Trump Targets Annual 8% Defense Budget Cuts Through 2030

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

The US is not trying to break our alliance. They are trying to get us to pull our weight on NATO spending and border security.

There are many trading partners that are better than the US.
EU, China, India and so on.
Proximity isn't the only concern.
Many countries of the world trade across continents and Canada isn't an exception.
I do agree that we need to pull our own weight with the military. Chiefly to counter to the American threat.
I suspect you are one of those wannabe MAGA Canadians and loyal quislings engaging in mental gymnastics.

 

[Dutch Oven]

There are many trading partners that are better than the US.
EU, China, India and so on.
Proximity isn't the only concern.
Many countries of the world trade across continents and Canada isn't an exception.
I do agree that we need to pull our own weight with the military. Chiefly to counter to the American threat.
I suspect you are one of those wannabe MAGA Canadians and loyal quislings engaging in mental gymnastics.

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The fact that you put China and India on your list means I can't take you seriously. NO businessman would ever claim that trading with China and India is in any way better than trading with the US, for all the reasons I've mentioned, and more.

We might have had a discussion around EU countries, but that too is an oversimplification because it depends on which country you are dealing with and what you are selling.

 

[Valcazar]

They will.
There is China, India, Russia and EU.
None as powerful as the US but if they do start to fill in the space, they'd have to share.
Division of power is better than concentration of power. IMO.

I don't think that's as clear cut as you might think.
There's lots of reasons to suspect that a multi-polar world isn't necessarily better.
I don't think that you can just assert it as a truism without caveats.

 

[Butler1000]

You seem intelligent, so I'm forced to conclude that you're not being honest in your assessment. The US is not trying to break our alliance. They are trying to get us to pull our weight on NATO spending and border security. Their positions on those issues are, in a word, reasonable. Why shouldn't we pull our weight?

You can yearn for a better relationship where we don't have to pull our own weight, but frankly the US, for all her imperfections, is the best looking girl at the dance.

Your admiration for diversification is superficial. Not all trading relationships are equal. You can't equate a trading partner in close transport proximity, over a well organized border, with relatively uncorrupt bureaucrats, police, and legal system compared to what most of world offers. Talk to business people who deal with China and hear about local corruption, payment difficulties, forced partnerships, and a legal system that is simply a sham in the event of disputes. These aspects simply aren't part of trade with the US.

Show me a better trading partner than the US and then we'll have something to talk about.

p.s. The most recent, and best, opportunity to open a significant new market happened when the Nord Stream 2 pipeline was taken off line. However, our Liberal government couldn't divorce themselves from Quebec politics to get LNG pipelines and terminals built to the Atlantic for sea transport to Europe. If we couldn't seize such an easy opportunity, how do you suppose we're going to develop the new trading relationships that you're dreaming of?

p.p.s. If we really want to end this talk of annexing Canada, all we need to do is tell Trump a lot more about Quebec!

Do you realize that the way he is going about this is designed to not get the results you want?

The whole 51st schtick he is pulling has now become a serious pride issue up here. It's an escalation that can and will result in us pulling further away, and also becoming more transactional.

Seriously, when it comes to Canadians don't mistake our patience for passiveness.

 

[Butler1000]

The fact that you put China and India on your list means I can't take you seriously. NO businessman would ever claim that trading with China and India is in any way better than trading with the US, for all the reasons I've mentioned, and more.

We might have had a discussion around EU countries, but that too is an oversimplification because it depends on which country you are dealing with and what you are selling.

It's better until it isn't. That is the point. We discount oil, electricity etc to them, and pretty much have equal trade after that with some protectionism on both sides to appraise local jurisdiction. Trump is blowing that up in rhetoric and reality.

When the deal is bullshit and the other side an asshole, people will walk away jut because of the hassle not being worth the money.

Logistics of course we won't end trade, it's too integrated, but clearly we need to be able to diversify our deals if the USA is going to go the protectionist route.

 

[Dutch Oven]

Do you realize that the way he is going about this is designed to not get the results you want?

