A Kinder, Gentler 2020-21 Toronto Maple Leafs thread

[superstar_88]

Every team in the league values size. I'm sure including the Leafs. My take it that because every team puts a premium on size these players get drafted earlier than they should. Tyler Biggs as an example. Smaller skilled players have more value when it comes time to pick because of this. Certainly if 2 players have the same skill and one is bigger any team would pick the bigger player. I would like to think Leafs as well. Leafs unlike other teams don't put the same premium on size. Clearly they put the emphasis on skill first. There was a draft year where they focused on size. Matthew's draft year I believe. Almost every player they picked that year was big. I don't think any of those players are on the Leafs radar right now.

Like everyone else I think Leafs need bangers but they need to be able to play the game as well.
Leafs are letting Gauthier go. That tells you he isn't good enough no matter his size.
There's a reason they traded for Clifford last year. Wayne Simmonds may very well play that role this year.
Unless he goes to Montreal, a team it appears that is going big.

 

[mellowjello]

You can't make guys who have never been physical in their entire hockey career to become that way. He's talking out of his ass as usual. There were two big defensemen taken right after the Leafs pick. I would have rather had them draft one of those guys. We have enough small soft skilled players. He likes to collect those. In my eyes he traded Kapenen and then drafted someone like him. The guy is 2-3 years. away but still try something different. I really don't think he can. Hesays he doesn't want guys on his team who can't "skate" What does that mean. Mark Stone is an average skater. I wish the Leafs had a guy like that.

If Amirov lives up to projections, he'll make an impact before any defenceman will unless he's a superstar in the rough.
A defenceman would be the most logical choice especially with the ones available, but I don't think they have the timeframe.
If they got Amirov to add to what they have instead of moving somebody out to get a player to fill a weak spot, I agree, it's a total waste.

Your first thought is totally correct.

 

[Gooseifur]

If Amirov lives up to projections, he'll make an impact before any defenceman will unless he's a superstar in the rough.
A defenceman would be the most logical choice especially with the ones available, but I don't think they have the timeframe.
If they got Amirov to add to what they have instead of moving somebody out to get a player to fill a weak spot, I agree, it's a total waste.

Your first thought is totally correct.

What difference does it make if it's 3 or 4 years? They need defensemen, good ones. To me they are harder to find then small skilled players. You can find those on any team. if one of those 2 defence men live up to projections they could be top 4 or even a top 2 pairing which is more valuable then a small skilled guy

 

[Gooseifur]

Every team in the league values size. I'm sure including the Leafs. My take it that because every team puts a premium on size these players get drafted earlier than they should. Tyler Biggs as an example. Smaller skilled players have more value when it comes time to pick because of this. Certainly if 2 players have the same skill and one is bigger any team would pick the bigger player. I would like to think Leafs as well. Leafs unlike other teams don't put the same premium on size. Clearly they put the emphasis on skill first. There was a draft year where they focused on size. Matthew's draft year I believe. Almost every player they picked that year was big. I don't think any of those players are on the Leafs radar right now.

Like everyone else I think Leafs need bangers but they need to be able to play the game as well.
Leafs are letting Gauthier go. That tells you he isn't good enough no matter his size.
There's a reason they traded for Clifford last year. Wayne Simmonds may very well play that role this year.
Unless he goes to Montreal, a team it appears that is going big.

They have already tried their style of play, skill with holding on to the puck. How did that work out for them? It's not just about size as you pointed out with Gautier. He was soft and played like a small guy. It's about grit and determination. Marchand is small, so is Pavelski, but there are tough and hard to play against. The problem lies in the fact that Dumbass only looks at skill. Yes they put an emphasis on skill but so did Tampa Bay and it didn't work out for them. Once they added 3-4 guys with heart and grit their fortunes changed. Hopefully Dumbass has seen the light but I doubt it.

 

[mellowjello]

What difference does it make if it's 3 or 4 years? They need defensemen, good ones. To me they are harder to find then small skilled players. You can find those on any team. if one of those 2 defence men live up to projections they could be top 4 or even a top 2 pairing which is more valuable then a small skilled guy

I think it's a small window of opportunity.
Matthews has 4 years left on his contract, no guarantee he will stick around.
Tavares' skill set will start diminishing in a few years, he's 30 now, you think he'll be the same player in 4 years?
Muzzin will be gone in 4 years, another D you'll have to fill, he's 31 now, he won't be the same guy in a couple of years.

