Ashley Madison

Trump cuts off Ukraine at knees, We negotiate peace. then you do what we say.

nottyboi

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I also can't help but laugh at the notion the Ukrainians only had 2 choices: fight or give up land. They could've made so many more diplomatic and political concessions in the years leading up to the invasion, and had peace and prosperity.

Now they'll lose 25% of their land, untold economic potential, and an entire generation of young men. Because they listened to Joe fricken Biden and that buffoon Boris Johnson.
Crimea was gone, but they had the option of having Donbas as a semi autonomous republic like Chechnya is in Russia. If they were not such asses, they could had Russian investment in the East and EU investment in the West, and been a pretty rich nation like Azerbaijan levels of wealth. They coulda slashed military spending as a neutral nation, Ukraine coulda had a really bright future . 😞
 

boobtoucher

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May 25, 2021
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Even the head of NATO said it was about NATO, that was the principal reason, the genocide against Russians in Ukraine was the other. If Russia did not attack, the Ukrainians would have attacked Donbas and scores would have been killed as well as millions of refugees fleeing to Russia causing all kinds of security headaches. As it is there have already been a few terror incidents from Ukrainians in Russia.
I'd love for you to find me that quote. Because THIS head of NATO says they had talks with Russia, and would have been better to send MORE weapons to Ukraine, in 2014.


He also says:

My position is that this is a war of aggression by Russia against Ukraine. That’s a blatant violation of international law. According to international law, Ukraine has the right to self-defense, and the right to self-defense includes the right to strike legitimate military targets on the territory of the aggressor, Russia. I welcome that some allies have no restrictions, except it has to be within the limits of international law. And others have actually loosened their restrictions on the use of weapons.
Also, instead of parroting pundits, why not see what people who were in the room have to say?


During my tenure in Kyiv, State Department–sponsored public opinion polling never showed a majority of Ukrainian public support for NATO membership. Private sector polling showed that as late as 2012, only 28 percent of Ukrainians wished to join NATO. Not surprisingly, pro-Russian sentiment was stronger in the east, but the largest plurality was for neutrality. The 2014 Russian seizure of Crimea and the fomenting of a violent separatist movement in eastern Ukraine sharply shifted Ukrainian public opinion. A poll by the Democratic Initiatives Foundation in June 2017 found 69 percent supported joining the alliance.

Putin has promoted a narrative that the Western alliance took advantage of the chaos and weakness of Russia in the 1990s, and somehow pressured its former Warsaw Pact allies into joining NATO. But this was not the case at all. Having served in U.S. embassies for many years in communist Hungary (1986-1989) and later in post–Soviet bloc Ukraine (1997-1999) and Bulgaria (2009-2012), it is clear to me that Russia has mostly itself to blame for the alienation of its former allies.

As in the Kyiv NATO conference cited above, Western officials hardly took the initiative to strong-arm Eastern European countries into joining. On the contrary, starting with Hungary and Czechoslovakia, these former Soviet satellites whose aspirations for autonomy had been crushed by Soviet tanks (Budapest 1956, Prague Spring 1968) saw NATO membership as a shield from a future round of attacks from Russia. A wise post-Soviet Russian government policy would have been to issue swift and credible assurances that the era of Soviet-style suppression of true independence was past forever, and to implement that with concrete measures to reduce the threat perception.

Russia for its part would have benefited by reducing its burden of military expenditures. But Russian policy in the Putin years turned increasingly aggressive, beginning with the attack on Georgia in 2008, and then the annexation of Crimea, instigation of separatism in the eastern Donbas region, and the start of a troop buildup on the Ukrainian border in early 2021.
 
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nottyboi

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I'd love for you to find me that quote. Because THIS head of NATO says they had talks with Russia, and would have been better to send MORE weapons to Ukraine, in 2014.


He also says:



Also, instead of parroting pundits, why not see what people who were in the room have to say?



If you look at the 2017 poll, did that include Donbas and Crimea? you have to be careful about Ukraine polls before and after 2014.

 
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nottyboi

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So you see nothing wrong with Trump declaring a sovereign nation as unfit to even be at the negation table for a peace deal ? The same sovereign nation that the US promised to defend against invasion in exchange for its giving up its nukes ? The same sovereign nation that Trump tried to blackmail into opening a sham investigation against his political foe ?
Zelensky will only obstruct peace and ask Russia to surrender. Who needs that shit.
 
