Trump Targets Annual 8% Defense Budget Cuts Through 2030

[Dutch Oven]

I did not say discontinue trade.
I said we should not put our eggs in one basket.
Yes that means diversifying trade with other nations.
I also do not agree that these other nations aren't better markets.
Markets are just markets and you need to engage in trade diplomacy to secure arrangements that work for you.
India, China etc are good, experienced nations with huge populations and economies that we already trade with.
So all we have to do is expand trade relations with them and we are perfectly capable of doing so.

Yes, you are talking about discontinuing SOME US trade in favour of other markets. If you were only talking about ADDITIONAL trade: a) why do you suppose Canadian companies have been declining this additional business thus far, and b) what has that got to do with trade negotiations with the US?

As to your opinion about "better markets", since you have failed to counter any of the points I identified which makes them worse markets, I'll just take your opinion as wishful thinking. I don't think you know much about the realities of doing business in China.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

Canada needs to keep its cool and engage better negotiators.

There is no negotiation with Nazis.
We have to secure alternatives.

 

[DesRicardo]

Could you restate your second sentence?

Doesn't seem like this is mutual for us.

 

[richaceg]

I did not say discontinue trade.
I said we should not put our eggs in one basket.
Yes that means diversifying trade with other nations.
I also do not agree that these other nations aren't better markets.
Markets are just markets and you need to engage in trade diplomacy to secure arrangements that work for you.
India, China etc are good, experienced nations with huge populations and economies that we already trade with.
So all we have to do is expand trade relations with them and we are perfectly capable of doing so.

Since when did "we" put our eggs in one basket? Canada has been dealing with India, China, Korea, Japan for the longest time aside from US...we just got better deals with the US and they are also our biggest market...before actually throwing up in arms about the tariffs, you need to see the numbers...US will still be our biggest market and they are still our biggest suppliers...it will still be cheaper to get raw materials from US,

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

Yes, you are talking about discontinuing SOME US trade in favour of other markets. If you were only talking about ADDITIONAL trade: a) why do you suppose Canadian companies have been declining this additional business thus far, and b) what has that got to do with trade negotiations with the US?

As to your opinion about "better markets", since you have failed to counter any of the points I identified which makes them worse markets, I'll just take your opinion as wishful thinking. I don't think you know much about the realities of doing business in China.

Yes and the US seems to favour discontinuing it too.
Trump has already said the US does not need anything from Canada.
If he imposes tariffs our exporters may not be competitive in the US, so it is time to look for other markets to export our products to.
The advantages you listed in terms of organized border, proximity etc aren't big enough for us to put all our eggs in one basket.
I dont think you know much about doing business in China either, considering every other country trades with them.
Any challenges faced there aren't unique to Canada and those they are most definitely able to be handled.
You have pigeon holed yourself and inflated constraints to suit your narrative most likely for ideological reasons.
Hence your call for "negotiations".
I have read your comments before and what you want is for Canada to acquiesce to the demands of Trump.
I cannot take your comments to come from a place of neutrality or objectivity for that reason.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

Since when did "we" put our eggs in one basket? Canada has been dealing with India, China, Korea, Japan for the longest time aside from US..

76% of our exports are to the US.
That is akin to putting all your eggs in one basket.
Yes we already trade with those other nations.
I am saying we need to expand trade with them.
So it is no longer 76% but lower.

 

[Dutch Oven]

Just this past week I read articles by Stephen Harper, Michael Sabia, and a long-time leading columnist here in Quebec. The 3 of them said the same thing. You cannot negotiate nonsense.

Canada needs to wait it out and develop plans to sell our oil, steel, aluminum, and wood to other countries.

Canada has more resources than any country in the world. It will be tough short term but fine long term. The motto is to let the motherfucker Trump destroy his country, wait it out....

I beg to differ. In negotiations, you don't get to dictate the style or tactics of who you are negotiating with. If you have any skill at negotiation, you can adapt your own strategy to meet your objectives, or achieve the best outcome you can, regardless of what the other side is doing. I didn't read the articles you did, and I might interpret them differently than you did, but if they really had the gist of what you say - discontinue negotiations if the other side is saying something that doesn't make sense - I think those opinions are categorically wrong, and fly in the face of the majority of real world negotiations. Many negotiations stall because the parties get to a point where there is fundamental disagreement, but there are ways through such problems.

And what people say in the press does not necessary reflect their true understanding on how to move forward in negotiations. After all, you don't want to give away your strategy or true mandate.

 

[Dutch Oven]

76% of our exports are to the US.
That is akin to putting all your eggs in one basket.
Yes we already trade with those other nations.
I am saying we need to expand trade with them.
So it is no longer 76% but lower.

