2-year-old boy dragged into water by alligator near Disney's Grand Floridian

[james t kirk]

It's unfortunate that the kid died and I agree they will probably sue the shit out of Disney because that is the kind of society we have become.

But

That alligator was just being an alligator and the kid became an opportunity for it. Disney didn't stock the lake with alligators, a few got in there because that's what they do. They travel looking for food and despite this being a man made lake, it is a connected water way. This is nature in Florida. Should you be able to sue nature?

The other reality is that today alone in the United States probably 10 little kids are going to die in car accidents. 10 more are going to get stung by a bee and die from an allergic reaction. Are you going to sue the government because they should be out swatting bees to protect your kid and they weren't? This only makes the news because it's a sensational death a la JAWS. The cbc had a gator wildlife official from Mississippi on last night and he stated that this kind of attack has never happened in Mississippi and it is extremely rare. (But I'm sure that all the momsters that Disney markets to are going to panic now figuring that their brood will end up as chum for gators in Orlando and cancel their reservation at Disney. Better to stay in Northern Ontario with the bears.)

The parents should have made themselves aware of their environment and the safety issues that come with it. They didn't and this happened. It's unfortunate they were so unaware of their surroundings

 

[Keebler Elf]

A Disney spokesperson explained that the lake is one of a series of man-made lakes and canals that cover a lot of territory. It's impossible to keep the gators from getting in somewhere. They have a team that goes around collecting them and then relocating & releasing (not euthanizing) them back into the wild.

I've been at that resort and you would haze ZERO idea (unless you were from Florida) that gators could be present in that lake. It's an inland lake that was man-made by Disney and doesn't look like it's full of marine life. The whole thing is surrounded by hotels and the monorail system.

I don't blame the parents for letting their guard down but I'm a wee bit surprised Disney didn't have signs about gators. A no swimming sign doesn't really give you a sense of risk. Put sharks/gators on it and guaranteed parents will think twice. That said, it sounds like the kid was wading on the beach not swimming.

Tragic circumstance that I'm sure Disney will learn from.

This will quickly fade from the news as Disney is really good at keeping things like this quiet. The family will get a financial settlement and everyone will move on.

 

[MissCroft]

1- Alligators get into everything down there. Golf course water hazards, backyard swimming pools etc. They even go onto runways to sun.............................When going to Florida you need to assume that there may be a gator in any body of water you come across. When golfing you are told if your ball goes in a water hazard don't even bother looking for it or retrieving it even if you can see it because you don't know what is waiting there. ....................................This is a tragic lesson to be careful

This.

 

[FunSeeker27]

This is horrible news for not only these parents, but for every parent out there as I'm sure they all feel the loss. I'm not sure what the signs say specifically outisde of 'no swimming' but gators are everywhere in florida and as people keep saying, they get everywhere and into everything - there are a dozen companies throughout Florida that will come and "remove" a gator from your backyard swimming pool because it happens all the time. The Disney lagoons are all man made so the gators just found a new habitat to go to and there are something like 1.3 million gators in Florida as a whole. Are they going to get sued, most likely as the U.S. sues everyone for anything, but these parents needed to be more vigilant in watching their kids. Yes they were on vacation with the guards down, but they had the 4 yr old in the playpen....how did the 2 yr old end up in the water in front of the 'no swimming' sign? At least Trump has the right idea, there isn't a gator out there that can climb a fence!!!!

 

[dirkd101]

This isn't the family's fault at all, this isn't Cletus's outback lodge, this is a billion dollar company which I assume the family paid top dollar to be at. It's their responsibility to ensure the safety of their customers. How many people would have actually thought of a gator attack in this situation, other than someone who lives in Florida, kind of assume the resort has that looked after.

This is the family's fault. Plain and simple. They weren't at 6 Flags, where there are no gators, they were in FLA, where gators are abundant.

I'm sure Disney has their rides inspected to make sure that their patrons are safe and no harm comes to them.

People should think of gator attacks, as they happen from time to time in FLA and they do make the news. Whether Disney World is a billion dollar company is a moot point, their geographic location is in an area where reptiles thrive and gators are at the top of that genus. To not think about gators is the question here. Why didn't the parents think this? Did they just get off the boat and have no idea? Theier stupidity is what killed their kid.