When Dubas signed Tavares, he was going for it sooner than later.

 

[superstar_88]

Every team aside from TB thinks their team needs fixing right now.
The last game Muzzin played the Leafs played their style and it was a work of art.
They looked great.
Without Muzzin they looked nothing like that team.
I agree the team needs more heart and grit.
Ultimately everything is needed.
Which TB has.
High end skill (not necessarily bangers)
Norris like Defender with supporting cast. TB had Luke Schenn as a 7th. Leafs had Marincin.
A Vezina quality goalie.
Finally bangers and grit.

Don't forget TB did not win a single playoff game last year and won the max this year.
I would say the difference was Hedman more than anything else.
He was injured and didn't play last year. This year MVP.

 

[Gooseifur]

I think it's a small window of opportunity.
Matthews has 4 years left on his contract, no guarantee he will stick around.
Tavares' skill set will start diminishing in a few years, he's 30 now, you think he'll be the same player in 4 years?
Muzzin will be gone in 4 years, another D you'll have to fill, he's 31 now, he won't be the same guy in a couple of years.

When Dubas signed Tavares, he was going for it sooner than later.

I don't think Tavares will be the same player in 2 years. If he's going for it now then why trade Kapanen? This guy is just another Kapanen. A small guy with skill.

 

[superstar_88]

It's about reallocating funds to defense. In a salary cap world that's how things work.
Marincin as your 7th is not going to cut it.
That's one injury away to disaster.
There are 12 forwards on a team and only 6 defensemen so there's more depth on forward to cover for injuries.
Injury on defense has a bigger impact.

 

[mellowjello]

I don't think Tavares will be the same player in 2 years. If he's going for it now then why trade Kapanen? This guy is just another Kapanen. A small guy with skill.

Kapanen doesn't have much skill, he's an unbelievable skater. That's why they traded him.
They tried him with Matthews when Nylander was AWOL, a complete flop on that line.
And probably the most inconsistent player on the team.

 

[Gooseifur]

Kapanen doesn't have much skill, he's an unbelievable skater. That's why they traded him.
They tried him with Matthews when Nylander was AWOL, a complete flop on that line.
And probably the most inconsistent player on the team.

I disagree he does have skill. He was a 1st rd pick remember? He scored 20 goals last year and 13 this year playing on the 2nd and 3rd line. That's not bad. I don't expect much more from the guy they just drafted. He will probably play on the 2nd or 3rd line when he's ready. He was inconsistent but no worse than Kerfoot, Johnsson, or Engvall,

 

[mellowjello]

I disagree he does have skill. He was a 1st rd pick remember? He scored 20 goals last year and 13 this year playing on the 2nd and 3rd line. That's not bad. I don't expect much more from the guy they just drafted. He will probably play on the 2nd or 3rd line when he's ready. He was inconsistent but no worse than Kerfoot, Johnsson, or Engvall,

You're saying he's no worse than players that are all expendable.
And I'm not saying that he doesn't have skill, he doesn't have much of it.
Hyman had 21 goals each of the last 2 seasons, I know on the top line, but he was doing all the dirty work, he missed 20 games last year, 10 the year before that.
Do you consider him a "skill" player.

 

[Archer2012]

Leafs cut Freddy Gauthier and Jeremy Bracco loose...no qualifying offers tendered to the yesterday

Not surprising - I think I said somewhere what a terrible skater Freddy is and does not use his size at all either - honestly I thought he had nudes of Dumass or something - I could never figure out how he stuck?

 

[mellowjello]

Not surprising - I think I said somewhere what a terrible skater Freddy is and does not use his size at all either - honestly I thought he had nudes of Dumass or something - I could never figure out how he stuck?

I could never figure out how he couldn't figure out what needed to do to stick around.

