TRUMP WINS

[JohnLarue]

That people dont have freedom at all in China is a Western myth designed to malign the nation as it is an economic rival.

WTF??

They do not have the freedom to remove the ruling commie party via the vote nor the freedom to criticize the regime via free speech
they have been murdering their citizens for 80 years in this evil failed experiment. They have only become an economic rival in the last 20 years

20 to 50 million (or more) of their own people. more dead bodies than the poster boy for evil , Hitler, and more than the monster Stalin
Are you going to give them a pass too ?

I agree there are human rights abuses committed by the Chinese government.
But western nations do it too.
Perhaps a bit less than China, but abuse is abuse.

a bit less / more?

a western politician who abuses human rights faces defeat by the citizens via the ballot box , criminal charges and prison
a Chinese politician who abuses human rights faces a promotion within the party, increased wealth and power provided the abuses aligns with party objectives

Without freedoms there can be no economic success.

This is where the discussion should have come to a full stop

The Soviet Union is a good example of this.
They left behind economic ruin.
China is not in this category.

Wrong
China imported the commie ideals from the Soviet Union

The fact there is economic success means there is freedom.

Again, no it does not
Without the right to remove the rulers via the vote it is not freedom
Without the right to remove the rulers via the vote it is not freedom
Without the right to remove the rulers via the vote it is not freedom

May be not the freedoms of expression we have, but their people are okay with it.

WTF ???
The people are OK with it because they know they stop breathing if they are not
Murdering 20 to 50 million (or more) of the citizen's tends to ensure compliance

So for all intents and purposes, China is a resounding and emphatic success story.

No it is a very sad disaster and its just plain evil
Just look at the body count

 

[Frankfooter]

just like to point out that

1. I am not angry at all

2. the only person that mentioned "hate" is you

3. the only person that mentioned "violence and segregation" is also you

but in order to offer an olive branch to you

I suggest that we all see ourselves first as human beings and take care of one another first

if any goverment can't solve basic issues of homelessness or hunger for all it's citizens

then they have no right to bring up more complex issues of different individual groups

This thread is 'IN YOUR FACE LEFTIES...."
You really declaring that right wingers are civil?

 

[JuanGoodman]

This thread is 'IN YOUR FACE LEFTIES...."
You really declaring that right wingers are civil?

absolutely

payback is a bitch, isn't it

we are just finally saying ENOUGH !

sorry it offends you

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

How about an illegal that has been in the USA for decades then commits robbery or murder. Should they be deported or do they get to stay because they've "planted roots"?

So generally illegal immigrants commit less crime than citizens.
Native born Americans, followed by illegal immigrants, followed by legal immigrants - order of criminality.
However a substantial number of Americans think immigration and crime are related.

See this report.

https://www.cato.org/blog/new-research-illegal-immigration-crime-0

In 2018, the illegal immigrant criminal conviction rate was 782 per 100,000 illegal immigrants, 535 per 100,000 legal immigrants, and 1,422 per 100,000 native-born Americans. The illegal immigrant criminal conviction rate was 45 percent below that of native-born Americans in Texas. The general pattern of native-born Americans having the highest criminal conviction rates followed by illegal immigrants and then with legal immigrants having the lowest holds for all of other specific types of crimes such as violent crimes, property crimes, homicide, and sex crimes.
There is more and more evidence that immigrants, regardless of legal status, are less likely to commit crimes than native-born Americans. However, a substantial number of Americans still think that immigration increases crime. As more evidence builds over time, we can only hope that Americans respond by updating their opinions so that they fit the facts.

So the longer they stay, the less likely they are to commit crime.
If it does happen, then it should be considered along humanitarian grounds to see if they have roots, families etc.,

 

[Frankfooter]

absolutely

payback is a bitch, isn't it

we are just finally saying ENOUGH !

sorry it offends you

You've been saying the same thing for years, how is this different?

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

You can physically secure a border all you want, but if policy exists that allow illegals to circumvent the law such as 'parole in place' then you only incentivize more illegal immigration.

It wont.
Disincentivizing illegal immigration is not through deportations.
People will just flee to other countries or states. (Wait for some of them to end up in Canada).
It is through border security to avoid illegal immigration.
And fixing the legal immigration system so people are encouraged to not overstay visas, which is a major source of illegal immigration.

 

[JuanGoodman]

You've been saying the same thing for years, how is this different?

