6 People shot, Possibly 2 dead

[Cobster]

They've released the identity of the 15 year old victim who died:

http://www.pulse24.com/News/Top_Story/20051228-007/page.asp

Extremists and supremecists are definitely gonna use this.

It so unfortunate and sad though. 15 years old. Damn those punks.

I really hope the extremists and supremacists don't. It wasn't a a racially motivated shooting. (maybe between the gangs).

 

[Lor]

And look at the quote in the Pulse News...

"That’s when a volley of shots rang out that cops believe came from dueling gangs who didn’t care about the innocent bystanders."

So there you have it. What killed this poor girl was a lack of respect for life, a lack of common decency, a lack of simple humanity.

My friends in TO, I believe you are about to dive deeper into what has been America's great debate...the culture war.

Psst...just don't let the Conservatives be the ONLY ones with solutions. They WILL seize the opportunity. Confront the issue head on, with a deliberate and thoughtful approach. And consider root causes that you might otherwise fear or not want to deal with. It'll be easier now than later.

 

[Judas H]

So would a criminal go to the government and get his PAL, in order to obtain a firearm?

Of couse not, but he would steal it from someone who did.

 

[Cobster]

Of couse not, but he would steal it from someone who did.

See my previous posts (the ones you didn't reply to) regarding the kinds of measurements that are required to own and store a gun.

You didn't want to take me up on the challenge of finding statistical information regarding legitimate and illegitimate gun killings in Toronto over the past 10 years.
My guess is, the facts will scare you and prove you wrong.

 

[Judas H]

See my previous posts (the ones you didn't reply to) regarding the kinds of measurements that are required to own and store a gun.

You didn't want to take me up on the challenge of finding statistical information regarding legitimate and illegitimate gun killings in Toronto over the past 10 years.
My guess is, the facts will scare you and prove you wrong.

So what if they have to take precautions...It doesn't make a difference to me if they have to lock it and double stamp it with no erasies.

A teenager can get to that gun and so can a criminal.

I think ALL guns should be banned.

 

[rogerstaubach]

here we have another man who lacks basic comprehension.

Show me where you saw me blame OTHERS and I am waiting. I am sure that if you took the time to re-read the post you will see I am attacking the notion that hip hop has anything to do with people being violent. I am asking the poster if hip hop was around to make others violent back in the 'old days'. How did you PICK blaming others for black violence out of that??? My point was violence has been around since the beginning of time and to blame it on hip hop is LUDICROUS.

Geeez, did you attend school in August?

I figure its just that you have had a hard on for me ever since I exposed your intellectual frailty.

You are a common example of a black man who is jealous of another JUST because he gets tail YOU WISH you could get. Thats one of the main reasons for this type of nonsensical violence. Its attitudes like yours. These bums are just YOU with gun acting on their petty jealousies and wanting to be like or better than the other. Stop hounding me. I live my life and you live yours.

Listen, I have no sympathy for those who see the need to take another's life and I dont have patience for guys who have nothing better to do with their lives than to hound another man for no reason, making up stuff about him in the process. I now regret not praying for you over the holidays so that the Lord could bless you with the ability to comfortable in your own skin and not be jealous of others.

So are you stating that being a black man you do ACKNOWLEDGE AND ACCEPT that it is black youths who are gunning down black youths and innocent citizens in Toronto?

Try to leave the Russian and Italian mobs, the KKK, the pedophiles, the Corporate crooks, and all sorts of sundry distractions out of the reality of black youths gunning down black youths and innocent civilians in Toronto.

Acknowledge, accept and take responsiblity Franky.

 

[Esco!]

They've released the identity of the 15 year old victim who died:

http://www.pulse24.com/News/Top_Story/20051228-007/page.asp

Extremists and supremecists are definitely gonna use this.

It so unfortunate and sad though. 15 years old. Damn those punks.

Here's a better pic of her:

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/12/28/shooting-Toronto051228.html

She was kinda cute too.

 

[franky66]

Well in complete honesty, I think it's the magnitude and the scope of it (hip hop - a partial factor).
Back in the "old days" I don't think it was so much influence from TV or movies - ie - Al Capone era (a bit far and a stretch, but an example nonetheless).
In days like that, it was more circumstance. You honestly think gangsters back then, watched a music video, filled with crap about guns, women and cars, then consciously went out and killed people for those reasons? (tv was just starting around back then, and the reasons weren't because of any media influence...they were self-fulfilling)
Same goes for Gotti, you really don't think he was doing it because of media influence do you?
What did these punks on Monday do it for? On a busiest shopping day of the year, out in the open.
Talk about a methodical plan (even then they're geniuses! for doing it at such a time )
As for Arnold movies (and others of the same sort), back in the 80's, I don't think the gun violence was as bad (was it you who brought up "Ahnold" as the example?). It was fiction based, it wasn't standing in front of a mansion, preaching about life with 2 hot hoochie momma girls on either side of you, and huge bling-bling swinging on your neck. It was entertainment.

