Biden issues pre-emptive pardons in final hours for Anthony Fauci, Liz Cheney, Milley and others

[WyattEarp]

This is what I am talking about.
The Supreme Court has decided.
You are asking "bring it back and see if it can get overturned".

Why be coy?
Also, you know that Trump's executive order is not limited to "mothers who enter the country illegally".

I've read the 1898 decision. I think it applies to a situation at a specific time in our history.

As far as how broad Trump's executive order is will be something the Court will examine.

I actually suspect lots of people care about this more than you realize.

I don't agree. Of course "more" relative to what I "realize" is subjective.

 

[kherg007]

As usual this is more for show than reality.
The basics require overturning a US constitutional amendment which requires 3/4ths of the states, not an executive order.
However, I've never been opposed to distinguishing legal from illegal immigrants.

 

[bver_hunter]

Wouldn't a Court and Judge make sentencing determinations?.

Some of us were discussing Hillary Clinton's mishandling of confidential communications earlier. In that instance, FBI Director Comey basically said Hillary violated the law, but didn't think the case should be pursued.

Not true. This is what Comey stated:

He characterized the investigation findings as showing that Clinton and her team were “extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information” but he said there was no clear evidence they intended to violate the law.

Then of course, there was the recent pardon of Hunter Biden by his father.

So you see, you have recent examples of other politicians or their families not being prosecuted or given prison sentences.

Hunter Biden pleaded guilty and was then pardoned by his father. The whole case went to Court without delays unlike the Trump cases!!

 

[Skoob]

If it is a witch hunt, there is sure lots of things he has to worry about.
Trump has promised to weaponize the DOJ for his own purposes.
I am pretty sure we will see pretty serious undermining of democratic values from within the administration.

Imagine that!
A witch hunt!

I mean can you imagine if the Dems conducted witch hunts against Trump all these past years?

I know...hard to imagine right?

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

I know...hard to imagine right?

Yeah it is hard to imagine.
Because it never happened.

 

[bver_hunter]

"The violent ones won't be pardoned" was the fake reasonable position people were trying to take because just releasing everyone made some people uncomfortable.
They don't need to pretend anymore.

Yet one or two right wingers on this Board were accusing me of saying that Trump will pardon even the violent ones was supposed to be false.........ROTFLMAO!!

 

[Skoob]

Yeah it is hard to imagine.
Because it never happened.

Then you haven't been paying attention.
Or perhaps have "convenient amnesia".

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

Then you haven't been paying attention.
Or perhaps have "convenient amnesia".

No I remember the trial and conviction in a court of law.

 

[Valcazar]

As usual this is more for show than reality.
The basics require overturning a US constitutional amendment which requires 3/4ths of the states, not an executive order.
However, I've never been opposed to distinguishing legal from illegal immigrants.

No, they don't.
Pay attention to how Wyatt is saying the Court's previous decision is wrong.

"It applies to a situation at a specific time in our history."

In other words, the meaning of "subject to the jurisdiction" has changed.
That's also how Trump's order is phrasing it.

So no change in the constitution is needed, the words just don't mean what people think they mean and need to mean something else now.
From now on, "subject to the jurisdiction" means at least one of your parents needs to be a citizen or permanent resident.
If not,then you aren't subject to the jurisdiction of the United States when you are born.

Remember, the words of the Constitution mean what the current supreme court decides they mean.
At least, according to the Supreme Court.

It's not just for show.

 

[Skoob]

No I remember the trial and conviction in a court of law.

Still many witch hunts brought against him using the weaponized justice system.

Feels different when the show is on the other foot now doesn't it?

Have you asked yourself what horrific things the people Biden has proactively pardoned have done? I mean who pardons people before they have been convicted of something.

That gives you an idea of how bad the stuff they've done is.

 

[WyattEarp]

Not true. This is what Comey stated:

Hunter Biden pleaded guilty and was then pardoned by his father. The whole case went to Court without delays unlike the Trump cases!!

This is what Comey also said "Although there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past."

The problem is the statute does not require intent be proven. In fact, people have been punished for simply making mistakes with classified information. There's also the issue that was raised back in 2016 that Comey and the FBI were the investigators not the prosecutor.

And lastly, of course the Hunter case was substantially delayed. The prosecutor offered a sweeping plea deal to Hunter in July 2023. If you remember, the Judge found it unworkable. After going back to the drawing board, Hunter and his team rejected a new narrower plea deal offered.

 

[jimiagain]

Still many witch hunts brought against him using the weaponized justice system.

Feels different when the show is on the other foot now doesn't it?