Trump is the president again

 

[Bucktee]

So generally illegal immigrants commit less crime than citizens.
Native born Americans, followed by illegal immigrants, followed by legal immigrants - order of criminality.
However a substantial number of Americans think immigration and crime are related.

Irrelevant. If there were no illegal immigrants, they'd commit ZERO crime.

So the longer they stay, the less likely they are to commit crime.
If it does happen, then it should be considered along humanitarian grounds to see if they have roots, families etc.,

If an illegal commits murder, they should be deported, regardless of time spent living illegally in the country.

Your argument is essentially... 'the longer you've been breaking the law, the better the chances of you staying.'

Do you see the incentive this creates?

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

Irrelevant. If there were no illegal immigrants, they'd commit ZERO crime.

If an illegal commits murder, they should be deported, regardless of time spent living illegally in the country.

Your argument is essentially... 'the longer you've been breaking the law, the better the chances of you staying.'

Do you see the incentive this creates?

And if there were no people at all in the country then there would be 0 crime.
That does not work for an argument.
People and crime go together regardless of their status. We have to accept this.
The longer they stay the less likely they are to commit crime.
The lack of a piece of paper authorizing their presence is not such a big deal that you should engage in human rights abuses via mass deportations.
You are advocating for this despite not being affected by illegal immigrants.
This is the problem with this policy.
It drums up hatred when there is no need for it and ends up actually materializing into human rights abuses.

 

[JohnLarue]

But you are! Deporting people who pays taxes and made their life here withoutbeing criminal,

if you enter the country illegally you are a criminal
illegal should be self explanatory

boarders need to be secure
beside you are not treating those that legally apply equally by permitting illegal entry
Equal is not just equal when it is convenient

women are being bullied online with "your body, my choice" litteraly everywhere,

I have looked at both sides of this and .... its an unresolvable quagmire
I will not wade into this unresolvable quagmire

trans and lgbtq are scared to walk in the street so yes, absolutely can we leave the hate aside?!

I do not hate trans or lgbtq,
Not my concern or business who bangs who

There are two biological sexes
i actually feel empathy for these that are confused about this as that would be a tough life to live
But they do not deserve special treatment

i do believe parents have a right and obligation to protect their children

I also will not have my speech compelled
If someone requests I address them in a specific not-traditional manner (he/she) I may / may not decide to comply with their request, largely dependant on how that request was delivered ie a polite ask vs, an insulting demand.
Respect is earned, not compelled or demanded

Seeing tampons in the men's room just makes me shake my head and it confirms the motivation for this (whatever that maybe) has gone off the rails as common sense has been ignored.

 

[Bucktee]

And if there were no people at all in the country then there would be 0 crime.
That does not work for an argument.

This isn't a rebuttal. It makes no sense. There is no country if there are no people.

People and crime go together regardless of their status. We have to accept this.
The longer they stay the less likely they are to commit crime.

But we don't have to accept illegal immigrants. If they cannot stay, they cannot commit crime whether they're here for a day or decades.

The lack of a piece of paper authorizing their presence is not such a big deal that you should engage in human rights abuses via mass deportations.

Nobody has a right to citizenship in another country by illegally crossing its border.

This is not a human rights issue. It's an issue of national sovereignty, security, and the rights, freedoms, and protections of citizens.

You are advocating for this despite not being affected by illegal immigrants.
This is the problem with this policy.
It drums up hatred when there is no need for it and ends up actually materializing into human rights abuses.

The crime, the devaluing of wages, and the culture of illegal immigrants impact everyone.

The cow farmer doesn't think that cow manure is affecting anyone and he doesn't even smell it. But everyone else far enough from his farm can smell the cow shit on him when he comes to visit.

You're the farmer. You're impacted without knowing it.

 

[Bucktee]

if you enter the country illegally you are a criminal
illegal should be self explanatory

boarders need to be secure
beside you are not treating those that legally apply equally by permitting illegal entry
Equal is not just equal when it is convenient

Exactly.

Illegals are a privileged minority. They break the law and are rewarded for it while everyone else has to stand in line.

We are advocating that they be treated equally like everyone else that wants citizenship.

But when one is privileged, equality feels like oppression.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

This isn't a rebuttal. It makes no sense. There is no country if there are no people.



But we don't have to accept illegal immigrants. If they cannot stay, they cannot commit crime whether they're here for a day or decades.



Nobody has a right to citizenship in another country by illegally crossing its border.