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nottyboi

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You bring up an interesting point. Europe will certainly reject any idiotic deals Trump agrees to with putin. This is all just another Trump show where he lies and claims he tried to end the war when he did nothing more than make things worse like he always does. What makes Trump think that he and putin can dictate the world order ? Trump pulled this lunacy in Afghanistan but the US was running the show there at this time. Now Europe has a decision - step up their funding and keep it going where MAGA will point their smelly fingers and say that NATO is to blame, or let it cave in. I say the former rather than the latter
Thats fine with Trump, he can just say he tried, wash his hands and hand over the hot potato. MAGA 1 has departed the building. 🫡
 
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nottyboi

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....................................

What if Ukraine exhausts its human resources of all the young people willing to
get killed? I guess the viable options are a) Forced conscriptions of unwilling
Ukrainians elderly and underaged included. b) the UK, Europe and Canada sending
in their troops to carry on the war until Putin is taken out.
Have you not seen the videos of them literally dragging men into white vans kicking and screaming? There have even been a couple of suicide bombings against the TCC, probably mothers who lost their only son and husband through conscription..
 
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kherg007

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May 3, 2014
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This is crazy shit, straight from Russia.
 

Frankfooter

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Apr 10, 2015
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would you like Trump to keep funding Ukraine? US is in a bad position to to escalate this conflict...it's costs them already billions of dollars while still struggling with inflation at home...what you leftists are really trying to do is gaslight US into this war, then claim Trump didn't deliver his promise to improve the US economy...
The US has been moving towards isolationism and trying to be the leader of a global empire for years. They worked against NATO and very hard against the UN in order to call themselves the 'world's cops'.

After a year of backing genocide, attacking the UN and ICC, trump decides all alliances are off. The deal with Ukraine is off, partnership with Canada is off and the only person trump will happily visit is Putin or Netanyahu.

To argue that trump is trying to end wars is idiotic. All he's done is change teams, with the US now backing Russia and Israel and saying screw off to the rest of the world.
 
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The US has been moving towards isolationism and trying to be the leader of a global empire for years. They worked against NATO and very hard against the UN in order to call themselves the 'world's cops'.

After a year of backing genocide, attacking the UN and ICC, trump decides all alliances are off. The deal with Ukraine is off, partnership with Canada is off and the only person trump will happily visit is Putin or Netanyahu.

To argue that trump is trying to end wars is idiotic. All he's done is change teams, with the US now backing Russia and Israel and saying screw off to the rest of the world.
Cutting off funding to Ukraine doesn't mean he's backing Russia. Why did they owe a single cent to Ukraine in the first place? That entire conflict was engineered by hawkish neocons who abhor Trump's policies. Why in the world does America owe Ukraine a single damned thing? Up until 2022 all the Western media rightfully called that place horribly corrupt and full of Nazi militants... Then overnight they're saints? Who wrote this movie lol

The bastards who profit from war wanted this war to continue. It's why scum sucking pigs like Dick frickin Cheney backed Kamala Harris for president. These are the people who destroyed the entire Middle East for their own financial benefit. All they ever want is war, and they're very good at selling it to you. In fact they're so good at the game, they have you repeating their sales pitch for them free or charge.
 
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nottyboi

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May 14, 2008
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The US has been moving towards isolationism and trying to be the leader of a global empire for years. They worked against NATO and very hard against the UN in order to call themselves the 'world's cops'.

After a year of backing genocide, attacking the UN and ICC, trump decides all alliances are off. The deal with Ukraine is off, partnership with Canada is off and the only person trump will happily visit is Putin or Netanyahu.

To argue that trump is trying to end wars is idiotic. All he's done is change teams, with the US now backing Russia and Israel and saying screw off to the rest of the world.
I don't think so. You need to look at Trumps first term for what he learned on the job. He asked the DOD, what do you need to win the Afghan war. They asked, he gave them EVERYTHING even the MOAB (which they used) and in the end NO FUCKING DIFFERENCE just more money and more dead people. To say that Trump has no confidence in the US military is an understatement. Same with Intel, he has been lied to again and again. There is a realization that the unipolar moment is over, You cannot stop Chinas, Indias rise or Russias rise. Demographics will assert themselves at some point, but until then, unless the USA is willing fight massive wars it has to cede space for others to play a role and grow.
 
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