You also have to look at the ages of these kids now. Say worst case scenario, they're all 18, pushing 19. That leaves them the past 5 years in which they are starting to really soak up stuff they see, hear (and read, if they're doing that at all). They are making their own decisions (a lot of them stupid ones). They are growing up in a time where the media is pushing shit like hip-hop (the 50cent kind...personally I love Mase's stuff from back in 97/98, which he didn't go around touting guns).
I personally believe it got started just in the past few years and with the advent of the internet, where the ball really got rolling say, 6 years ago.
What these tweens/teens are being is exposed to a lot of crap, with some good stuff. They make the decision and the choice in what to watch and what they find appealing. In turn, believing what they want.

all of that is irrelevant. You are making BASELESS assumptions. Do you know these people personally? How the hell are you going to know what 'drove' them to committ crime?

Some people are just evil. It is as simple as that. For people to blame this on a music shows their lack of understanding of human nature. Some people are good. Some are bad. This is a part of life. What are you going to blame child molestation on? What are you going to blame wife beating on? What are you going to blame this and that on?

I would love to know.

Listen, people on a whole are just tribalistic. They have been that way before hip hop. They have been that way before the movie Scarface(which most hip hoppers emulate leading to this state of violent rap). They have been that way before Capone and such. The violent mind of the human goes waaaaaaaaaaaay back and it spans the globe.

Yes, a few cases can be attributed to violent movies, violent music and sill WWF like the 12 year old boy who killed a 6 year old girl in Florida by practing moves he learned from watching WWF.

So, rock music makes white kids go and shoot up a school and take their classmates with them just because they dont want to live anymore?

Before blaming violence on any one thing I think you need to examine each situation separately rather than making blanket statements. Like anything in life each case is different.

I am sure you will see more brazen public shoot outs in movies than you will EVER see in music videos so by your theory maybe its those movies to be blamed? Like HEAT and such? Right? By your theory of course

 

[franky66]

They've released the identity of the 15 year old victim who died:

http://www.pulse24.com/News/Top_Story/20051228-007/page.asp

Extremists and supremecists are definitely gonna use this.

It so unfortunate and sad though. 15 years old. Damn those punks.

yep, note the story plays upon "the pretty blonde teenager". Would never see a "pretty chinese teenager".

That said, its past unfortunate. Disgusting and terrifying. It could have been anyone's child. All involved should get life without parole.

 

[franky66]

So are you stating that being a black man you do ACKNOWLEDGE AND ACCEPT that it is black youths who are gunning down black youths and innocent citizens in Toronto?

Try to leave the Russian and Italian mobs, the KKK, the pedophiles, the Corporate crooks, and all sorts of sundry distractions out of the reality of black youths gunning down black youths and innocent civilians in Toronto.

Acknowledge, accept and take responsiblity Franky.

You are starting to sound like a house slave. I take responsibility for my own actions and not that of others. Knock yourself out if you want to kneel before every non-black and beg for forgiveness, ok Toby?

I didnt ask my ex wife to apaologise for slavery(well Swedes didnt own slaves so....) and on going racism. Why would I? I didnt ask her friends nor did I ask my employers etc etc etc (get the drift yet?)

BTW: weren't you the one on here bitching about how the cops were racist to approach you while you sat in your car in a strip club parking lot downing a burger? YOU are one to talk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Here is a heads up. You are in the parking lot of a STRIP CLUB possibly loitering. The cops ARE going to pay ATTENTION to YOU regardless of your skin colour. Ok???? Next time eat your burger at the burger place.

On the other hand, it seems the references to other groups(made mostly by others and backed up by me) and the crimes they commit seems to have gone straight over your head. Ever heard of context?????????? You know what, nevermind.

 

[tboy]

Actually, the movie "Heat" is an reverse example of what you are talking about Franky. It is loosely based on the incident in LA where the armed bank robbers were dressed in body armor that the police weapons couldn't penetrate.

Anyhow, I think that all the violence in movies/videos/etc DO have an impact on those that are exposed to it. The deciding factor is parental guidance, without a caring parent teaching a kid that what they see is only fiction, and it is morally wrong, I can see the impact being more dramatic.

I agree that basically, many humans are prone to violence without any external influence. The problem in our soceity is that all the do-gooders think that nature and those that are more prone to violence, can be changed and made to think differently. Maybe so, but IMHO to stop someone from repeatedly being violent is to tell them ONCE that if they commit violent acts, they will either lose their freedom or their life...EOS

If some punk has a gun, and he knows that if he is caught with it he will either forefit his life or his freedom forever, he might just think twice about keeping it. Sure, there will be some that won't care, but I believe that if a law like this stops 1 kid from using a handgun, then it is worth it.

BTW: I feel this law should also apply to those supplying the handguns as well. Right now, maybe MAYBE those importing the guns MIGHT go to jail for a limited time. What you have to do is make the penalty so severe, it won't be worth the risk.

