6 People shot, Possibly 2 dead

[Esco!]

Sorry esco! but the shooting was not a San Franseco, it was a California Sandwiches.

aayyyyeee.......I stand corrected.
But you get my point, dont you??

 

[RTRD]

Interesting solution...

Last I read on the Star website and saw ion Global it was 5 shot 1 dead.

A couple of the survivors are in critical condition according to media reports.

Police have apprehended to young men of unmentionable race creed or color becauswe "no one wants to take responsibility for having raised them".

Yes..that is my political statement. There are some people who are god fearing, by the book, love everone parents who go all the distance and still end up with problem kids. I'm not talking about them. They tried...they cried, they showed up, they lead children by the ear...they DID everything they could for their kids to do better than them. My heart bleeds for those parents. You can't alaways win. But to damn sure they tried.


Then you have the parents who amazed to learned their...yes THEIR 14 yr old has been out all night stealing cars!!! I'm sure it was a "one time thing".

"Why officer you say it's been 15 months?" "And you have pictures of him doing that???" "AHA...so OFFICER...it's your fault for not stopping him"!!!

Thats the attitude that pisses me off.

Lets not cut corners. Some kids are going to be trouble. NOT all of them.
You want an answer to whats happening now?: Stop looking to a level of government to be the parent to your child.

You want to stop kids going to jail...make ONE parent...and even if they are not married...the other who proves to be a parent..does the other 12 hours shift...WITH THE CHILD IN JAIL!

Yep...your kid did this....you spend the time with him/her. How many kids do you think would reoffend if the spent 24 hours a day in a cell with a parent when they're 15?

More importantly why should it be so needed for parents to do their jobs?

Not depend on any government to ensure your kids have manners and respect? Is that too much to ask now?

The problems always go back to bad parenting...in 99.9%. We can't fix that whacky bastard .01 percent....but if we don't start taking responsibility for our kids....ALL races..ALL religions..EVERY person....we are in trouble.

It's now completely out of hand. I see 2006 being the year of Police violence. THEY HAVE to DO something! And the result may not be palitable to many...but it's coming.

Going to be an interesting year coming up.


M2


No..I cannot spell when on a tangent....it's not personal if ir pissed you off!

Lets not cut corners. Some kids are going to be trouble. NOT all of them.
You want an answer to whats happening now?: Stop looking to a level of government to be the parent to your child.

You want to stop kids going to jail...make ONE parent...and even if they are not married...the other who proves to be a parent..does the other 12 hours shift...WITH THE CHILD IN JAIL!

Yep...your kid did this....you spend the time with him/her. How many kids do you think would reoffend if the spent 24 hours a day in a cell with a parent when they're 15?

More importantly why should it be so needed for parents to do their jobs?

Not depend on any government to ensure your kids have manners and respect? Is that too much to ask now?

The problems always go back to bad parenting...in 99.9%. We can't fix that whacky bastard .01 percent....but if we don't start taking responsibility for our kids....ALL races..ALL religions..EVERY person....we are in trouble.

I'm not sure it is fair....haven't ever known someone who had 2 or 3 great kids and one fucking asshole? Can we blame the parents in that case? I'm also pretty sure it would nver stand a constitutional challenge (but I am more familiar with U.S. law versus Canadian)...but there could be some civil liability.

I get your overall point though - that parents need to be more aware of who their child is and what they are doing.

I remember after the Columbine massacre repeatedly asking myself "how is it that your kid has an entire ARSENAL of bombs and guns in your house and you don't knwo about it"? Parents often simply abandon parenting, I believe sometimes because they literally fear their kids.

On that point I think the government DOES play a role. When, as a parent you have no more options, should not society step in?

In summary though, I get your point and I think you are right. I would say though that we cannot assume that is what happened here - that the parents were absent. Could be the case...might not be. Thus I'd have a problem with any sort of "automatic" sentence for parents who have children that commit crimes (what about the rest of the family, btw? Why punish them by having one of their parents be absent, a 50% decrease in household income, etc...).

But overall I "hear" you...parents need to do more parenting...

 

[RTRD]

Exactly...

You don't think a $200billion fraud like Nortel has social consequences, what about Bre-X, Portus...

...just because the white collar criminals don't pull the trigger it doesn't mean there isn't impact.

I'm not saying the trigger pullers are not cuppable. My personal perspective on crime is that those who are gulity should be punished SEVERLY...far more so than Canada does on a whole. Really, I'm of the mindset that certain crimes tell me that you are not a human - at least not of the same nature as myself - and thus don't deserve human respect, privileges and dignities. Many experts don't believe punishment is a deterrant...I don't believe that. Ever notice how little crime there is in most Muslim nations?

Having said all that, I do believe there is soem connect between what the contempt white collar criminals have for the law and lawlessness in general. The have nots cannot commit multi billiobn dollar frauds....yet they want a peice of the pie that apparently everyone but them is entitled to. So...they do the crime they can. It isn't RIGHT...but doesn't everyone want a better live for themselves? And if some 50 something white guy can get there buy stealing millions and putting thousands out of work while driving thousnds more to the poor house when their pensions are wiped out, how can we blame a 20 something Black kid for figuring hijacking a liquor store is all good?

