All by themselves. I'm sure there are quite a number of historians and a few Terbies who would disagree with that
A Plea for Caution From Russia
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Bourgeois "morals" don't interest me
Why not add that murder is a fine idea after all that was another wonderful Bolshevik "reality."Sure, we are not talking about colonialism hear, after all.What is most sad is that you believe it was okay for the Soviets to invade Poland and kill off prominent poles just to make a buffer zone against an attack they weren't even expecting.
Hopefully you make sure that all you interact with know that you don't believe in "Boureois morality." I'm sure I'm not the only one who would avoid anyone so utterly rudderless.
It is a far better metric than Stalinist 'morals' where any atrocious act is acceptable as long as it has Uncle Joe's say so.Bourgeois "morals" don't interest me,...
Which is just saying that morals of any kind don't interest you.Bourgeois "morals" don't interest me
You have bought into the Stalinist bullshit that it is ok to purge, murder, and starve millions of people in the name of ideology.
Numerous quotes from Charles de Gaulle and Winston Churchill would back this up.. It was the soviets that did most of the destruction over all to the Germany Army. BTW, I did not say "by themselves". But they did win and the on the Eastern Front they were on their own.All by themselves. I'm sure there are quite a number of historians and a few Terbies who would disagree with that
I have no problem with violence tool for political means. When we are talking about war I don't understand why you are evening bringing this up, what does it have to do with anything so far? And why did you put reality in quotation marks?Why not add that murder is a fine idea after all that was another wonderful Bolshevik "reality."
Did you want to be friends beforehand or something?Hopefully you make sure that all you interact with know that you don't believe in "Boureois morality." I'm sure I'm not the only one who would avoid anyone so utterly rudderless.
You put it better than did I.Which is just saying that morals of any kind don't interest you.
You have bought into the Stalinist bullshit that it is ok to purge, murder, and starve millions of people in the name of ideology.
Hyperbole.It is a far better metric than Stalinist 'morals' where any atrocious act is acceptable as long as it has Uncle Joe's say so.
No it isn't.fuji said:Which is just saying that morals of any kind don't interest you.
If you want to get philosophical about it I suppose I can refer you to Makarenko as one straight up empirical example; and you can read Lenin, Marx, Stalin, etc. and learn about dialectical and historical materialism and how that applies to one's outlook as Marxist; or you can study the Great Proletarian Revolution and learn something about Proletarian Morality in war, socialist society, etc.
More hyperbole.You have bought into the Stalinist bullshit that it is ok to purge, murder, and starve millions of people in the name of ideology.
BTW when is the last time you heard of a famine in Russia? Previous to the 1930s it happened almost every 13 years or so. Thanks to collectivization, socialization and industrialization under Stalin never again.
You are one an impossible mission here. On Terb, as in the hollywood movies, it was the exceptional americans that defeated Hitler. In actual fact, the communists of Europe fought fascism already in Spain, and it was the CCCP that did the heavy lifting in defeating the nazis. Without Stalin, those of us born in Europe would have been speaking (only) german now.Hyperbole.
No it isn't.
If you want to get philosophical about it I suppose I can refer you to Makarenko as one straight up empirical example; and you can read Lenin, Marx, Stalin, etc. and learn about dialectical and historical materialism and how that applies to one's outlook as Marxist; or you can study the Great Proletarian Revolution and learn something about Proletarian Morality in war, socialist society, etc.
More hyperbole.
BTW when is the last time you heard of a famine in Russia? Previous to the 1930s it happened almost every 13 years or so. Thanks to collectivization, socialization and industrialization under Stalin never again.
The 1917 Russian Revolution was a miserable failure. It brought the Ruskies Lenin followed quickly by Stalin.
Did you know that the Americans refused to take Berlin because they fear 100,000 casaulties? So, they left the dirty job up to the Russians.
Did you know that the Americans refused to take Berlin because they fear 100,000 casaulties? So, they left the dirty job up to the Russians.
Simplistic, simplistic, simplistic.On Terb, as in the hollywood movies, it was the exceptional americans that defeated Hitler. . . . Without Stalin, those of us born in Europe would have been speaking (only) german now.
Anyone who knows anything about the ETO of World War II knows that the Russians did the heavy lifting. However, it would have taken the Soviets a great deal longer, that is assuming they had not been completely defeated by Germany, if the British Empire and Dominions and the U.S.A. had not been in the war. Further, as ugly as it may be to say this, by 1944 the U.K. and Canada* were at the edge of their manpower and endurance, without the U.S. they would not have been able to sustain the effort, this was not true of the U.S.A., although it would have indeed have been vastly more difficult.
To quote John Donne: "No man is an island, Entire of itself, Every man is a piece of the continent, A part of the main." That also applies to the World War II Allied Powers.
*Australia and New Zealand after the Desert War had their hands full in the Pacific.