In business, you shift your marketing when other markets become more profitable. You always saturate your best markets. Seeding other markets for a change in market conditions is what you do with additional sales, assuming you have the capacity to supply the developing market.

 

[Dutch Oven]

I have read your comments before and what you want is for Canada to acquiesce to the demands of Trump.
I cannot take your comments to come from a place of neutrality or objectivity for that reason.

This is evidence that your emotions have got the better of you. I have never said any such thing.

Instead of looking at what I say from the perspective of "where is it coming from", you should be looking at from the perspective of "has he said anything that isn't true". It's the latter point that matters, if you are open to reconsidering your own perspective. If you can't tell that I know what I'm talking about with respect to negotiations, I'm afraid that might be a reflection of your unfamiliarity with the process.

As to what I have said about doing business in China, nothing in my comments are any secret in the business community, and there is plenty of public discussion about it online. There have even been a number of investigative pieces about it in both print and on television.

 

[Butler1000]

You don't assess that until AFTER the negotiations. We're not there.

He isn't really negotiating in good faith. Just tweeting bullshit. So no, I don't take it seriously.

If the tariffs go on, I say surcharge all oil. It's all Trump country where it's transported.

 

[Dutch Oven]

Doesn't seem like this is mutual for us.

As I've said in other threads, people need to adjust their focus from "I hate what this guy is saying" to "what can we get out of these negotiations?". I don't like repeating myself in different threads, but my opinion is that there is an opportunity here for Canada. We are part of a tri-lateral agreement and we are probably benefitting the least from it amongst the three participants. Mexico is benefitting the most. Trumps main political objective, being the populist that he is, is to repatriate manufacturing jobs to the US, jobs that primarily migrated to Mexico and China - not to Canada. Further, US citizens and entities have significant holdings in Canadian exporters. Not so in Mexico and China. My view would be to offer to restructure the deal around tying free trade to free foreign investment. In that scenario, Canada would gain a trade advantage - AGAINST MEXICO - to enter the US market. I actually think that Trump is looking for Canada to ally with him in this sort of reform, and would protect Canadian interests if we were to do so.

In tri-lateral negotiations, the first 2 legged deal is always forced on the third party (just as the last deal was forced on Canada because we had dithering idiots like Freeland at the helm). I say, make a two legged deal with the US that disadvantages Mexico, and continue our close relationship with the US.

 

[Dutch Oven]

He isn't really negotiating in good faith. Just tweeting bullshit. So no, I don't take it seriously.

If the tariffs go on, I say surcharge all oil. It's all Trump country where it's transported.

The only kind of negotiating that isn't in good faith is when a party doesn't want to reach any deal. Do you think Trump, Mr. Dealmaker himself, doesn't want this to end in a deal? It would be SEVERELY off-brand for him!

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

This is evidence that your emotions have got the better of you. I have never said any such thing.

Instead of looking at what I say from the perspective of "where is it coming from", you should be looking at from the perspective of "has he said anything that isn't true".

That is my comment about you, so don't turn it around on me.
As I mentioned I have read your comment before on this matter, and you have repeatedly called Trump's blathering "reasonable" when he is threatening Canada.
You have let your emotions get the better of you and you speak as an ideologue under a smokescreen of "market dynamics and trade".
I also addressed your perspective.
What you said about China, per your own admission is out there in the public space for all to find.
So it is clearly not an unknown and it is clearly something we already are aware of.
We already trade with them so am sure our businessmen know what to do there.
That is all the more reason to diversify and not rely solely on the US.

 

[Butler1000]

The only kind of negotiating that isn't in good faith is when a party doesn't want to reach any deal. Do you think Trump, Mr. Dealmaker himself, doesn't want this to end in a deal? It would be SEVERELY off-brand for him!

He is also known for breaking deals, refusing to pay up, changing mid stream, and otherwise not being a good faith bargainer.

It's fine to do that as a private businessman, you get a personal reputation for it.

He is now doing it as a nation leader. It's not just about "this" deal. It's now about having threatened sovereignty, insulted the office of the PM(not just the PM, but the OFFICE) and made it quite personal. As well as threatening the livelihood of millions.

He actually either doesn't get that or doesn't care. Fine, but don't expect us to lie down. I say use the oil, make it clear. Then do it. And let them react.

 

[jalimon]

I beg to differ. In negotiations, you don't get to dictate the style or tactics of who you are negotiating with. If you have any skill at negotiation, you can adapt your own strategy to meet your objectives, or achieve the best outcome you can, regardless of what the other side is doing. I didn't read the articles you did, and I might interpret them differently than you did, but if they really had the gist of what you say - discontinue negotiations if the other side is saying something that doesn't make sense - I think those opinions are categorically wrong, and fly in the face of the majority of real world negotiations. Many negotiations stall because the parties get to a point where there is fundamental disagreement, but there are ways through such problems.