The whole 51st schtick he is pulling has now become a serious pride issue up here. It's an escalation that can and will result in us pulling further away, and also becoming more transactional.

Seriously, when it comes to Canadians don't mistake our patience for passiveness.

Some people who know how to start fires also know how to put them out, at the right time. That's what professional negotiators do. Professional negotiators understand that whatever has to happen in a particular round of negotiations, where you have ongoing bargaining relationships you need to reel tensions back in as you make your deal. I trust that Trump knows this. His business resume includes many enduring business relationships.

I think many Canadians: 1) don't recognize the patterns of bargaining, and 2) prefer not to be so aware of how the sausage is made. Most people simply lack the insight and temperament to stay focused during bargaining. This kind of horse trading has ALWAYS gone on in the course of reaching trade agreements with the US. It's simply been hidden in back rooms in the past, and handled by underlings with no public voice.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

NO businessman would ever claim that trading with China and India is in any way better than trading with the US,

I guess the businessmen in the US who trade with China to the tune of 600B and with India to the tune of 100B should all be taking advice from you then.
You are trying to reason by conveniently pigeon holing yourself and then trying to argue as if there is no other way.
But there is always opportunity to improve bilateral and trade relations.
Yeah there may be local difficulties and corruption to get around.
So what? We will do it.
At the minimum it is a bad idea to put all your eggs in one basket because the US is in close proximity.
That needs to change and it will gradually.

 

[DesRicardo]

The problem with this is....ask Iraq, Libya, now Ukraine and Canada whether the USA security promises are being kept.

No one wants to be a casual period. But the USA had a pretty good deal running with us, and a shit ton of mutual cooperation. That just got blown right up.

Canada can't be compared to those countries. We are a stable nation and have the ability to meet targets.

I see this Orange Ape as more of a wake-up call, for both Canada and the American's. Even the EU.

 

[Dutch Oven]

It's better until it isn't. That is the point. We discount oil, electricity etc to them, and pretty much have equal trade after that with some protectionism on both sides to appraise local jurisdiction. Trump is blowing that up in rhetoric and reality.

When the deal is bullshit and the other side an asshole, people will walk away jut because of the hassle not being worth the money.

Logistics of course we won't end trade, it's too integrated, but clearly we need to be able to diversify our deals if the USA is going to go the protectionist route.

If a deal is profitable, a businessperson doesn't back away because of the hassle, unless he can make the SAME sale for the SAME profit with the SAME potential for repeat business with someone else. Any public company that did back out "for the hassle" would find its executives promptly ousted by the shareholders.

 

[Dutch Oven]

I guess the businessmen in the US who trade with China to the tune of 600B and with India to the tune of 100B should all be taking advice from you then.
You are trying to reason by conveniently pigeon holing yourself and then trying to argue as if there is no other way.
But there is always opportunity to improve bilateral and trade relations.
Yeah there may be local difficulties and corruption to get around.
So what? We will do it.
At the minimum it is a bad idea to put all your eggs in one basket because the US is in close proximity.
That needs to change and it will gradually.

You're confusing two different points. I didn't say selling to China is a mistake under any circumstances. If you have already saturated better markets with your product and can still turn SOME profit on further sales to China, of course that's what you would do. Or if your product is in such high demand in China that they go out of their way to wipe away their usual impediments/graft.

However what you are talking about is discontinuing trade with the US IN FAVOUR OF other markets. However, there aren't any better markets, which is why you choose to argue by straw man.

I think why so many Canadians are panicking is because our leaders are so bad at this game. They simply don't articulate the right points. For example, Canadian leaders should be saying that the trade deficit/surplus analysis is misleading because of the degree of US ownership of Canadian exporters. In short, a lot of the profit from Canadian exports is captured by US citizens. Also, there is not much history of manufacturing relocations from the US to Canada. There IS such a history with respect to Mexico and China. If the objective, in part, is to repatriate middle class jobs to the US, the problem and solution don't have much to do with Canada. I have yet to see a news report or press release where our leaders make these points, and that includes Ford who is equally clueless here.