 

[dirkd101]

I don't blame the parents for letting their guard down but I'm a wee bit surprised Disney didn't have signs about gators. A no swimming sign doesn't really give you a sense of risk. Put sharks/gators on it and guaranteed parents will think twice. That said, it sounds like the kid was wading on the beach not swimming.

Tragic circumstance that I'm sure Disney will learn from.

I disagree on the who's to blame here, IMO the parents should shoulder some of the blame.

I do agree with you that there should have been signs warning people of the dangers that could be present and one showing an alligator on it would be prudent, as non language signs are universal in how they connect with all people, coupled with signs in a number of different languages, detailing the dangers that could be present in the waters. This should also be a part of their brochures, so that this reaches people in many different ways. This is where it will cost Disney, as it demonstrates that they didn't fully take the safety of their patrons into account, in all areas of the park, controlled by the corporation. It's one thing to post signs that say no swimming. They should also tell why.

Disney will learn from this and it will cost them at least 6 figures to do so.

 

[Keebler Elf]

Disney will learn from this and it will cost them at least 6 figures to do so.

Cost of doing business.

Disney pays out lots of hush money. That's why you never hear about child molesters at Disney World. You think it's not a mecca for pedophiles? There are some websites that tell the seedy side of Disney, including accidents and fatalities on their sites (or on their rides... including people who got crushed to death on the Haunted Mansion and on a revolving stage in Tomorrowland).

Disney is a huge corporation and on the whole I think they do a good job and are good corporate citizens. There's a seedy side to everything and I don't blame them for trying to deal with issues out of the limelight to protect their image. I wouldn't be surprised if this family gets over six figures as due to the high profile nature of the incident.

 

[Keebler Elf]

People should think of gator attacks...

*Laughing*

Okay. Cuz that's what people think about when they go to see Mickey Mouse in the wonderful world of Disney.

Disney does everything in their power to present an image of a wonderful, majestic, magical place free of the worries of everyday life. The last thing they warn you about is that your kid could be eaten by an alligator while frolicking on the beach.

Blame the parents all you want. The simple fact of the matter is that Disney had a public access beach with waters populated by alligators within easy reach of beachgoers. They posted a sign saying No Swimming but that doesn't mean fuck all if the gator comes up on the beach and snatches your kid. What, the parents are supposed to be on alligator watch? When there's no indications that gators are even present? I suppose they're on shark watch too. And giant eagle watch in case one of them snatches their kid. Christ!

The news also reported the father DID reach the gator and tried to pry the kid free (and got cut up in the process), so the parents weren't completely oblivious.

The reality is this is a tragedy but there is no fail safe way to prevent it. Florida has gators and Disney thought they were taking the necessary precautions (No Swimming signs, gator wranglers, etc.) but as it turns out they were wrong. Disney will have to step up its game (and will) to ensure this doesn't happen again.

In short: The World is a Dangerous Place.

 

[Aardvark154]

They take this very seriously in Australia

Significant difference between these signs and those at Disney World.

 

[JessyCeleste]

Exactly! We walked our kids along the Atlantic shore many times after 9:30pm...I didn't realize that was child abuse until now :frusty:

I really hope someone gets the book thrown at them...that greedy fucking mouse named Mickey. I can just imagine the discussions when those signs were posted around the resort...

Disney Marketing Manager: We've just built a couple of multi-million dollar resorts with fake beaches along an alligator-infested swamp. We're going to be rich!"

Disney Lawyer: "We should put up signs that say 'Danger, Alligators. Do not come within 10 feet of water. We are not liable for any injuries to you or your children'"

Disney Marketing Manager: "Hell no! That'll scare away the tourists. We'll just post "No swimming" signs like they do in Nebraska to warn you about high levels of cow shit in the water. I'm sure nothing bad will happen"

I wasn't saying it was child abuse to have a kid up at 9:20pm. I'm saying gators are hard to see at night, FL is known to have gators and when you were at the beach, gators aren't a problem and I doubt your 2 yr old was in 2 feet of water when No swimming signs were everywhere. I appreciate if you think I am stupid for what I say, but please refer to what I actually said. *Insert same head-banging against wall icon* That was really unfair to twist my words and call me stupid for your own misrepresentation of them. If I said what you are suggesting I did, I agree, that's stupid. Attack me for my actual words please. I'm also pretty sure most people are aware there are gators in FL and they love lagoons. They killed 4 of them looking for the poor boys remains, that they pulled from the same body of water. For the record, I think you are a wonderful parent for enjoying the beach with your kids at 9:20pm and not allowing them to swim in it. 2 feet is deep when you are 2yrs old and gators like to hang in shallow water to hunt, unlike sharks and the danger of the ocean. Anyway, have a great day.

