Kamala Harris lost because "The View" cast supported her and who the fuck wanted to be on their side.
Harris lost because of support for Israel
- Thread starter Frankfooter
- Start date
She would have lost some of the hard left vote but it wouldn't have made a difference. I'd say the majority of them probably voted for Jill Stein, who ended up with less than 0.5% of the popular vote. Your source here is astonishingly incorrect. Trump won the national vote by over 2%, and without CA by 4%.
Nope, its all covered in the poll in the OP.
'Damning' New Poll Shows Price Kamala Harris Paid for Backing Israeli Genocide in Gaza | Common Dreams
Vice President Kamala Harris' refusal to break with the Biden administration's support for Israel's assault on Gaza cost her millions of potential Democratic voters. Will the Democratic Party learn from this and listen to its voters who want leaders to oppose sending more weapons to Israel...
www.commondreams.org
Yes, polling shows it was an issue for a small segment of people but it is patently idiotic to claim that a refusal to back hamas is what cost her the win. But so is the whole narrative of Biden's middling policy made him to blame for 'genocide'.
Yes, Israel is a western style democracy. Like Canada, citizens are free to vote for any party and any candidate and are free to run for any office. Also like Canada, non-citizens aren't allowed to vote, especially those who don't want to be citizens.
Is this your defense for obsessively blaming American Jews even though AIPAC is far less influential that Christian lobbies?
I guess Palestinians will have to 'own' Trump's very-anti-Palestinian viewpoint, just so some Americans could feel smug about themselves.
The article Frank posted here says " the 19 million people who voted for President Joe Biden in 2020 but did not vote in 2024 ", which is a more specific claim than your "Harris received 19 million less votes".
I'm not sure where either version of the number comes from, though.
Presumably this is documented somewhere?
The specificity of 19-million people who voted for President Joe Biden but did not vote in 2024 is kind of amazing.
I don't see how they would have gotten that information.
To be fair, that's not the argument the original piece is making.
Besides the fact that your numbers are from a month before the election, the argument here is that among people who voted for Biden in 2020 and didn't vote for Harris, enough say the most important reason for that shift was Gaza that you can prove it swung the election.
Which... seems dubious given the numbers they put up.
Did it play a factor? Of course. In a close election, everything does.
But the numbers in this article don't really seem to be definitive proof of anything other than there were some people who say it was an important factor for them.
Last edited:
Perfect example.
Even if you take the most GENEROUS reading of this finding - that those 50% actually would have voted for Harris instead (Something they weren't asked), that result means she doesn't win a single additional state.
You're not quite right about those numbers. Stein and Harris both got more than you are claiming here.
Stein - 862,049 votes / 0.56%
(Note that the total vote for "other than the two major parties" clocked in at a bit below 2%.)
Trump: 77,302,580 / 49.80%
Harris: 75,017,613 / 48.32%
As you can see, Harris lost by less than 1.5%
If you take out California, it gets up to just under 4%, so you are right about that.
Trump: 71,220,883 / 51.10%
Harris: 65,741,434 / 47.17%
Consider it a part of general war weariness that included Ukraine and the defense budget. They weren't necessarily caring about the people in Gaza, but about the fact their tax dollars weren't being spent to solve obvious problems at home. That is my consistent take in speaking to my US contacts.
Numbers are presumably an extrapolate including the differences between 2020 vote count to 2024 votes count, and adding in projected total voters based on population. Both in vote switches an couch surfers and down ballot only votes.
Probably on the high side, it's Frankie after all. But 10 million is not out of line. Considering the margins in some places, and how it changed young people voting patterns, maybe for decades, it's important to note this as a real problem for the Democratic Party.
Then the poll is about as reliable as the Astra Zeneca covid shot.Nope, its all covered in the poll in the OP.
'Damning' New Poll Shows Price Kamala Harris Paid for Backing Israeli Genocide in Gaza | Common Dreams
Vice President Kamala Harris' refusal to break with the Biden administration's support for Israel's assault on Gaza cost her millions of potential Democratic voters. Will the Democratic Party learn from this and listen to its voters who want leaders to oppose sending more weapons to Israel...
So you have no idea where the "19 million" comes from or why your version of it is different from what is in Frank's article?
It's just a number floating out there with no source that at best you think is a projection or educated guess?
You're the one who said 19 million.
You didn't appear to be quoting the same article when you did so.
It's a number that has floated through numerous sources.
You are getting fixated again. Tone down the OCD a bit will ya.
I realize that we have a different attitude about facts and figures.
That's been long established.
But while this election I think decisively wins the argument in your favor that politically, facts and policy don't matter (or rather, they matter such a tiny amount as to be negligible), I will continue to value them.
So yes, I would like to know where the 19 millions comes from and what it refers to, since "It's a number that has floated through numerous sources" only tells me that it has become politically useful and nothing about whether or not it is even remotely true.
But don't worry, you've made it clear you don't care to know if the numbers you use are true or just "feel true", and so I won't expect you to provide me with an answer.
If you like.
But given that a major theme of the next four years is going to be "Let's just lie about the facts because they are inconvenient," I do intend to actually put them out there when I can.
