Trump's "Art Of the Deal" by Prof. David Honig

Shaquille Oatmeal

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Found this on Facebook. Really good read:

The best, most cogent and elegantly simple explanation into the inexplicably destructive negotiating processes of the president, by Prof. David Honig of Indiana University. Everybody I know should read this accurate and enlightening piece...

“I’m going to get a little wonky and write about Donald Trump and negotiations. For those who don't know, I'm an adjunct professor at Indiana University - Robert H. McKinney School of Law and I teach negotiations. Okay, here goes.

Trump, as most of us know, is the credited author of "The Art of the Deal," a book that was actually ghost written by a man named Tony Schwartz, who was given access to Trump and wrote based upon his observations. If you've read The Art of the Deal, or if you've followed Trump lately, you'll know, even if you didn't know the label, that he sees all dealmaking as what we call "distributive bargaining."

Distributive bargaining always has a winner and a loser. It happens when there is a fixed quantity of something and two sides are fighting over how it gets distributed. Think of it as a pie and you're fighting over who gets how many pieces. In Trump's world, the bargaining was for a building, or for construction work, or subcontractors. He perceives a successful bargain as one in which there is a winner and a loser, so if he pays less than the seller wants, he wins. The more he saves the more he wins.

The other type of bargaining is called integrative bargaining. In integrative bargaining the two sides don't have a complete conflict of interest, and it is possible to reach mutually beneficial agreements. Think of it, not a single pie to be divided by two hungry people, but as a baker and a caterer negotiating over how many pies will be baked at what prices, and the nature of their ongoing relationship after this one gig is over.

The problem with Trump is that he sees only distributive bargaining in an international world that requires integrative bargaining. He can raise tariffs, but so can other countries. He can't demand they not respond. There is no defined end to the negotiation and there is no simple winner and loser. There are always more pies to be baked. Further, negotiations aren't binary. China's choices aren't (a) buy soybeans from US farmers, or (b) don't buy soybeans. They can also (c) buy soybeans from Russia, or Argentina, or Brazil, or Canada, etc. That completely strips the distributive bargainer of his power to win or lose, to control the negotiation.

One of the risks of distributive bargaining is bad will. In a one-time distributive bargain, e.g. negotiating with the cabinet maker in your casino about whether you're going to pay his whole bill or demand a discount, you don't have to worry about your ongoing credibility or the next deal. If you do that to the cabinet maker, you can bet he won't agree to do the cabinets in your next casino, and you're going to have to find another cabinet maker.
There isn't another Canada.

So when you approach international negotiation, in a world as complex as ours, with integrated economies and multiple buyers and sellers, you simply must approach them through integrative bargaining. If you attempt distributive bargaining, success is impossible. And we see that already.

Trump has raised tariffs on China. China responded, in addition to raising tariffs on US goods, by dropping all its soybean orders from the US and buying them from Russia. The effect is not only to cause tremendous harm to US farmers, but also to increase Russian revenue, making Russia less susceptible to sanctions and boycotts, increasing its economic and political power in the world, and reducing ours. Trump saw steel and aluminum and thought it would be an easy win, BECAUSE HE SAW ONLY STEEL AND ALUMINUM - HE SEES EVERY NEGOTIATION AS DISTRIBUTIVE. China saw it as integrative, and integrated Russia and its soybean purchase orders into a far more complex negotiation ecosystem.

Trump has the same weakness politically. For every winner there must be a loser. And that's just not how politics works, not over the long run.

For people who study negotiations, this is incredibly basic stuff, negotiations 101, definitions you learn before you even start talking about styles and tactics. And here's another huge problem for us.

Trump is utterly convinced that his experience in a closely held real estate company has prepared him to run a nation, and therefore he rejects the advice of people who spent entire careers studying the nuances of international negotiations and diplomacy. But the leaders on the other side of the table have not eschewed expertise, they have embraced it. And that means they look at Trump and, given his very limited tool chest and his blindly distributive understanding of negotiation, they know exactly what he is going to do and exactly how to respond to it.

From a professional negotiation point of view, Trump isn't even bringing checkers to a chess match. He's bringing a quarter that he insists of flipping for heads or tails, while everybody else is studying the chess board to decide whether its better to open with Najdorf or Grünfeld.”
— David Honig

475900560_1166676761496865_2559718649826673657_n.jpg
 

PeterParker1000

Well-known member
Oct 14, 2024
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63
Found this on Facebook. Really good read:

The best, most cogent and elegantly simple explanation into the inexplicably destructive negotiating processes of the president, by Prof. David Honig of Indiana University. Everybody I know should read this accurate and enlightening piece...

“I’m going to get a little wonky and write about Donald Trump and negotiations. For those who don't know, I'm an adjunct professor at Indiana University - Robert H. McKinney School of Law and I teach negotiations. Okay, here goes.