Again - not saying that crimimals shouldn't burn...because frankly more sick of it than any of you guys, for reason I can't even begin to explain here...but don't think for a second that there is no corealation between publicized white collar crme and "blue collar" crime...

 

[RTRD]

Actually...

My point was that if the children are not being taught right from wrong, or what is acceptable behavior and what is not from their parents, they will get their impressions from popular culture. I see it all the time - everyone from 12 to 25 (just using this as a for instance) wants to be a gangster. Give me a break!

I see it all the time - everyone from 12 to 25 (just using this as a for instance) wants to be a gangster.

...embracing a culture and commiting crime are NOT the same thing. If they were, then most of you 70 rock loving guys would be herion addicted drop outs, right?

Don't make the same foolish mistake your parents (and their parents) did. Address the ISSUE...as best we can...not just outward appearance.

 

[RTRD]

Exactly...

Bad parenting plays a part, but the real root of the problem is economics. Reduce poverty and you'll reduce crime. Give young, poor blacks economic opportunities and they'll be far less likely to engage in high risk, highly dangerous activities like drug dealing and gang violence.

A part of me says "Kill 'em all, let god sort 'em out", but that's just an emotional response to a tragic situation. Locking them up, increasing jail sentences, instituting the death penalty, blaming the parents, caning the perps; none of that will change anything. It's all after-the-fact, reactionary responses. To end the cycle, you need to break the chain at the source: economic opportunity and standards of living. But that's a much bigger endeavour than anyone wants to take on. It's much easier to look for someone to blame.

It's obvious there's a HUGE problem in the black community and it needs to be fixed--even if large elements of the black community itself won't admit it. Until longterm solutions can be put into effect, the only thing I can think of is a dramatic show of force by the police in any and all areas where violent crime rears its ugly head. If that looks like an occupying force in black communities, so be it. Enough is enough.

Bad parenting plays a part, but the real root of the problem is economics. Reduce poverty and you'll reduce crime. Give young, poor blacks economic opportunities and they'll be far less likely to engage in high risk, highly dangerous activities like drug dealing and gang violence.

..but like you said, the solutions are difficult and no one wants to embrace them.

I for one don't entirely agree that tougher stances won't help the problem somewhat...but you are right, it is not a permanent solution.

I'm not sure the "Black community" would object so much to an "occupying force" Police presence....if they felt they could really trust the police. That is the thing though...many, many people of color do not. I know I don't - I've never been robed, mugged, shot or experienced any form of violent crime...Black on Black or any other. I dont'r spend tons of time in known "bad" neighborhoods, but I don't live in fear either. On the other hand, I HAVE been harrased by the police, pull over for no reason, questioned for no reason. I've seen on this very board what (many) white people think of a person who looks like me - without knowing a damn thing more about me than what I look like. If, in my ignorance and prejudice (because we all suffer from that disease to some degree) I assign such attitudes and behaviors to all whites, then I sure as hell don't want to see them walking through my neighboorhood in jackboots carrying guns...

 

[playa]

I'm not saying the trigger pullers are not cuppable.

 

[RTRD]

And yet...

Let them do hard time....I always hear how they play video games, watch movies, and lift weights. That's NOT doing time.
They don't want to work...just participate in criminal activity to earn a living!!!
And....the thing about young blacks not being given the oppurtunity, that's a bunch of crap...go out and prove yourself like alot of others have. Go out and look for the opportunity, don't wait for it to be given to you. There are alot of young white's that are unemployed too, so don't use the race issue.

Go out and look for the opportunity, don't wait for it to be given to you. There are alot of young white's that are unemployed too, so don't use the race issue.

..you did.

Because young white kids don't commit crimes, sell "X" and in general cause hell, right?

I wonder if you'd get the police forces in middle Canada to agree with you...

As someone pointed out already, it isn't about race, it is about poverty. People of color are the predominate poor in Toronto, hence most of the gun / gang violence springs from those communities.

Go to Edmonton, Winnepeg or Calgary though and ask the police who are commiting the crimes there...

 

[RTRD]

I'm good with that...

Absolutely!!!!!

If anyone is caught with a gun outside their home automatically gets 10 years in prison. Anyone convicted of attempted murder with a gun gets 25 years and life for any murderer. Must serve at least 3/4 of their sentence.

...especially THIS part...

If anyone is caught with a gun outside their home automatically gets 10 years in prison.

I personally have never understood why ANYONE who isn't in law enforcement needs to posses a handgun. So - if you are caught with one outside your home (loaded - or with ammo that is unlocked) you got to jail. Period. You'd have a lot less people carrying gun who end up committing crimes that they didn't start the day off planning (becaue most of this violence is random I suspect)

But you know who would object to that right?

 

[RTRD]

It certainly...

It's all about deadbeat dads.

...is ALOT about Dads who are not present - deadbeat or not.

