Trump/Zelensky deal turns into Jerry Springer episode

oil&gas

Well-known member
Apr 16, 2002
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Ghawar
Until you realize that the entirety of European Russia where the majority of the Russian population lives is a target and it is not such a good bargain.
Who gives a fuck about Siberia?
You have any idea what the metro population of London, Paris and Toronto
are compared with the total population of the UK, France and Canada?
 

WyattEarp

Well-known member
May 17, 2017
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So what's your point, Earp?

That Chamberlain shouldn't have given in to Hitler at Munich, but it would have been okay to surrender to him after the first million British, Russians and French had been killed in 1941?

I'm confused.


I just want to see you make a point or two which is worth reading and responding to. I'm seeing a lot of shoring up to defend the US GOP position - a position not shared by any other Western government for very powerful and logical reasons. If Trump's position made any sense at all, most of Europe would be following suit. They're not.
I have strongly disagreed with Munich 1938 comparisons. The Ukraine defended their government and their sovereignty. Russia has paid a terrible price. Now's the time for a ceasefire.
You want facts. A ceasefire was not the negotiation at Munich in 1938.

Here is an objective exercise on what constitutes "appeasement" for everyone. We all know there are three possible outcomes. The Russians pack up and leave the Ukraine one way or another. Ukraine collapses. Or lastly, a negotiated ceasefire leaves Russia with Ukrainian territory. If this war is fought for another two-three years and the stalemate continues, would negotiating a ceasefire still be considered "appeasement" then?

(There's no right answer.)
 

preme89

New member
Feb 26, 2022
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Just an observation, but doesn't the Russian/Ukrainian conflict bear the same hallmarks or contours of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict?

If so, isn't the American position on both conflicts irreconcilable?
 
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oil&gas

Well-known member
Apr 16, 2002
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Ghawar
If so, isn't the American position on both conflicts irreconcilable?
Zelensky's Ukraine compared with Israel is dispensable to the U.S.
I think Ukraine may turn out to be even more dispensable than South
Vietnam. Richard Nixon at least doggedly adhered to a timetable of
gradual and orderly withdrawal of U.S.'s involment in the conflict
so as to allow South Vietnam to strengthen defence on its own.

Ukraine will be abandoned by the U.S. like South Vietnam. And I doubt
a win of the Democratic party in the 2028 presidential election
will alter fundamentally America's policy towards Ukraine. Even under
Biden the war was intended to benefit the U.S. at the expense of
Europe. Trump's objective is not about ending the war itself. It is
more about ending the war on the battlefield and leave Ukraine to
Europe so as to allow the U.S. to turn to China and to reap more profits
from a cold war between Russia and Europe.
 
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SchlongConery

License to Shill
Jan 28, 2013
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Zelensky's Ukraine compared with Israel is dispensable to the U.S.
I think Ukraine may turn out to be even more dispensable than South
Vietnam. Richard Nixon at least doggedly adhered to a timetable of
gradual and orderly withdrawal of U.S.'s involment in the conflict
so as to allow South Vietnam to strengthen defence on its own.

Ukraine will be abandoned by the U.S. like South Vietnam. And I doubt
a win of the Democratic party in the 2028 presidential election
will alter fundamentally America's policy towards Ukraine. Even under
Biden the war was intended to benefit the U.S. at the expense of
Europe. Trump's objective is not about ending the war itself. It is
more about ending the war on the battlefield and leave Ukraine to
Europe so as to allow the U.S. to turn to China and to reap more profits
from a cold war between Russia and Europe.

I often agree with about 2/3rds or maybe even 89% of the content of your posts.

But you are giving Donnie wayyyyyyy too much credit. His negotiating style is predictable and single transactional thought put into it. He has no such complex thoughts in his head.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Schlong, it wasn't even close to a scientific poll. It was open voting on a liberal commentator's website.
It's kind of bizarre to see it on CNN, but I guess this guy has his own weekend show.

I'm more interested in legitimate polling that tells us if the Oval Office meeting moved the needle on support for the war one way or another. My guess it won't change public sentiment in the U.S.
You miss the point, the changes from this meeting are global and resulting in massive shifts in alliances.
The US continues to bumble along thinking isolationism is the ticket.
 

nottyboi

Well-known member
May 14, 2008
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Sheer numbers don't always work. I'm not sure that Canada and Mexico offer enough complementary trade to really have a very successful trade agreement. Both Canada and Mexico also have large surpluses with the U.S.

I forget. Are you the guy who wants Canada to have 70 million people?
100m about 2050 or 2060
 

DesRicardo

aka Dick Dastardly
Dec 2, 2022
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Just an observation, but doesn't the Russian/Ukrainian conflict bear the same hallmarks or contours of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict?

If so, isn't the American position on both conflicts irreconcilable?
Not really, Hamas kidnapped people. Putin knows his time is running out on unifying the soviet union.

The problem is this is not America's position, it's Trump's position.

For some crazy reason some think a crooked real estate developer is an expert on Russian relations.
 

SchlongConery

License to Shill
Jan 28, 2013
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He just wants to be able to say that he ended the war and "saved" Ukraine.
And that he secured the biggest and most beautiful "raw earth" mineral deal that the world has ever seen.
Just bonus narcissist points.

There is no doubt left, that based on observing his actions and words that he was compromised by Russia a long time ago. Is he the ultimate sleeper? 🤷‍♂️
 

nottyboi

Well-known member
May 14, 2008
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You miss the point, the changes from this meeting are global and resulting in massive shifts in alliances.
The US continues to bumble along thinking isolationism is the ticket.
I don't think its isolationism. Its reshoring and I think its less confrontation. But we shall see.
 
Ashley Madison
Toronto Escorts