Are you out of your *&^%^ mind! Are you unfamiliar with the Голодомор (Gholodomor) the deliberate government-made mass famine in Ukraine and Southwestern Russia in 1932 -1933. Mass famines in Russia and Ukraine other than due to crop failures are entirely a product of the Soviet Period and the death tolls where greater than before the revolution by many orders of magnitude.BTW when is the last time you heard of a famine in Russia? Previous to the 1930s it happened almost every 13 years or so. Thanks to collectivization, socialization and industrialization under Stalin never again.
By the way most of those saved from the Russian famine of 1921 (The Povolzhye famine) were fed by the American Relief Administration, led by Herbert Hoover.
Simplistic, I agree, but slightly more accurate and less simplistic than your often repeated assertions that the US saved all of us from Hitler.Simplistic, simplistic, simplistic.
Anyone who knows anything about the ETO of World War II knows that the Russians did the heavy lifting. However, it would have taken the Soviets a great deal longer, that is assuming they had not been completely defeated by Germany, if the British Empire and Dominions and the U.S.A. had not been in the war. Further, as ugly as it may be to say this, by 1944 the U.K. and Canada* were at the edge of their manpower and endurance, without the U.S. they would not have been able to sustain the effort, this was not true of the U.S.A., although it would have indeed have been vastly more difficult.
To quote John Donne: "No man is an island, Entire of itself, Every man is a piece of the continent, A part of the main." That also applies to the World War II Allied Powers.
*Australia and New Zealand after the Desert War had their hands full in the Pacific.
I love watching/reading history lightweights like MTM dig themselves deeper and deeper with every post and the pinkie DM cheering him on.Hyperbole.
No it isn't.
If you want to get philosophical about it I suppose I can refer you to Makarenko as one straight up empirical example; and you can read Lenin, Marx, Stalin, etc. and learn about dialectical and historical materialism and how that applies to one's outlook as Marxist; or you can study the Great Proletarian Revolution and learn something about Proletarian Morality in war, socialist society, etc.
More hyperbole.
BTW when is the last time you heard of a famine in Russia? Previous to the 1930s it happened almost every 13 years or so. Thanks to collectivization, socialization and industrialization under Stalin never again.
Except that, I never said anything like that.You are continuing to argue that it is ok to kill millions of people in the name of ideology. It's bullshit.
It's a shame that people have to work so hard to try and dismiss this truth. Thanks for the great post!You are one an impossible mission here. On Terb, as in the hollywood movies, it was the exceptional americans that defeated Hitler. In actual fact, the communists of Europe fought fascism already in Spain, and it was the CCCP that did the heavy lifting in defeating the nazis. Without Stalin, those of us born in Europe would have been speaking (only) german now.
Putting aside your "what if" fiction about the Eastern Front...Simplistic, simplistic, simplistic.
Anyone who knows anything about the ETO of World War II knows that the Russians did the heavy lifting. However, it would have taken the Soviets a great deal longer, that is assuming they had not been completely defeated by Germany, if the British Empire and Dominions and the U.S.A. had not been in the war. Further, as ugly as it may be to say this, by 1944 the U.K. and Canada* were at the edge of their manpower and endurance, without the U.S. they would not have been able to sustain the effort, this was not true of the U.S.A., although it would have indeed have been vastly more difficult.
To quote John Donne: "No man is an island, Entire of itself, Every man is a piece of the continent, A part of the main." That also applies to the World War II Allied Powers.
*Australia and New Zealand after the Desert War had their hands full in the Pacific.
No one has actually denied any of the things you've said and you're not disproving anything that danmand or myself has said.
And built a super power. After the fall of the Soviet Union life expectancy plummeted to almost that of before 1917 for some time (until Putin cleaned things up). But during the USSR it was on par with the west. Industry actually developed as much as 50x as some western countries during Khrushchev.The 1917 Russian Revolution was a miserable failure. It brought the Ruskies Lenin followed quickly by Stalin.
Yeah and they dropped bombs all over Hiroshima, Nagasaki and Dresden killing hundreds of thousands of civilians for absolutely no reason.Did you know that the Americans refused to take Berlin because they fear 100,000 casaulties? So, they left the dirty job up to the Russians.
It was not deliberate, and that was the last famine. The numbers for Ukraine are also highly exaggerated with roots source from Hearst and his Nazi pals. Read "Fraud, Famine and Fascism" by D. Tottle.Are you out of your *&^%^ mind! Are you unfamiliar with the Голодомор (Gholodomor) the deliberate government-made mass famine in Ukraine and Southwestern Russia in 1932 -1933. Mass famines in Russia and Ukraine other than due to crop failures are entirely a product of the Soviet Period and the death tolls where greater than before the revolution by many orders of magnitude.
Though you are correct the numbers where higher due to kulaks burning grain and livestock rather than sell it to the state and a practical civil war between peasants and kulaks. No one was going to stand by and allow for the city and peasants to starve so kulaks could be rich.
The point, here?By the way most of those saved from the Russian famine of 1921 (The Povolzhye famine) were fed by the American Relief Administration, led by Herbert Hoover.