 

[JessyCeleste]

A lot of stupid comments on here, they were on holiday at Disneyland Fer Christ's sake, had their guard down, who cares if the kid was up late, that's what holidays are for. Do you really think an alligator is gonna attack at Disneyland.

Exactly! We walked our kids along the Atlantic shore many times after 9:30pm...I didn't realize that was child abuse until now :frusty:

I really hope someone gets the book thrown at them...that greedy fucking mouse named Mickey. I can just imagine the discussions when those signs were posted around the resort...

Disney Marketing Manager: We've just built a couple of multi-million dollar resorts with fake beaches along an alligator-infested swamp. We're going to be rich!"

Disney Lawyer: "We should put up signs that say 'Danger, Alligators. Do not come within 10 feet of water. We are not liable for any injuries to you or your children'"

Disney Marketing Manager: "Hell no! That'll scare away the tourists. We'll just post "No swimming" signs like they do in Nebraska to warn you about high levels of cow shit in the water. I'm sure nothing bad will happen"

I wasn't saying it was child abuse to have a kid up at 9:20pm. I'm saying gators are hard to see at night, FL is known to have gators and when you were at the beach, gators aren't a problem and I doubt your 2 yr old was in 2 feet of water when No swimming signs were everywhere. I appreciate if you think I am stupid for what I say, but please refer to what I actually said. *Insert same head-banging against wall icon* That was really unfair to twist my words and call me stupid for your own misrepresentation of them. If I said what you are suggesting I did, I agree, that's stupid. Attack me for my actual words please. I'm also pretty sure most people are aware there are gators in FL and they love lagoons. They killed 4 of them looking for the poor boys remains, that they pulled from the same body of water. For the record, I think you are a wonderful parent for enjoying the beach with your kids at 9:20pm and not allowing them to swim in it. 2 feet is deep when you are 2yrs old and gators like to hang in shallow water to hunt, unlike sharks and the danger of the ocean. Before you try to turn it on me and say you didn't call me stupid and I should practice what I preach, you said 'exactly' to the person who did. I know neither of you did a quote-post but your comments touched on mine even though they were totally misrepresented. I'm not going to get into an argument though, I'm here to have fun. Not argue. Anyway, I hope you all have a great day, that this boy rests in peace. Along with the 5 alligators who also lost their lives in this horrible event..

 

[LeeHelm]

Cost of doing business.

Disney pays out lots of hush money. That's why you never hear about child molesters at Disney World. You think it's not a mecca for pedophiles? There are some websites that tell the seedy side of Disney, including accidents and fatalities on their sites (or on their rides... including people who got crushed to death on the Haunted Mansion and on a revolving stage in Tomorrowland).

Disney is a huge corporation and on the whole I think they do a good job and are good corporate citizens. There's a seedy side to everything and I don't blame them for trying to deal with issues out of the limelight to protect their image. I wouldn't be surprised if this family gets over six figures as due to the high profile nature of the incident.

Not just Disney. Lots of vacation destinations do this. I spent a lot of time in the British Virgin Islands so I got to know some of the locals pretty well. At The Baths, a new dingy tie up was placed well off shore forcing you to wade into shore. In the past you could just take the dingy to shore.

I knew of the dangers of bringing dingys to shore. First swimmers in the water. So if there were swimmers I would shut the engine down and row in. Second you can get crushed by the dingy dragging it to shore if a big wave comes in. I always had my crew lean into the dingy so if they fell they would fall away from the boat. I figured everyone knew this.

I inquired with my contacts on the new offshore tie up at the baths. I can't remember the figures but I think it was something like one death a day at that beach. Whatever the death toll, I was shocked.

In Disney's defense, they have an excellent protocol when dealing with pedophiles. Of course the best defense is being vigilant.