This is not a human rights issue. It's an issue of national sovereignty, security, and the rights, freedoms, and protections of citizens.



The crime, the devaluing of wages, and the culture of illegal immigrants impact everyone.

The cow farmer doesn't think that cow manure is affecting anyone and he doesn't even smell it. But everyone else far enough from his farm can smell the cow shit on him when he comes to visit.

You're the farmer. You're impacted without knowing it.

Which is why you strengthen border security and fix the immigration system to reduce illegal immigration.
And deport anyone in the future.
But with the already present 11M, you deport the criminal ones and give a path to citizenship for the rest.
It is the most practical solution that benefits the state while avoiding a human rights crisis.
Illegal immigrants do jobs that Americans wont do or do not want to do.
So devaluing of wages is not an issue.

 

[roddermac]

Which is why you strengthen border security and fix the immigration system to reduce illegal immigration.
And deport anyone in the future.
But with the already present 11M, you deport the criminal ones and give a path to citizenship for the rest.
It is the most practical solution that benefits the state while avoiding a human rights crisis.
Illegal immigrants do jobs that Americans wont do or do not want to do.
So devaluing of wages is not an issue.

They tried this and were called racists for it. That was the real issue. Then Biden opened everything up.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

They tried this and were called racists for it. That was the real issue. Then Biden opened everything up.

Biden was an idiot.
But it is not racist to strengthen your borders while being humane.

 

[JohnLarue]

And if there were no people at all in the country then there would be 0 crime.
That does not work for an argument.

once again your logic is very flawed

if there were no people at all in the country, it would not be a country, it would be an uninhabited chunk of land

People and crime go together regardless of their status. We have to accept this.
The longer they stay the less likely they are to commit crime.

Actual no
They committed a crime by entering the country illegally
And they are committing a crime every day they remain in the ILLGALLY enter country

Illegal should be self explanatory

You loonies really get confused about well defined words

The lack of a piece of paper authorizing their presence is not such a big deal that you should engage in human rights abuses via mass deportations.

Detaining a criminal (ie illegal) and returning them to the scene of the crime (the boarder) and is not a human rights abuse
They did not have the right to enter the country
If you enter my home without permission, you are going to leave one way or another

You are advocating for this despite not being affected by illegal immigrants.

We want to treat all applicants for immigration equally, the only way to do that is to accept legally processed applicants and only legally processed applicants
All others are criminals

You loonies shout scream , jump up and down about equality and then hypocritically expect criminals to be treated as special, while ignoring the long list of legal applicants

Equal should be self explanatory.
it is bewildering you get confused by a word you use so often

It drums up hatred when there is no need for it and ends up actually materializing into human rights abuses.

You whine that deporting criminals are human rights abuses
While at same time declare China a success story despite knowing they murdered 20 to 50 million (or more) of their own people
Your logic is a clown show

 

[kittykellykat]

Are you serious?

Today is a very sad day for women's, lgbtq's AND sex workers rights. It's not our battle but it is. This will also affect ours. If a guy like Pollievre pass, there will be a humongous shitshow around here (I don't like the Liberal either, if that matters). What is going on is really, really bad.

Also the Trumpist on a review board that copulate with sex workers but celebrate this kind of victory sound so weird to me. Make it make sense!

What rights are you worried sex workers will lose in Canada under a conservative government exactly? Or as a woman, for that matter? Real question.

 

[Josephine]

What rights are you worried sex workers will lose in Canada under a conservative government exactly?

Conservative = right. Right do not like prostitute. They don't like you. From there anything is possible.

Conservatives introduce tough new rules on prostitution

Sweeping federal legislation bans advertising by sex workers, doesn't allow buying or selling anywhere near minors

www.theglobeandmail.com

Per example:


That was just talk then boom

Bill c36 is a conservative bill

https://macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/governments-have-failed-canadas-sex-workers-and-theyre-running-out-of-patience/

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

You whine that deporting criminals are human rights abuses
While at same time declare China a success story despite knowing they murdered 20 to 50 million (or more) of their own people
Your logic is a clown show

You whine that China is not a success story because of their human rights abuses despite being the 2nd largest economy and soon to be the largest economy in the world.
While at the same time supporting human rights abuses by deporting millions of non-criminals because they did not have a piece of paper.
Your logic is a clown show and your posts are unreadable.

 

[roddermac]

Biden was an idiot.
But it is not racist to strengthen your borders while being humane.

It isn't but the media says it is.