 

[John Wick]

They have already tried their style of play, skill with holding on to the puck. How did that work out for them? It's not just about size as you pointed out with Gautier. He was soft and played like a small guy. It's about grit and determination. Marchand is small, so is Pavelski, but there are tough and hard to play against. The problem lies in the fact that Dumbass only looks at skill. Yes they put an emphasis on skill but so did Tampa Bay and it didn't work out for them. Once they added 3-4 guys with heart and grit their fortunes changed. Hopefully Dumbass has seen the light but I doubt it.

Agree. Right now, I'd say Muzzin and Hyman are actually the toughest, grittiest players on the team. After that, it's a pretty sharp drop off. You need at least 2-3 more to make the team really hard to play against, and yes, you may have to trade off skill and experience to acquire it. Dubas says his core is essentially AM34, JT91, MM16, MR44, and FA31. Okay, let them play their skill game and surround and support those 'skill' guys with some tougher pieces. In the cap world, that may mean you need to deal guys like Nylander. It hurts, but that's how it goes. He's simply one too many of the same 'kind'. The bigger issue is that beyond the core, the overall talent level of the rest of the roster is too low. Just too many AHL guys filling NHL caliber roster spots. That has to change. Some pieces should come from the draft, others through trades and FA. Problem is that KD isn't necessarily the greatest judgement of talent, and is too inexperienced to get trades done. Shitty performance as a result doesn't make Toronto an appealing prospect unless KD offers to overpay, which he usually does, just to the wrong talent. Now the money's dried up. Which top UFA's will be lining up to take a haircut to play in Toronto? Vicious circle. You break it by firing KD.

 

[smuddan]

I could never figure out how he couldn't figure out what needed to do to stick around.

I‘ve followed Gauthier since he was drafted. He has never shown any first line potentials and the projected ceiling was a checking centre. He suffered a very serious injury a few years back because of a dirty hit from a notorious cheap shot artist (his name escapes me but it’s the same guy who was speared in his nuts by Marchand) and i think that might have made him even more tentative. He’s a big guy with weak legs and that’s why there’s very little “power” in his skating and he loses balance easily.

 

[mellowjello]

I‘ve followed Gauthier since he was drafted. He has never shown any first line potentials and the projected ceiling was a checking centre. He suffered a very serious injury a few years back because of a dirty hit from a notorious cheap shot artist (his name escapes me but it’s the same guy who was speared in his nuts by Marchand) and i think that might have made him even more tentative. He’s a big guy with weak legs and that’s why there’s very little “power” in his skating and he loses balance easily.

Jake Dotchin, Tampa / Syracuse.
He was ruthless.

 

[Darts]

Jake Dotchin, Tampa / Syracuse.
He was ruthless.

He also took a run at Matthews.

"Dotchin also took a run at Leafs centre Auston Matthews during a brief call-up to the NHL."
https://www.thestar.com/sports/leaf...or-season-ending-hit-on-marlies-gauthier.html

So far, this is just an unfounded rumor.

"Rumor: Kyle Dubas Is Looking To Add Size & Aggression To Maple Leafs Roster"
https://www.nhltraderumors.me/2020/08/kyle-dubas-is-looking-to-add-size.html

 

[Gooseifur]

You're saying he's no worse than players that are all expendable.
And I'm not saying that he doesn't have skill, he doesn't have much of it.
Hyman had 21 goals each of the last 2 seasons, I know on the top line, but he was doing all the dirty work, he missed 20 games last year, 10 the year before that.
Do you consider him a "skill" player.

Most 3rd line players don't have a lot of skill. No I don't consider Hyman a skill player. How would he do playing on the 3rd line? Would he even score 10? That's my point you don't just need skill to score. If you grind and put forth a lot of effort it can be done that way if you're put with other guys who have skill and create chances.

 

[Darts]

Let the money flow (subject to cap space). It is now UFA and RFA season.

 

[Darts]

Most 3rd line players don't have a lot of skill. No I don't consider Hyman a skill player. How would he do playing on the 3rd line? Would he even score 10? That's my point you don't just need skill to score. If you grind and put forth a lot of effort it can be done that way if you're put with other guys who have skill and create chances.

Without going into chapter and verse on "skills", I'll just say Hyman has a different set of skills that makes him valuable to a team. For example, Gainey and Carbonneau were not elite scorers but they are both in the HHOF.

Guy Carbonneau - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org