conservative right to birth types)

Would you be willing to have your taxes raised to pay for millions of unwanted children to be raised properly?

18 years each?

Try me