Trump, as most of us know, is the credited author of "The Art of the Deal," a book that was actually ghost written by a man named Tony Schwartz, who was given access to Trump and wrote based upon his observations. If you've read The Art of the Deal, or if you've followed Trump lately, you'll know, even if you didn't know the label, that he sees all dealmaking as what we call "distributive bargaining."

Distributive bargaining always has a winner and a loser. It happens when there is a fixed quantity of something and two sides are fighting over how it gets distributed. Think of it as a pie and you're fighting over who gets how many pieces. In Trump's world, the bargaining was for a building, or for construction work, or subcontractors. He perceives a successful bargain as one in which there is a winner and a loser, so if he pays less than the seller wants, he wins. The more he saves the more he wins.

The other type of bargaining is called integrative bargaining. In integrative bargaining the two sides don't have a complete conflict of interest, and it is possible to reach mutually beneficial agreements. Think of it, not a single pie to be divided by two hungry people, but as a baker and a caterer negotiating over how many pies will be baked at what prices, and the nature of their ongoing relationship after this one gig is over.

The problem with Trump is that he sees only distributive bargaining in an international world that requires integrative bargaining. He can raise tariffs, but so can other countries. He can't demand they not respond. There is no defined end to the negotiation and there is no simple winner and loser. There are always more pies to be baked. Further, negotiations aren't binary. China's choices aren't (a) buy soybeans from US farmers, or (b) don't buy soybeans. They can also (c) buy soybeans from Russia, or Argentina, or Brazil, or Canada, etc. That completely strips the distributive bargainer of his power to win or lose, to control the negotiation.

One of the risks of distributive bargaining is bad will. In a one-time distributive bargain, e.g. negotiating with the cabinet maker in your casino about whether you're going to pay his whole bill or demand a discount, you don't have to worry about your ongoing credibility or the next deal. If you do that to the cabinet maker, you can bet he won't agree to do the cabinets in your next casino, and you're going to have to find another cabinet maker.
There isn't another Canada.

So when you approach international negotiation, in a world as complex as ours, with integrated economies and multiple buyers and sellers, you simply must approach them through integrative bargaining. If you attempt distributive bargaining, success is impossible. And we see that already.

Trump has raised tariffs on China. China responded, in addition to raising tariffs on US goods, by dropping all its soybean orders from the US and buying them from Russia. The effect is not only to cause tremendous harm to US farmers, but also to increase Russian revenue, making Russia less susceptible to sanctions and boycotts, increasing its economic and political power in the world, and reducing ours. Trump saw steel and aluminum and thought it would be an easy win, BECAUSE HE SAW ONLY STEEL AND ALUMINUM - HE SEES EVERY NEGOTIATION AS DISTRIBUTIVE. China saw it as integrative, and integrated Russia and its soybean purchase orders into a far more complex negotiation ecosystem.

Trump has the same weakness politically. For every winner there must be a loser. And that's just not how politics works, not over the long run.

For people who study negotiations, this is incredibly basic stuff, negotiations 101, definitions you learn before you even start talking about styles and tactics. And here's another huge problem for us.

Trump is utterly convinced that his experience in a closely held real estate company has prepared him to run a nation, and therefore he rejects the advice of people who spent entire careers studying the nuances of international negotiations and diplomacy. But the leaders on the other side of the table have not eschewed expertise, they have embraced it. And that means they look at Trump and, given his very limited tool chest and his blindly distributive understanding of negotiation, they know exactly what he is going to do and exactly how to respond to it.

From a professional negotiation point of view, Trump isn't even bringing checkers to a chess match. He's bringing a quarter that he insists of flipping for heads or tails, while everybody else is studying the chess board to decide whether its better to open with Najdorf or Grünfeld.”
— David Honig

View attachment 404071
Those who can, do, those who can’t, teach. I wonder how much money this adjunct has made with his skills.
 

jalimon

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Jan 10, 2016
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Those who can, do, those who can’t, teach. I wonder how much money this adjunct has made with his skills.
Putting what he got in the 80s on the SP500 market would have made Trump much richer than he is today.

Trump sees all deals as a win/lose situation. He wants to win and crush his opponents. That led him to so many problems and bankruptcies. Great businessman makes win/win situations a priority.

Trump is a showman. Nothing else. That's why his show got so popular. And he should have stuck to that.
 

PeterParker1000

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Oct 14, 2024
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Those who can't incoherently ramble. Like Trump.
I believe he does both integrative and distributive. You can’t survive with the sharks of NY in the 80’s by not doing both. He’s learned to do both but may use distributive more.

Also, unemployed professor says you need integrative to survive in international trade. This is not what China does and they are arguably the most successful at this in the last two decades. Trump main task at the end of the day is to take on China. All these side quests with these shit countries is to strengthen up America to be able to compete with the main boss, Canada. To beat China, you have to play as they do.