 

[fuji]

This is the family's fault. Plain and simple. They weren't at 6 Flags, where there are no gators, they were in FLA, where gators are abundant.

How many people know that? I'm not from Florida, and before this story if you had asked me I would have guessed that gators were rare in populated areas, like a seeing a deer in downtown Toronto. Happens. But rare. I'd have thought if you wanted to see a gator you would have to go way out into the swamp to a nature preserve far from civilization.

From this story I learned that's totally wrong, but it would never even have occurred to me to worry about gators at a family hotel in an urbanized area at Disneyland.

I suspect most people not from Florida or neighboring states have equally little idea that gators are crawling all through Florida's suburban areas.

So, really, I think it's a travesty that there weren't numerous large and obvious signs warning of the extreme danger posed by gators.

 

[jackson11]

How many people know that? I'm not from Florida, and before this story if you had asked me I would have guessed that gators were rare in populated areas, like a seeing a deer in downtown Toronto. Happens. But rare. I'd have thought if you wanted to see a gator you would have to go way out into the swamp to a nature preserve far from civilization.

From this story I learned that's totally wrong, but it would never even have occurred to me to worry about gators at a family hotel in an urbanized area at Disneyland.

I suspect most people not from Florida or neighboring states have equally little idea that gators are crawling all through Florida's suburban areas.

So, really, I think it's a travesty that there weren't numerous large and obvious signs warning of the extreme danger posed by gators.

Everywhere you go in Florida there are warning signs. As you drive down the highway there are signs up and down the road ways saying don't walk along the brush on the side of the road because of gators and snakes.
Around water signs are increased. And people warn you not to go near water. And if that is not enough in many cases you can actually see the gators swimming in the water, sunning on rocks or coming in and out of the water.
I remember my visits to Disneyland and I would agree with you if the attack took place somewhere in the park (in ride line, walking the "streets", food courts etc). It is easy to become "distracted" or caught up in the entertainment of it all. However it is pretty common sense to pretty much everyone going to Florida that you never play around unknown water anywhere especially at night when gators feed. And if there is no common sense than most people use their eyes and see them. I can't image what the f#$ck was going through the parents minds letting them play on a gator infested beach at night around warning signs.

 

[LeeHelm]

Everywhere you go in Florida there are warning signs. As you drive down the highway there are signs up and down the road ways saying don't walk along the brush on the side of the road because of gators and snakes.
Around water signs are increased. And people warn you not to go near water. And if that is not enough in many cases you can actually see the gators swimming in the water, sunning on rocks or coming in and out of the water.
I remember my visits to Disneyland and I would agree with you if the attack took place somewhere in the park (in ride line, walking the "streets", food courts etc). It is easy to become "distracted" or caught up in the entertainment of it all. However it is pretty common sense to pretty much everyone going to Florida that you never play around unknown water anywhere especially at night when gators feed. And if there is no common sense than most people use their eyes and see them. I can't image what the f#$ck was going through the parents minds letting them play on a gator infested beach at night around warning signs.

To be fair, lots of people arrive by shuttle and never leave the property. There really is no need. That is what I did. I don't remember seeing gator signs because I was not driving. Not sure if there are any between the property and airport.

I would never go wading there because the water there just seemed kind of disgusting to me. But some 2 year old kid is not going to worry about that and dad wants to keep him happy.

 

[JessyCeleste]

Wow, someone pissed in your cornflakes this morning. I never said you or anyone else was stupid--feel free to provide a link. I didn't even quote your post. Since you want to take me on - so be it.

1) It was ONE foot of water and the father was wading through it with him:

http://www.wesh.com/news/so-child-d...r-disneys-grand-floridian-resort-spa/40058064

2) As Aardie already posted, others like the Australians post meaningful signs that reflect the real hazards. Disney obviously cared more about the cash than safety

3) Yes MOST people know about the hazards in Florida lagoons, but MOST isn't good enough when it comes to human lives. Does it make sense to you to construct a beach along with an environment that alligators will flourish in? Does it make sense to post intentionally benign warning signs where the hazards are real?

In my nearly three decades of parenting I know I screwed up a "few" times. These parents didn't do anything that most of us haven't done at one time or another. Check in with me in a decade and let me know just how perfect a mother you are Jessy.

