What a horrible idea to promote!
No wonder you like the Green party with such a shit view of democracy.
Project 2025
- Thread starter basketcase
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No wonder you like the Green party with such a shit view of democracy.
Wait, so you mean its democratic to choose to vote for the Greens?
I thought you said it would kill democracy by wasting a vote.
What do you do about this?
Voting stupidly and wasting a vote and threatening democracy IS terrible.
But what I was objecting to was your vile and terrible idea " A true democracy only needs two establishment choices. "
Who would even think such a thing?
That's a perverse outcome of a badly designed system.
Not an ideal.
(And by the way, voting stupidly for dumb, venal reasons because you don't understand the system is absolutely something you have the right to do in a democracy. It's just bad.)
Note it, because polls are useful information.
I mean, yes, it's really good news for the Democrats.
They've tripled their vote count in that population since the last survey in May, and RFK and Cornel West have both cratered.
The protest vote is now concentrated in Jill Stein, and since she's a deeply unserious person, hopefully that will dry up as she makes an ass of herself.
Also, as you are no doubt aware, the ADC itself is noting that "Although Dr. Jill Stein is still the leading candidate among community members, her support is much softer in battleground states.", which is a good sign that most people who are voting protest are at least smart enough to be doing it in "safe" states and understand the system well enough to not vote stupidly in the battleground states, where they can produce a much worse effect (electing Trump).
So really, across the board good news for Democrats (and people who believe in democracy in the US), but still lots of work to do.
Can't be complacent.
WTF?
After months of declaring its wasting your vote to vote for a third party candidate and how its bad for democracy to do so, now you say you need third parties? Just don't vote for them?
New voter registrations are way up and largely with the youth.
But Harris needs to voice a less AIPAC centred view if she doesn't want to lose them in the next few months.
We've discussed this.
You seem incapable of learning how voting systems work - or just completely unwilling to try.
I accept that. It is what it is.
But I strongly disagree with your statement " A true democracy only needs two establishment choices. '
That's a terrible idea about democracy.
I get that you probably think you are saying that's my position, but that just shows how deeply confused by all this you appear to be.
Just note that even the people who do strongly believe that pre-voting coalitions are better than post-voting coalitions would probably disagree with your statement.
I am sure you believe this.
That was a sarcastic comment on your endless posts on how voting for a third party is wasting your vote and bad for democracy. So I took it the next step and sarcastically said you only wanted two parties.
Your new position is that you need third parties and as long as you don't vote for them they are good.
Cmon. The Nazis never got more than 37% of the vote across 5 parties. Thus voting on the minor parties allowed them to take charge. So im sure folks felt all smug whilst the nazis banned all other political parties and systematically wiped out the opposition and one's neighbours, and ultimately these protest voters.
The liberals did that over Nader and sat in their corner and pouted complaining no difference between Bush and Gore. Then pouted as the US squandered itself invading Iraq. So folks can do this all over again and feel all superior and vote for a Putin backed Jill Stein whilst Trump takes power, bans and banishes your fellow Muslims, and gives Israel carte Blanche to wipe out Gaza.
The liberals did that over Nader and sat in their corner and pouted complaining no difference between Bush and Gore. Then pouted as the US squandered itself invading Iraq. So folks can do this all over again and feel all superior and vote for a Putin backed Jill Stein whilst Trump takes power, bans and banishes your fellow Muslims, and gives Israel carte Blanche to wipe out Gaza.
How about trying to remind Arab Americans what trump thinks of them and the Hamas-Israeli war?
They know, just like they know Genocide Joe has single handedly enabled Israel's genocide to continue for 10 months.
Now they are just waiting for Harris to make her views clearer.
Yet you and they are okay with Trump winning despite his plan to tell Israel to take care of business quickly.
Fixed your post as you continue to get my views wrong.
Its almost like you're doing intentionally, instead of because you're just stupid.
Ziklag appears to be behind some of Project 2025 and the Heritage Foundation.
Religious extremists are so fucked up.
Inside Ziklag, the Secret Organization of Wealthy Christians Trying to Sway the Election and Change the Country
The little-known charity is backed by famous conservative donors, including the families behind Hobby Lobby and Uline. It’s spending millions to make a big political push for this election — but it may be violating the law.
www.propublica.org
In the current situation, it is.
That's a simple fact.
Do you not even understand the things you write?
That's a little more complicated though, because it's a different system with proportional representation.
That's the thing, it all depends on the system as it is constructed.
The US system, in particular, is set up in a way where coalitions are formed before the election to make parties, rather than a number of parties forming coalitions after the election.
Thus minor party voting in the US system is particularly fraught.
Minor party voting in a PR system (or other set ups) is a different thing than it is in the US.
Also, voting minor party in a legislature is different than for President.
As I said earlier, if the US Green party wanted to be a real party, it could.
It just has no interest in doing that.
Even the Libertarians take it more seriously and they are also a joke.
The fact that the third party vote produces effects counter to what the people voting third party claim to want is one of the reasons why whenever that vote share goes up, it falls back down in the next election. (Because people wise up.)
It's also why the funding for things like the Green party is mostly from the GOP as a way to try and increase their chances against the Democrats.
(The Democrats don't do nearly as much ratfucking this way, even though pushing the Libertarians to try and split the vote would be good tactically.)
Is that supposed to be a rebuttal?
You argued:
1) that third parties are necessary for democracy
2) that voting for a third party is bad for democracy or a waste of a vote
You have to understand the ethical approach here.
If Person A does something bad, then you cannot support Person A.
Person B can come along and say "Person A didn't go far enough, we must do more of the bad thing" and the only way to prevent them having the opportunity is to support person A, but it is an ironclad law of morality (to those who believe this way) that you cannot support Person A. Therefore a person of moral character must hope other people stop Person B.
It's the classic categorical imperative approach.
Lying is always wrong.
Therefore lying to Nazis about where the Jews are hiding is also wrong, and you must reveal where the Nazis can find the people they want to kill if asked.
You cannot be blamed morally for the consequences of this, because lying is always wrong.
Wrong dilemna.
If person A is in the act of aiding genocide you say you cannot support them.
If person B talks about backing genocide but hasn't yet aided genocide you don't support them either.
Then you could vote for person C, who doesn't support genocide at all
Under this situation, committing a crime is worse than saying you might or even would commit a crime.
That's much simpler and clearer, requires less academic attempts at rationalizations, such as trying to declare that lying to nazis is wrong.
There are scales of bad in criminal acts.
Genocide tops every other crime.
Lying or perjury is way down near the bottom.
Under your moral system all criminal acts are equal, so it is just as wrong to lie to a nazi as it is to commit genocide.
That would fail you in all first year courses, wouldn't it?
Yes, of course.
Heritage had a project 2017 (I don't remember if it was called that) and probably a plan for 2021 (but maybe not since they were already in the system then).
It isn't like Heritage is going to give up on their plans if their candidate loses, they work long term and always have.
Look.
If you aren't even going to pretend to pay attention, I'm not going to do extra work.
I's clear you aren't ever going to get this.
I do hope one day you bother to look into voting systems and the extreme difficulty in designing them.