That chess analogy is also flawed. Trump is highly unpredictable and makes moves that the books say not to make. You play chess against anyone who isn’t maybe an international master (chess level) that way, they are going to be throwing the pieces in frustration and making bad moves ( which is what his opponents are doing - look at chaos with the democrats right now). I’ve seen Magnus Carlson do this and when you make the first couple moves outside traditional play, it drives his opponents insane and they don’t recover. Most current world leaders are not at that grand master (chess) level to really know how to challenge a chaos type of playing style.
 
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PeterParker1000

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Oct 14, 2024
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That’s w
Doing in business does not necessarily equate to doing in national and international politics. trump is proving that.
No it doesn’t equate but we are constantly evolving in geopolitics and coming up against new scenarios. It is a more connected, transactional, capitalistic world.

Why can’t we do politics in a similar way to business?
 
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Shaquille Oatmeal

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I believe he does both integrative and distributive. You can’t survive with the sharks of NY in the 80’s by only doing both. He’s learned to do both but may use distributive more.

Also, unemployed professor says you need integrative to survive in international trade. This is not what China does and they are arguably the most successful at this in the last two decades. Trump main task at the end of the day is to take on China. All these side quests with these shit countries is to strengthen up America to be able to compete with the main boss, Canada. To beat China, you have to play as they do.

That chess analogy is also flawed. Trump is highly unpredictable and makes moves that the books say not to make. You play chess against anyone who isn’t maybe an international master (chess level) that way, they are going to be throwing the pieces in frustration and making bad moves ( which is what his opponents are doing - look at chaos with the democrats right now). I’ve seen Magnus Carlson do this and when you make the first couple moves outside traditional play, it drives his opponents insane and they don’t recover. Most current world leaders are not at that grand master (chess) level to really know how to challenge a chaos type of playing style.
Trump is not unpredictable at all.
He is infact very predictable.
The only reason people express shock when he says something is because it is clear that he is out to lunch and his policies are dangerous and has people worried.
He always talks about "winning" so he does see negotiations as a zero sum game.
And as the author already noted, his gambit against China seems to have backfired, with retaliatory tariffs and cancellations of contracts which will hurt American businesses.
Infact the tariff on China does not make sense because even with a 10% tariff that Trump imposed, manufacturing in China will still be many times cheaper, which just means your consumer prices went up for no reason, while they stop buying from your businesses. Double whammy that shows that Trump is out of his depth.
He does not know what he is doing and he stays afloat because of 2 reasons - the US is the most powerful country and he is the most powerful leader by virtue of his position.
And he has yes men and MAGA mental gymnasts surrounding him who will do everything in their power to spin everything he does into a positive.
 

joao leite

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Dec 26, 2024
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Those who can, do, those who can’t, teach. I wonder how much money this adjunct has made with his skills.
Imagine trying to make teaching sound bad, and because of money?? Teaching is not something we invented in the modern era, and if you know something in your life nowadays, if you have a language you can write and understand, that's because people where taught that, and passed it on. If you think the act of teaching is bad because it doesn't make you money, you are stupid.
 

PeterParker1000

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Oct 14, 2024
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Imagine trying to make teaching sound bad, and because of money?? Teaching is not something we invented in the modern era, and if you know something in your life nowadays, if you have a language you can write and understand, that's because people where taught that, and passed it on. If you think the act of teaching is bad because it doesn't make you money, you are stupid.
Hell yeah I did, what’re you going to do about it lol. You triggered little clown.

In all seriousness, I’m not even taking a shot at teachers. I’m taking a shot at non STEM college professors. Everything they do is theoretical. Most don’t have practical experience. This guy is an adjunct so we know he’s either retired or can’t get back into his field.

Two roles I respect are teachers and police. I’ve always advocated higher pay for public school teachers as it’s such a critical role.
 
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PeterParker1000

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Because serving the welfare of the people is not the same as maximizing shareholder value often at the expense of the welfare of the people.
Why not give it a try. See where it takes us. Maybe the welfare of people might get increased as well. What base skill sets do career politicans bring that rival the experience of a large company ceo.
 
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danmand

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Hell yeah I did, what’re you going to do about it lol. You triggered little clown.

I’m not even taking a shot at primary and secondary school teachers. I’m taking a shot at non STEM college professors. Everything they do is theoretical. Most don’t have practical experience. This guy is an adjunct so we other he’s retired or can’t back into his field.
I do not know why you want to discuss the merits of university professors, but we all have our wooden horses, as we say In Denmark, mine is lawyers.

Would it not be more productive to address the points professor Honig is making. I suspect you disagree with him. I am sure many of us would like to read your arguments against his points.
 
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