Trump/Zelensky deal turns into Jerry Springer episode
- Thread starter nottyboi
- Start date
So Trump won't work for peace at all unless he gets his beak wet is what you are saying?
The security guarantee is "Trump is making money, and he won't let someone fuck with that"?
That's your argument?
Because "That will probably motivate Russia to not risk getting wiped off the planet" is a security guarantee.
Which I think Trump absolutely insisted it was bad to ask for.
Private meeting:
Trump: We'll commit to financially backing the fight for "freedom" and "rights" of Ukraine as long as you send your son to fight on the front lines with the rest of the UK ground troops.
Starmer: I can't do that. He could get killed!
Trump: Exactly right. No deal. Come back when you have skin in the game.
because like anything in life, there are no guarantees...what US promised is to bring both russia and ukraine to CONSIDER ending the war... It's costing everyone.... lives and $$$. US finance 70% of NATO... $175B later (from Biden)...the war didn't stop. not even a Trillion $$$ will defeat the Russians...maybe that's the cost plus a few millions of lives to get the war to end... Trump is merely suggesting a short cut... have a partnership with Ukraine (minerals deal) advocate peace with Russia...will Putin consider it? Nobody knows on that side... You've been on terb long enough to know, even a well reviewed SP is not a guaranteed good time...
Valcazar, you've been rather coy on this thread.
I don't remember you stating you support NATO membership or security guarantees.
Perhaps I missed it.
LOL, "consider"?
So Trump is saying "there should be negotiations", as if no one had thought of that or done that for three years?
This "win" for Trump is literally "sign this deal and then maybe there should be talks some time"?
"I don't know if Putin will go for it, who can say?"
Holy shit, even the defence of this thing gets more and more pathetic.
Wow.
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So you would rather treat the US as a bottomless purse? Of course Trump wants something in return... You really think Trump will go on his first State of the Nation and tell the Americans..." I gave more of your tax money to Ukraine"
LoL
If there was someone who done any negotiations for the last 3 years...they suck at it...LoL
I support security guarantees because there is basically no lasting peace that isn't "Russia now controls Ukraine" without one.
That doesn't have to be NATO membership, of course, and never has had to be.
I didn't know asking for a minerals deal is corruption...
The history is certainly complicated. There was more support for Russia in the Crimea than the rest of the Ukraine. I believe a great majority of Crimeans speak Russian. A lot of Crimeans also depended on Russian tourism before the war.
You can throw out the 2014 referendum where 97% of Crimeans voted for integration into the Russian Federation. That was a farce.
In 2022-early 2023 before the Ukrainian 2023 counteroffensive stalled, there was a lot of social media support and ambition for retaking Crimea.
As a side note, the military holding ground rather than attacking has a big advantage. This is just a fact of warfare. I'm not sure the Ukrainians can force the Russians to leave Eastern Ukraine.
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For it to have teeth, it might have to look like quasi-NATO membership.
I'm just hoping the Russians can be contained for a few years and we get closer to Putin's death by either natural or unnatural causes.
To summarize, he can't guarantee anything.
He just wants the minerals.
Unfortunately, Zelensky isn't the fool Trump is.
Does anyone know what this mineral deals would actually look like?
Somebody's going to be mining. I was thinking we don't want the Chinese to come into Ukraine with their money. (Well, most of us here don't want that.)
which leader do you think can guarantee it? EU? LoL they are wanting to fund Ukraine into keeping the conflict... Zelensky a fool? nah..he is smart... he knows once peace is achieved, Election will happen....
Are you ready to enlist once Trudeau sends troops to Ukraine?
Ukrainian civilians are not...
You know damn well they can guarantee military support like military presence, military bases, weapons etc.because like anything in life, there are no guarantees...what US promised is to bring both russia and ukraine to CONSIDER ending the war... It's costing everyone.... lives and $$$. US finance 70% of NATO... $175B later (from Biden)...the war didn't stop. not even a Trillion $$$ will defeat the Russians...maybe that's the cost plus a few millions of lives to get the war to end... Trump is merely suggesting a short cut... have a partnership with Ukraine (minerals deal) advocate peace with Russia...will Putin consider it? Nobody knows on that side... You've been on terb long enough to know, even a well reviewed SP is not a guaranteed good time...
Trump's mob-style negotiations just don't work. "Pay me money or something bad will happen to you". WTF is this?
Security guarantee = military consequences for Russia.
More clearly, if Russia were to attack Ukraine in the future, they would have to fight Ukraine and the west.
That is what Zelensky is asking for.
It is reasonable.
Guarantee here is not referring to promises or assurances by Trump or any other leader.
Without it the only other option is for Ukraine to fight it out.
Unless UKRAINE DECIDES to give up territory and end the war.
But it should be Ukraine's decision.
Not shoved down its throat by Trump or anyone else. Much less frame this as a protection racket.
guaranteeing military support is not towards peace...it's prolonging war. US is bleeding money. Trump is wanting better deal for US for Americans. US is already funding the most in NATO...and no, it's not "Pay me money or something bad will happen to you" that's an ignorant take...
So you're saying Russia didn't get "military consequences" under Biden? they were fighting since 2022...It's quite obvious another $200B will not end this war...you really expect Trump to look every American in the eye and say..."we're going to Ukraine and we'll send our troops"? LOLOLOLOL.