Have you asked yourself what horrific things the people Biden has proactively pardoned have done? I mean who pardons people before they have been convicted of something.

That gives you an idea of how bad the stuff they've done is.

Amen!

 

[bver_hunter]

This is what Comey also said "Although there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past."

The problem is the statute does not require intent be proven. In fact, people have been punished for simply making mistakes with classified information.

And last but least, of course the Hunter case was substantially delayed. The prosecutor offered a sweeping plea deal to Hunter in July 2023. If you remember, the Judge found it unworkable. After going back to the drawing board, Hunter and his team rejected a new narrower plea deal offered.

Potential violation does not mean that it was confirmed as breaking the law. That was prior to closing the case, and when Comey then confirmed what I stated previously:

He characterized the investigation findings as showing that Clinton and her team were “extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information” but he said there was no clear evidence they intended to violate the law.

Hunter's delay was nothing like Trump's delays since the start of the Insurrection on January 2021. Almost 4 years and still unresolved!!

 

[WyattEarp]

Potential violation does not mean that it was confirmed as breaking the law. That was prior to closing the case, and when Comey then confirmed what I stated previously:

It was a word salad. I later amended my post to say that Comey and the FBI were not the prosecutors. They were merely investigating and collecting evidence.

Hunter's delay was nothing like Trump's delays since the start of the Insurrection on January 2021. Almost 4 years and still unresolved!!

Oh really.

Per Wikipedia: On August 1, 2023, a grand jury indicted Trump on four federal charges related to his attempts to overturn the 2020 presidential election and his conduct during the January 6 Capitol attack. This delay is solely on the prosecution.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

Still many witch hunts brought against him using the weaponized justice system.

It isn't a witch hunt when one is guilty of falsifying business records.
It isn't a witch hunt if one is found liable for sexual abuse.
It is a witch hunt if none of those things are true, and did not happen.
But they did happen and Trump is guilty.
What is Fauci guilty of?
Recommending lockdowns, mask mandates and vaccine mandates during a global pandemic killing millions to save lives?

 

[James3434]

History will prove Biden is top 5 president of all time. He has done a lot for USA economy. For example. Biden made a lot of money for the USA Federal Reserve by selling strategic petroleum reserves inventory when prices were high. The influx caused a massive over supply in the market, which hammered Russia's income potential. Biden then restocked the reserves when prices were low. People have the nerve to think Biden will not be top 5 in the history books.

 

[bver_hunter]

It was a word salad. I later amended my post to say that Comey and the FBI were not the prosecutors. They were merely investigating and collecting evidence.

So if there was just negligence and no evidence of wrongdoing to move the case forward, then what is your point?

Oh really.

Per Wikipedia: On August 1, 2023, a grand jury indicted Trump on four federal charges related to his attempts to overturn the 2020 presidential election and his conduct during the January 6 Capitol attack. This delay is solely on the prosecution.

The case is not over until the Judge makes his final decision as to the punishments for the crimes!!

Judges delay Jan. 6 trials on verge of Trump presidency
It’s the first time federal judges have acquiesced to the demands of Jan. 6 defendants for delays in anticipation of potential pardons from Trump.

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/11/14/jan-6-trial-delay-donald-trump-00189578

However, it was initially delayed by the Supreme Court:

Supreme Court's immunity ruling will delay Trump's Jan. 6 case until after the election

The conservative majority's decision will likely set off hearings to determine what allegations in Trump’s federal interference case are official acts and thus potentially immune.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Valcazar]

So if there was just negligence and no evidence of wrongdoing to move the case forward, then what is your point?

His point is that other people have been punished for simple mistakes/negligence.
Presumably Clinton should have suffered similar punishment (which presumably he will provide so we can assess how fair that would be and how similar the cases are).

 

[mitchell76]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1881795050461593689

 

[kherg007]

No, they don't.
Pay attention to how Wyatt is saying the Court's previous decision is wrong.

"It applies to a situation at a specific time in our history."

In other words, the meaning of "subject to the jurisdiction" has changed.
That's also how Trump's order is phrasing it.

So no change in the constitution is needed, the words just don't mean what people think they mean and need to mean something else now.
From now on, "subject to the jurisdiction" means at least one of your parents needs to be a citizen or permanent resident.
If not,then you aren't subject to the jurisdiction of the United States when you are born.

Remember, the words of the Constitution mean what the current supreme court decides they mean.
At least, according to the Supreme Court.

It's not just for show.

All true. I was making a general point. I'm not supporting this thing as it's so broad and it seems written for more lay audiences.