The Great Debate

Who won the great debate?

  • Harris

    Votes: 77 78.6%
  • Trump

    Votes: 9 9.2%
  • Both were bad with no winner

    Votes: 10 10.2%
  • Both were good with no winner

    Votes: 2 2.0%

  • Total voters
    98

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
101,433
28,505
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here i agree with you. Like i wrote the problem is i do not believe on PP and conservator fixing anything. We need to let much fewer immigrants but mostly start building government based housing for the masses. Without a roof for all anything else will go to shit. Some will turn to violence, drug, fall into mental problems... The basic need of eating and having a roof must be available for all.
The libs did do a massive cutback on temporary foreign workers and international students. Universities say international students are down 45% this year.
Timmies and other corporations have been abusing the new rules for workers as well.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
101,433
28,505
113
I'm ok with gov't providing some housing but the private developers should be driving the construction of new dwellings. Unfortunately the environment for that in Canada is less than optimal.
The only housing built lately in Ontario has been micro condos that investors were favouring until interest rates went up.
Housing starts are way down under DoFo even with all the gifts he's been giving them.

DoFo favoured developers who favour luxury housing for profit over starter homes, rentals and family affordable condos and townhouses.
 
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Big Rig

Well-known member
May 6, 2009
2,186
332
83
Now that I've listened to more of it, it is clear she was very good at not answering questions when she didn't want to and going with these sort of "technically correct but misleading" or just "really needs more context" kind of answers.
Those are the kind that are exceedingly hard to fact check by a moderator without it turning into an argument about interpretation or emphasis.
I don't mind those kinds of answers so much (I don't love them, but a format like this is always going to have those) but I do think the moderators should have been better with follow up questions when she skated away from ever actually answering.
That is why she has not done interviews as she was wisely preparing scripted answers

When Harris debated before 2020 she was not nearly as good

I hate that tatic but it is all part of politics, clearly Trump should of done the same but I suspect he surrounded himself with ass kissers and conspiracy theorists who told him cat eating immigrants was a good one.

Even better than windmills cause cancer .

Or climate change is a Chinese hoax

Or the bullet was deflected by divine intervention (not his exact words)

Or Harris is a Marist commie

Or the white house attackers were infiltrated by the left (he stopped saying that one)

Or all illegals are rapists and drug dealers

Or covid is no worse than the flu (of course he denies saying it)

Or the world respected his strenght when he was in office
 
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Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
37,050
74,917
113
As far as the Twitterati claiming there is an ABC whistleblower coming forward to declare Kamala being fed the questions, I'll just wait for this whistleblower to surface.
The only reasonable response.

Regardless, the questions aren't really all that surprising. The candidates probably have heard them all several times in their debate prep.
Not knowing the basic outlines of questions would be ridiculous.
A journalist might sometimes come at you in an unexpected direction, but one of the whole points of debate prep is to practice the questions you pretty much know you're going to get.
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
37,050
74,917
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That is why she has not done interviews as she was wisely preparing scripted answers
I don't think we can assume that.
Taking over and launching a campaign on short notice is a lot of work and I don't think she's been wrong that communicating directly through social media and speeches was better for getting her message out than indulging the white house press.

Did that necessary launch work include getting her scripted answers ready for obvious legacy media questions?
It's possible.
But I don't think we can simply say it was just that.

When Harris debated before 2020 she was not nearly as good
She was solid against Pence in 2020.
The Democratic primary debates were different with the multi-person format.

That said, I do think she was better here - this was an impressive performance.
But it was also a performance tailored to fuck up Trump.
I don't know if the strategy of "dangle some bait and let the other guy implode because he can't resist taking it" is one that she ever had before so we don't know if she was capable of it in 2020.
 

WyattEarp

Well-known member
May 17, 2017
8,629
2,903
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I hate that tatic but it is all part of politics, clearly Trump should of done the same but I suspect he surrounded himself with ass kissers and conspiracy theorists who told him cat eating immigrants was a good one.
It's bad politics to delve into something like this without clear, totally substantiated evidence. It's an unnecessary distraction during an election cycle.

All you have to do is note the chaos in Springfield, OH. People there don't seem to be too happy. It might very well be an example of a small City and Mayor that took the bait of federal money to accept refugees.
 