Zoobott,
I now see your personal letter in my inbox wasn't a nice gesture but sarcastic, saying that I should advertise only and just shut up on the board? II thought you were being nice and responding to another post I made expressing confusion about directory vs advertising, hence my friendly reply. That's ok. You're entitled to your opinion, and as I said, I'm not here to argue, I'm here to have fun. So I'm going to leave this thread anyway. The article I read said it was 2 feet of water. I wasn't there so I'm not going to argue if its one or two feet. LOL Even if I was there, I don't like arguments or negative things, so I would back away anyway. But I do think either is too much in any lagoon in FL at any age. For me this is common sense, if you have a different opinion, ok. There is no reason to turn nasty. I wasn't being cruel or insulting toward you. Simply asking you to attack my actual words. I already said why I think its my post you were referring to and that's because you made direct ref to what I said and I didn't see those points in other posts. and lol I don't want to 'take you on' . I'm really not the 'lets have a good fight' type. I avoid stuff like this like the plague, hence my backing out after I explain myself. I do agree with you that there is a massive difference between the nasty alligator signs and no swimming signs. However, both do mean stay out of the water and alligators in FL waters is a fact everyone knows of. I never once mentioned Disney or denied their many MANY faults. And yes, they should have the alligator signs, not just for parents but to reach the kids who may wonder off and be naughty. I agree with you on this and never said otherwise. My cornflakes were fine. I didn't turn nasty on you, and wouldn't do that. It wasn't a beach from what I read, I could be wrong. It was a lagoon and its hard to keep gators out because they can leave water. Again, you bring up Disney, sweety I never once defended them. I never said the signs shouldn't be better. Why do you spew venom on me? To me this wasn't just one mistake. I know no one is a perfect parent and I never suggested I would be. But this was a bad decision not in just one way but in many. In all the ways I listed. Listing these things in no way exonerates Disney, nor does it imply this is the only reasons this happened. It sounds like you are blaming me for every point you didn't like in this thread. Again, please attack me for what I say, not for things I didn't say. That's all I asked and I don't feel my request warranted your words. As for providing a link. Sweety, again please READ what I say. I actually addressed that you would likely say this and said 'you said, 'exactly' to someone who did. It was directed at both of you. So I touched on points you both made. I already provided the quote and the one you did and don't need to do it again in the spirit of argument. I'm gonna back away now because I think its awful that this poor kids death is bringing on such negativity. Plus, I don't relish arguing and in no way wanted to 'take you on' especially as I AGREE with pretty much all your points lol. As I said, I didn't say most of what you're attacking me for so.. I also said nothing negative other than asking for you and the other person to only attack me for what I actually said. Anyway, This is so silly. Take care of yourself.

Jessy

Oh sorry it showed up like three times in a row. I don't know why that happened. Odd.

 

[colt]

If you are going to say that out of state visitors should have been aware of the danger than it only stand to reason that Disney, a company that has operated in the area for years and actually built the facility, should have been that much more aware of the danger. A "No swimming" sign can mean anything - don't swim because there are no lifeguards; don't swim because you will damage a sensitive ecosystem; don't swim because the water is polluted. A sign that says there is a danger of alligator attacks is far less ambiguous.

 

[Aardvark154]

Related to what Oagre posted (page 2), it has become apparent that Disney was on notice about the alligators in the 'Seven Seas Lagoon.' Numerous people had told various Disney employees including managers about the alligators.

 

[fuji]

Everywhere you go in Florida there are warning signs.

That's demonstrably untrue. There were no such signs around the man-made lake at Disney. If such signs are common elsewhere that raises an even bigger question who Disney decided to break with tradition and omit the warnings.

And if your only experience of Florida was that you flew in, got to Disney, and checked into your hotel, where and how would you have seen these signs in other places you didn't go to?

 

[mandrill]

Related to what Oagre posted (page 2), it has become apparent that Disney was on notice about the alligators in the 'Seven Seas Lagoon.' Numerous people had told various Disney employees including managers about the alligators.

Featured on CNN tonight. Disney is going down big on this!

Guy I saw said that gators had chased his toddler and the manager poo-pooed it and said the gators were "harmless" - no doubt as she had been told to do by higher-ups who didn't want to scare off the customer base.