Then you have to ask yourself whether these leaders want you to be scared so that they will get some credit when these issues are inevitably resolved.

Let me put this a slightly different way:

 

[Butler1000]

If a deal is profitable, a businessperson doesn't back away because of the hassle, unless he can make the SAME sale for the SAME profit with the SAME potential for repeat business with someone else. Any public company that did back out "for the hassle" would find its executives promptly ousted by the shareholders.

Trump is not making it mutuality profitable. Thats the point.

 

[Butler1000]

Some people who know how to start fires also know how to put them out, at the right time. That's what professional negotiators do. Professional negotiators understand that whatever has to happen in a particular round of negotiations, where you have ongoing bargaining relationships you need to reel tensions back in as you make your deal. I trust that Trump knows this. His business resume includes many enduring business relationships.

I think many Canadians: 1) don't recognize the patterns of bargaining, and 2) prefer not to be so aware of how the sausage is made. Most people simply lack the insight and temperament to stay focused during bargaining. This kind of horse trading has ALWAYS gone on in the course of reaching trade agreements with the US. It's simply been hidden in back rooms in the past, and handled by underlings with no public voice.

This isn't a boardroom. Or a merger. This is an international trade deal. With all the nuances and diplomacy that goes with it.

And the idiotic rhetoric about the 51st state HAS NEVER BEEN A PART OF THE CONVERSATION. Nations do walk away from this shit.

 

[Dutch Oven]

Nations do walk away from this shit.

Name one. And if you can, how did that work out for them?

Canada needs to keep its cool and engage better negotiators.

 

[Valcazar]

Guys, guys......

He also says he fully supports the House budget bill, which has a 100 billion INCREASE IN IT. He also hasn't discussed real cuts due to graft and corruption there due to EVERY failed audit.

Let's see what he signs.

Wow.
A rare moment of agreement.
This is just something Hesgeth said and Trump has contradicted himself a bunch of times on spending already in his first month.

Wait for what actually happens (or at least, what is actually pushed for).

 

[Dutch Oven]

Trump is not making it mutuality profitable. Thats the point.

You don't assess that until AFTER the negotiations. We're not there.

 

[DesRicardo]

You don't assess that until AFTER the negotiations. We're not there.

What about running his mouth before/during negotiations? Doesn't seem like this is mutual for us.

 

[Dutch Oven]

What about running his mouth before/during negotiations? Doesn't seem like his mutual us.

Could you restate your second sentence?

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

However what you are talking about is discontinuing trade with the US IN FAVOUR OF other markets. However, there aren't any better markets, which is why you choose to argue by straw man.

I did not say discontinue trade.
I said we should not put our eggs in one basket.
Yes that means diversifying trade with other nations.
I also do not agree that these other nations aren't better markets.
Markets are just markets and you need to engage in trade diplomacy to secure arrangements that work for you.
India, China etc are good, experienced nations with huge populations and economies that we already trade with.
So all we have to do is expand trade relations with them and we are perfectly capable of doing so.
The advantages you listed in an earlier post may or may not be true, but those aren't and shouldn't be the only driving forces for establishing and maintaining trade relations.
We cannot allow our economy to be held to ransom by a foreign state.

 

[jalimon]

Name one. And if you can, how did that work out for them?

Canada needs to keep its cool and engage better negotiators.

Just this past week I read articles by Stephen Harper, Michael Sabia, and a long-time leading columnist here in Quebec. The 3 of them said the same thing. You cannot negotiate nonsense.

Canada needs to wait it out and develop plans to sell our oil, steel, aluminum, and wood to other countries.

Canada has more resources than any country in the world. It will be tough short term but fine long term. The motto is to let the motherfucker Trump destroy his country, wait it out....

 

[richaceg]

This will cause a kerfuffel. America loves its war machine. What does it mean for the POS Nation handouts?

White House eyes annual 8% cut to defense budget through 2030

The move could reduce defense spending projections by hundreds of billions of dollars over the next five years.

www.militarytimes.com

are you pissed that the "POS nation" won't have much funding? Shouldn't you be celebrating about this?