 

[playa]

Some people are just evil. It is as simple as that. For people to blame this on a music shows their lack of understanding of human nature. Some people are good. Some are bad. This is a part of life. What are you going to blame child molestation on? What are you going to blame wife beating on? What are you going to blame this and that on?

Agreed. To blame any of this shit on hip hop or rap etc. is just plain retarded. It just shows ignorance and hidden agendas. Instead of looking at what was actually used to commit the crime or the mindset of the murderers, people choose to focus on rap. Gimme a break!! Franky is right that alot of rap artists are influenced by Scarface, Godfather..etc. Hell, Tupac was calling himself a "Cappo". Biggie called himself a "Don".
Some people just can't stand to see urban youth getting paid. However, when Martin Scorcese comes out with "Gangs of New York" its the best thing since sliced bread. Go figure?

 

[T0R0NT0 M4PL3 L3AFS]

Scumbag, lowlife parasites, with disregard for the life of others! I hope the losers who are responsible rot in prison and take it up the ass the rest of their sorry useless time they have remaining on earth!

Burn in Hell!

 

[franky66]

Actually, the movie "Heat" is an reverse example of what you are talking about Franky. It is loosely based on the incident in LA where the armed bank robbers were dressed in body armor that the police weapons couldn't penetrate.

Anyhow, I think that all the violence in movies/videos/etc DO have an impact on those that are exposed to it. The deciding factor is parental guidance, without a caring parent teaching a kid that what they see is only fiction, and it is morally wrong, I can see the impact being more dramatic.

I agree that basically, many humans are prone to violence without any external influence. The problem in our soceity is that all the do-gooders think that nature and those that are more prone to violence, can be changed and made to think differently. Maybe so, but IMHO to stop someone from repeatedly being violent is to tell them ONCE that if they commit violent acts, they will either lose their freedom or their life...EOS

If some punk has a gun, and he knows that if he is caught with it he will either forefit his life or his freedom forever, he might just think twice about keeping it. Sure, there will be some that won't care, but I believe that if a law like this stops 1 kid from using a handgun, then it is worth it.

BTW: I feel this law should also apply to those supplying the handguns as well. Right now, maybe MAYBE those importing the guns MIGHT go to jail for a limited time. What you have to do is make the penalty so severe, it won't be worth the risk.

I know it was based on an actual incident but I am dealing with the 'visual' aspect of this not necessarily what is based on what. Alot of these idiots in music videos will say the same thing. I am rapping about what I been through yadda yadda(some lies of course). I am just dealing with the visuals bro because some jackass is going to see it and say "Thats wicked" or "Thats cool" or however they say it. I am out of touch with the latest lingo.

 

[baltimoron]

Actually, the movie "Heat" is an reverse example of what you are talking about Franky. It is loosely based on the incident in LA where the armed bank robbers were dressed in body armor that the police weapons couldn't penetrate.

Minor correction: Heat was released in 1995. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0113277/

The North Hollywood robbery took place in 1997.
http://www.cnn.com/US/9702/28/shootout.update/

Some of the bank robbers' girlfriends said they watched the movie, but it remains just a police theory that the movie influenced the actual robbery.

http://www.moviepoopshoot.com/elsewhere/197.html

Continue discussion ...

 

[franky66]

Minor correction: Heat was released in 1995. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0113277/

The North Hollywood robbery took place in 1997.
http://www.cnn.com/US/9702/28/shootout.update/

Some of the bank robbers' girlfriends said they watched the movie, but it remains just a police theory that the movie influenced the actual robbery.

http://www.moviepoopshoot.com/elsewhere/197.html

Continue discussion ...

Shyt, looks like I watched Heat after the bank robbery. Damn. I could have sworn Heat was based on the incident.

Thanks

 

[souljax33]

Scumbag, lowlife parasites, with disregard for the life of others! I hope the losers who are responsible rot in prison and take it up the ass the rest of their sorry useless time they have remaining on earth!

Burn in Hell!

They won't with the current lieberal justice system, they will be out of jail IF they even serve some time, if they're minors they will receive a slap on the wrist.

 

[Mao Tse Tongue]

This thread is almost as depressing as the actual shootings.

There are many factors that contribute to gun violence. Glorification of violence, hip-hop culture, the decline of the middle class, the general craziness of modern life, blah blah blah.

At the end of the day, people are responsible for their actions, and these clowns have destroyed one life and shattered others. Stupid fucks.

 

[rama putri]

The Black community has been admitting for years there is a problem. Its the government and elected officials who won't listen to the pleas.

WTF? They have? Seems like no other community is asking the government for help. Maybe the black community needs to take responsibilty for raising criminals.

 

[rama putri]

I used to believe Toronto was a relatively safe city; In light of the number of gun related incidents this year, I don't feel that way anymore. What's more disturbing is that the latest shootings occured in an area that I frequent. Very scary stuff.

News reports around the world are echoing this fact. Seems like a small mimority community is sticking it to the rest of Toronto. Why is it always that community?