Harris lost because of support for Israel

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shack

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Oct 2, 2001
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Frankfooter said:
That's an old poll taken before the election.
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Only a few weeks prior and most people had admittedly already made up their collective mind.

Frankfooter said:
I posted a new poll that asks the specific questions about why people didn't vote.
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Cherry picking.
Frankfooter said:
Own it, your genocide put trump in power.
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I disagree, but so what? What happens if your statement is true? Nothing is going to change. It's like you're looking for arguments for no apparent reason. There is nothing to be gained.
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Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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shack said:
You quoted Leimonis yet did not address a single point he made.

Instead it was nothing more than your mantra "Genocide. Zionism. AIPAC."
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On the contrary, leimonis copy and pasted some list of hasbara claims about how good it is for the US to back genocide and I posted a report on HRW's views on the US in the aftermath. Directly relevant.

What did you offer?
nothing

shack said:
Same old. Same old.
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The mods don't like the trolling responses.

This is the US facing questions about policy.
Zionists can never answer, only use force.
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1879931426629620223
 
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Frankfooter

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shack said:
I don't think you read the post because I explained that it's had nothing to do with luck.

It's been a very smart long term strategy that has been superbly executed.
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You think this was smart, making zionist = genocide and your PM a war criminal?
You really think committing genocide was 'superbly executed'?

 
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Klatuu

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Dec 31, 2022
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shack said:
They've played their hand very smartly since they became a recognized state in 1948 when they accepted the land that was offered to them. They know how to play the game.

They have placed a premium on making themselves valuable to the US. They realized immediately that that strategy was crucial. They needed to make the most powerful nation on earth a strong ally and supporter. And they've implemented that strategy very well and on various levels as you just showed us here. But they have many, many other ways to curry favour with the US. It seems that the most common tactic by the Arab entities is to use violence and intimidation throughout Europe and N. America to try to get people to accommodate their wishes. We all know how that has worked out for them.

Israel is using the tools that are available to them. What's wrong with that? It just makes perfect sense. They are smart. That's like his opponents saying that Ali cheated when he won all those boxing matches. "It was unfair for him to use his hand speed, agility and the ability to float like a butterfly", because they didn't have those things. Wah. Wah. Wah. Only the losers need to resort to excuses. The winners celebrate.
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Brainwashed & Delusional Fan Boi
 
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Leimonis

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Feb 28, 2020
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shack said:
You quoted Leimonis yet did not address a single point he made.

Instead it was nothing more than your mantra "Genocide. Zionism. AIPAC."
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They can’t address it because they can’t admit they actually want all of those things to happen.
One more proof that they only understand the language in which IDF is speaking.
 
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PeterParker1000

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Most people in then United States did not care what was happening in Israel and Palestine despite the media sensationalization. Immigration, inflation, and the waste of money in Ukraine were what the AVERAGE person cared about.
 
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Klatuu

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Leimonis said:
What would happen if America stopped supporting israel and it would lead to arabs slaughtering and ethnically cleansing Jews from the river to the sea?

The reputation of the United States would likely suffer profound consequences on multiple fronts if it ceased supporting Israel, resulting in large-scale violence or ethnic cleansing of Jewish populations by Arab states or groups. The impact would depend on the global and domestic context, but here are some likely scenarios:

1. Damage to Moral Credibility

• Humanitarian Failure: If the U.S. disengagement was seen as enabling or ignoring atrocities against Jews, it would be viewed as a betrayal of democratic and humanitarian values, given America’s historical commitment to preventing genocide (e.g., post-Holocaust) and protecting vulnerable populations.

• Loss of Moral Authority: The U.S. would lose moral credibility on the global stage, weakening its ability to advocate for human rights and international law elsewhere.

2. Strained Relations with Allies

• Western Allies: Many of America’s closest allies (e.g., European nations) might condemn the abandonment of Israel and question the U.S.’s reliability as a partner. This could harm NATO cohesion and other alliances.

• Jewish Diaspora Communities: Jewish communities worldwide, particularly in the U.S., would feel alienated, potentially leading to domestic political backlash and fractures within the U.S.

3. Strategic and Geopolitical Fallout

• Loss of Middle East Influence: Disengagement from Israel could be seen as ceding ground to rival powers like Russia or China, who might step in to fill the vacuum and bolster their own influence in the region.

• Encouragement of Aggression: A lack of U.S. support could embolden hostile actors not just in the Middle East but globally, undermining deterrence and inviting further instability.

4. Domestic Repercussions

• Political Divides: In the U.S., the decision could deepen divisions between pro-Israel and anti-Israel factions, intensifying cultural and political polarization.

• Loss of Jewish-American Support: Jewish-Americans, a politically active and influential demographic, might shift their support away from political leaders or parties perceived as abandoning Israel.

5. Repercussions for Global Order

• Undermining International Norms: Allowing ethnic cleansing without intervention would set a dangerous precedent, undermining norms against genocide and crimes against humanity.

• Rise in Antisemitism: Globally, such events could lead to increased antisemitism, as the failure to protect Jews might signal a lack of commitment to fighting hatred and discrimination.

6. Historical Parallels and Legacy

• The situation could be compared to past failures to prevent genocide (e.g., Rwanda, the Holocaust). The U.S. could be criticized in history books as complicit in atrocities by omission, a legacy that would tarnish its global standing for decades.

Conclusion

Abandoning Israel and indirectly allowing violence or ethnic cleansing would severely damage America’s reputation as a global leader committed to democracy, human rights, and stability. This reputational damage would have far-reaching consequences for U.S. influence, alliances, and domestic cohesion.
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A pencil in need of a sharpener
 
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southpaw

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richaceg said:
You think the US have a choice why they side with Israel? the other side hate the west. it's a no brainer.
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Maybe so, but they wouldn't attack the west if it didn't support their enemies. And it's not like that support is heartfelt. It's coerced.
 
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southpaw

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basketcase

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Butler1000 said:
Harris recieved 19 million less votes. Was it enough Of a factor on its own? No. Added to a collective of other issues? Yes. A tipping point. The argument is compelling.
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I'm not arguing it was one factor but actual polling shows issues like the economy and fears over immigration played a far larger role. Unlike Frank, most Americans aren't fixated solely in Israel.
 
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