And what people say in the press does not necessary reflect their true understanding on how to move forward in negotiations. After all, you don't want to give away your strategy or true mandate.

Harper basically said Canada should not take any lead at the moment. We need to wait until Trump's intentions are clear, which may never happen as Trump could very well simply retract all his tariff policy on a whim versus Canada.

Secondly, he said there is no majority public opinion against Canada in the US. Canada is still viewed positively as an ally. The opposite makes zero sense (except from some zealots maga wingnut).

And currently, the situation is totally lose-lose so Canada should not make any concessions. Not until having put in writing what we could obtain in return for concessions.

No wonder I vote twice for the guy. He was quite intelligent.

 

[DesRicardo]

As I've said in other threads, people need to adjust their focus from "I hate what this guy is saying" to "what can we get out of these negotiations?". I don't like repeating myself in different threads, but my opinion is that there is an opportunity here for Canada. We are part of a tri-lateral agreement and we are probably benefitting the least from it amongst the three participants. Mexico is benefitting the most. Trumps main political objective, being the populist that he is, is to repatriate manufacturing jobs to the US, jobs that primarily migrated to Mexico and China - not to Canada. Further, US citizens and entities have significant holdings in Canadian exporters. Not so in Mexico and China. My view would be to offer to restructure the deal around tying free trade to free foreign investment. In that scenario, Canada would gain a trade advantage - AGAINST MEXICO - to enter the US market. I actually think that Trump is looking for Canada to ally with him in this sort of reform, and would protect Canadian interests if we were to do so.

In tri-lateral negotiations, the first 2 legged deal is always forced on the third party (just as the last deal was forced on Canada because we had dithering idiots like Freeland at the helm). I say, make a two legged deal with the US that disadvantages Mexico, and continue our close relationship with the US.

You're letting Trumpism blind and brainwashed you.

This guy's whole position is we are ripping off America. There is no "what can we get out of these negotiations?". If Trump wants car production back in America, what exactly do you negotiate? If he want's a 25% tariff on both sides of the border, what exactly do you negotiate? We already have foreign investment, I'd argue we have too much American business here.

To add, He lies about drugs and illegals pour from the north, Then test the waters on trying to add Canada as the 51st State, Then publicly tells Russia we are vulnerable for attack in the Arctic. This is a very odd way of asking Canada to ally with him. And last time I checked, we already allies.

Wake up. He's trying to extort everyone.

And I called it a month ago. All that complaining about security at the border was all a excuse to extort money from Canada. This is not a negotiation.

 

[Frankfooter]

I'm surprised this hasn't gotten more comments.

Aren't they already walking it back, declaring that its not cuts and other departments would get that money?

 

[JohnLarue]

This will cause a kerfuffel. America loves its war machine. What does it mean for the POS Nation handouts?

White House eyes annual 8% cut to defense budget through 2030

The move could reduce defense spending projections by hundreds of billions of dollars over the next five years.

www.militarytimes.com

waste is waste
no doubt there is wasteful military spending
cut out the waste as well

the Lonnie's will be between a rock and a hard place not knowing what to say

the miliary contractors ?
they might make up the short fall via increased NATO spending

 

[JohnLarue]

What about running his mouth before/during negotiations? Doesn't seem like this is mutual for us.

Justin ran his mouth for 4 years never dreaming Trump might return
"it was not suppose to be this way"

He needs to fade away and shut up until the RCMP need to talk to him about missing tax dollars or foreign interference or SNC or......

 

[Valcazar]

You're letting Trumpism blind and brainwashed you.

That implies this isn't just the position and beliefs he has had all along.

This guy's whole position is we are ripping off America. There is no "what can we get out of these negotiations?". If Trump wants car production back in America, what exactly do you negotiate? If he want's a 25% tariff on both sides of the border, what exactly do you negotiate? We already have foreign investment, I'd argue we have too much American business here.

To add, He lies about drugs and illegals pour from the north, Then test the waters on trying to add Canada as the 51st State, Then publicly tells Russia we are vulnerable for attack in the Arctic. This is a very odd way of asking Canada to ally with him. And last time I checked, we already allies.

Wake up. He's trying to extort everyone.

And I called it a month ago. All that complaining about security at the border was all a excuse to extort money from Canada. This is not a negotiation.

It is a negotiation.
Extortion and lies and deception are negotiations.
He wants stuff, and is trying to get it.
It's just very bad faith negotiations.