 

[RTRD]

Thank you....

just to play devils advocate, would you participate in these spot checks? would you allow cops in your building/subdivision/housing project/apt/condo and have a quick look and see? would you allow a quick anal prob you know just to check for crack, i mean you've got nothing to hide right?

what about people who look mafioso? i mean you don't wan to be treated like a mafioso type stop wearing some ridiculous hugo boss clothing right? gangsta types stop wearing your bling or you will be targeted, mafia types stop wearing pinky rings. or italian gumba gangsters exempt from the profiling of gangsters?

male middle aged and white upper midle class to high class, fits the profile of someone usually guilty of tax fraud, insider trading, false accounting, and other types of corp crime. should we profile all white middle aged wealthy males? no because like you said that would imply race. so move to clothing, anyone wearing a ridiculously expensive suit or driving a ridiculously expensive car should be targeted and audited.

just trying to draw paralles. we all know it's much easier to target gangsta types, and it is this group that we have created in our minds and thru the media that commit the crimes that we are insensed about. just trying to point out the problems and hypocracy involved in some of the talk about the slippery slope of reducing civil rights.

...you, usually when people talk about taking away civil liberties for the greater good, it isn't THEIR civil liberties they had in mind...

 

[RTRD]

You know...

Do you think a good parent is someone who let their kids dress like thugs?? why do you have to dress with pants down your kness and t-shirts that are like 3 sizes bigger? who in the hell is going to give a job to this people? do you need more explanation??

...I think the same think every time I say some blonde skank dressed like Brittney Spears.....BAD PARENTS!

You don't have kids, do you? At least not teens....

 

[souljax33]

As someone pointed out already, it isn't about race, it is about poverty. People of color are the predominate poor in Toronto, hence most of the gun / gang violence springs from those communities.
.

This is not about poverty, anyone can get a job IF they want to BUT they don't!! they don't want to make a living earning minimal wage while they can make thousands selling drugs!!

 

[souljax33]

...I think the same think every time I say some blonde skank dressed like Brittney Spears.....BAD PARENTS!

You don't have kids, do you? At least not teens....

Well those blonde "skanks" are NOT KILLING PEOPLE!!

 

[RTRD]

Now see....

I'm not a racist, I have friends from many countries and I always find that 90% of the crime commited in the U.S and Canada are gang and black related, should I be punished because I said that?? this is a free country right? but I guess is not their fault, maybe all the rappers and gansta stuff is to blame????

when some actually post something like this:

that 90% of the crime commited in the U.S and Canada are gang and black related,

...they instantly reveal themselves to be both bigoted AND lack in intelligence.

90% of all crime committed by less than 15% of the population. Really.

You know, the reason you "find" this is because you want to believe it is true, and apparently do not have the intellience to question such a RIDICULOUS assertion...

Hell, I am FAR more afraid of people like you than I am of young Blacks.

You are probably a cop too, aren't you?

 

[RTRD]

There are...

This is not about poverty, anyone can get a job IF they want to BUT they don't!! they don't want to make a living earning minimal wage while they can make thousands selling drugs!!

...literally mountains of statistics that would disagree with you, but I wouldn't expect you to understand them...

 

[souljax33]

If the Gov would decriminalize crack and other narcotics, produce and sell it for almost nothing/give it away at "safe houses" it would put all these scum bags out of business and force them to get a normal job like the rest of us.

It wouldn't be hard to spend a few million on upgrading a few University chem labs with new equipment and some mid to high end security and let all the graduate students do the manufacturing as research/co-op.

Unfortunately the cops wouldn't like that since the money would be going back directly into the community instead of their budgets, and the jail system would probably have their budgets cut too..

legalizing drugs would end this crime fueled by illegality and profits of illegal drugs, what make you think this people are going to get a job for minimal wage when they can make thousands selling drugs?

Pretty sad but the same laws create the crime and if drugs were legalized a lot of people that profits from this market,(lawyers, prisons, judges, police etc)wouldn't like it at all.

 

[Back Burner]

There's a big difference.

When was the last time you can remember a Don Corleone type shooting up a shopping mall and killing a 15 year old girl who got in the way.

Usually when the mob kills somebody, that somebody had it coming.

This girl was just beyond innocent as are so many other victims of black gang violence this year.

In April 2003 Louise Russo was shot and 4 Italian men were charged. It turns out that it was a mob hit gone wrong. Just thought I should remind you.

 

[RTRD]

Which...

Well those blonde "skanks" are NOT KILLING PEOPLE!!

...is utterly irrelevant to both your and my point.

But I wouldnt' expect you to understand that either...

 

[james t kirk]

aayyyyeee.......I stand corrected.
But you get my point, dont you??

Louise Rousseau, and yes, I get your point. There was a mob / hells angels connection I read in the Globe and Mail.

However, the Louise Rousseau travesty is the only time in recent memory I can think of the mob doing that. Maybe there are others, I dunno.

 

[souljax33]

...is utterly irrelevant to both your and my point.

But I wouldnt' expect you to understand that either...

No I dont!! because it doesn't make ANY SENSE!!