WyattEarp

Well-known member
May 17, 2017
8,629
2,903
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I don't know if the strategy of "dangle some bait and let the other guy implode because he can't resist taking it" is one that she ever had before so we don't know if she was capable of it in 2020.
I want to say that this is because he is a 78 year old man. However, I think this is always who he was and he can't let inconsequential criticism roll off his back.

He lost, but I found he was energetic, at times his rebuttals were well constructed and his closing statement was strong. (So was Kamala's.)
 

Big Rig

Well-known member
May 6, 2009
2,186
332
83
I didn't realize that preparing is cheating.

"Failure to prepare is preparing for failure." That was validated last night.

Even her walking over and forcing Trump into a handshake was thought out

Her laughing at Trump during split screen and her bemused look was totally rehearsed

Now that I think of it, were her ear rings thought out? She gave the Trump the excuse to say they were ear plugs telling her the answer and that may be what they wanted.
Give Trump more excuses to say stupid stuff as they realize the public are sick of it
 
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Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
37,050
74,917
113
I want to say that this is because he is a 78 year old man. However, I think this is always who he was and he can't let inconsequential criticism roll off his back.
He has always been this way a bit.
But I think he did have more self control before.

Another aspect of this might be that he's been in political debates for 9 years now.
There is a lot of game film, as it were.

That he was baitable has become obvious and I also think people have learned more and more what bait he can't resist.
So his self-control goes down and the lures get shinier until you get what happened on Tuesday.
 
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WyattEarp

Well-known member
May 17, 2017
8,629
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That he was baitable has become obvious and I also think people have learned more and more what bait he can't resist. So his self-control goes down and the lures get shinier until you get what happened on Tuesday.
Catnip
 
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WyattEarp

Well-known member
May 17, 2017
8,629
2,903
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Her laughing at Trump during split screen and her bemused look was totally rehearsed.
The guy has two ex-wives. He should be used to this.
 
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jalimon

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2016
8,148
8,694
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I've been having that conversation with more and more friends lately.
Nobody trusts any sources anymore, and that's messed up.
Steve Jobs saw it early in the early 2000. He wanted to cut deal with media as he saw the proliferation of blogs. And how unreliable and false majority were.

It did not work. Facebook took over. Twitter, google. Then many others.

Look at all AI generated post made falsely about Taylor Swift Trumpers… This is scary as no truth will exist anymore.

We are entering an era we’re stupidity will rule and whoever talks loudest will win.
 

WyattEarp

Well-known member
May 17, 2017
8,629
2,903
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There is no context when you say that she seemed rehearsed, as if that was something bad.
I think you have me confused with another poster. 🤷‍♂️
 

Big Rig

Well-known member
May 6, 2009
2,186
332
83
I don't think we can assume that.
Taking over and launching a campaign on short notice is a lot of work and I don't think she's been wrong that communicating directly through social media and speeches was better for getting her message out than indulging the white house press.

Did that necessary launch work include getting her scripted answers ready for obvious legacy media questions?
It's possible.
But I don't think we can simply say it was just that.



She was solid against Pence in 2020.
The Democratic primary debates were different with the multi-person format.

That said, I do think she was better here - this was an impressive performance.
But it was also a performance tailored to fuck up Trump.
I don't know if the strategy of "dangle some bait and let the other guy implode because he can't resist taking it" is one that she ever had before so we don't know if she was capable of it in 2020.
Always enjoy my discussions with you , Sir Valcazar

As a prosecuter I am sure she was well rehearsed in the tactic of baiting defendants
which is why I thought she was going to demolish him

Because she was a prosecuter who had dealt with people like Trump, as she has told America on several times, her debate tactics were thought out more by her then her team IMHO

She showed America she is a leader and Trump is a angry old man full of lies

A wiser Trump would have listened to better advisors and went on the offensive

Trump lost debate more than Harris won it

A more subtle thought , Trump talks about wild stuff like cat eaters so that is what is discussed by the press instead of his incompetence as President.

Just a thought
 
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Leimonis

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2020
10,347
10,369
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As a prosecuter I am sure she was well rehearsed in the tactic of baiting defendants
which is why I thought she was going to demolish him
+1, a felon is usually not a match for a prosecutor
 
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