Another police shooting - how do they justify this one?

Jenesis

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K Douglas

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The woman clearly was acting bizarrely perhaps suffering from a mental episode. There were 2 officers there for 30 minutes before this escalated. Still from what I can see this was not a justified shooting as she wasn't an imminent threat. A pot of boiling water is not a lethal weapon.
 

The Oracle

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From what can be seen here, there is no justification for this shoot.

There's going to be large payout to this woman's family.
 

Jenesis

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The woman clearly was acting bizarrely perhaps suffering from a mental episode. There were 2 officers there for 30 minutes before this escalated. Still from what I can see this was not a justified shooting as she wasn't an imminent threat. A pot of boiling water is not a lethal weapon.
When you call the police, do they ask you for your ID before even looking for the prep you called them there for?
 

Nickelodeon

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I find this post in poor taste after last nights "gunfight" at Midland and Ellesmere where a young man and woman were killed, with multiple guns and bullet casings found at the scene. This post deals with the US situation, not a Canadian one.

The amount of danger that our neighborhoods are in as a result of guns and gangs is ridiculous. And to focus on a US police shooting today when we should be focused on what makes Toronto neighborhoods safer, including the role of police, is inappropriate.

Who knows what police are facing when they go into a situation when they are facing the type of harm and death that we're now seeing on the streets of Toronto.
 
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Nickelodeon

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BTW: Feel free to keep posting about police shootings. Just keep them in context. I have little interest in policy shootings in the US, Kenya, France, Israel and anywhere else outside of Canada. But when you title your post "Another police shooting - how do they justify this one, it paints all police forces with the same brush.

Some context please, so I know not to open the post thinking it's relevant to Toronto.
 
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Knuckle Ball

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What we know about the deputy charged with killing Sonya Massey in her home after she called 911 for help
Emma Tucker
CNN — none
The family of Sonya Massey is calling for a probe into the hiring of a sheriff’s deputy charged with fatally shooting the 36-year-old Black woman in her Illinois home this month, citing their concerns over records showing he’d worked at six law enforcement agencies in four years and was charged with driving under the influence twice.

Sean Grayson, the 30-year-old Sangamon County sheriff’s deputy who has since been fired from the agency, was indicted by a grand jury last week on three counts of first-degree murder and one count each of aggravated battery with a firearm and official misconduct in connection with the July 6 shooting at Massey’s home near Springfield.

Sonya Massey was shot and killed by a responding officer after she called 911 because she thought there was an intruder in her home, according to officials.

He has entered a not guilty plea and was denied pretrial release, according to court records. The state’s training and standards board records show Grayson’s law enforcement certification has been suspended.

CNN has sought comment from Grayson’s attorney.

Massey is one of a number of Black women who have been killed by police in their own homes in recent years, including Breonna Taylor and Atatiana Jefferson.

In a news conference Monday afternoon, civil rights attorney Ben Crump, who represents Massey’s family, connected her death to other cases of police violence against Black people across the US.

Here’s what we know about the former sheriff’s deputy charged with murder in Massey’s death:

Records: Deputy worked at 6 agencies in 4 years, after being charged twice with DUI
Grayson had worked at six law enforcement agencies in Illinois since 2020, according to the Illinois Law Enforcement Training and Standards Board.

He began working part-time with Pawnee police in August 2020, then moved to the Kincaid and Virden police departments, before taking up full-time work with Auburn police, the Logan County Sheriff’s Office and – in May 2023 – Sangamon County.

Grayson’s resignation letter from the Auburn Police Department, reviewed by CNN, did not suggest he left due to problems or disciplinary issues. In it, he wrote: “I have had nothing but a positive experience working as an officer. Unfortunately, I have chosen to move on to Logan County Sheriff’s Office.”

Grayson listed his reason for leaving both the Virden and Pawnee police departments as “wanting to be a full time” officer, and for the Kincaid Police Department as “my hours were cut,” according to his Auburn Police Department employment application, also reviewed by CNN.

CNN has reached out to the other law enforcement agencies for more information.

Court records indicate Grayson was charged with two DUI misdemeanor offenses in Illinois’ Macoupin County – one in 2015 and the other in 2016.

The first incident occurred in August 2015, when Grayson’s vehicle was impounded after he was charged with driving under the influence. He pleaded guilty to the charge and paid more than $1,320 in fines, according to court records. Another charge, accusing him of driving under the influence with a blood alcohol concentration of 0.08%, was dismissed.

The following year in July, Grayson was charged again with DUI, pleaded guilty and paid more than $2,400 in fines, court records show.

Grayson’s job application to the Auburn Police Department acknowledges he had previously been arrested and charged with a DUI.

A petition calling for an investigation into why Sangamon County hired Grayson was circulated at a march and barbecue in Springfield on Monday night, CNN affiliate WICS reported.

Massey’s family and their lawyers called for the county to investigate the decision to hire him, voicing concerns about his arrest record and his working for six departments in four years, according to WICS.

‘I’ll f**king shoot you in the f**king face,’ deputy says before Massey is shot
The Illinois State Police on Monday released 36-minutes of video that includes body-camera footage from each of the two Sangamon County sheriff’s deputies who responded to Massey’s house early on July 6. Massey had called 911 to report a possible “prowler” at her home in Springfield, according to a court document filed by prosecutors.

The body-camera footage shows Grayson and another deputy speaking calmly with Massey in her home – at which point she goes to the stove to turn off a pot of boiling water. She then picks up the pot and the other deputy steps back, “away from your hot steaming water,” he says.

“I rebuke you in the name of Jesus,” she says in response.

“Huh?” the deputy says.

“I rebuke you in the name of Jesus,” she repeats.

“You better f**king not or I swear to God I’ll f**king shoot you in the f**king face,” Grayson says.

He then draws his firearm and points it at her, and she ducks and says, “I’m sorry” while lifting the pot, the video shows.

“Drop the f**king pot!” both deputies yell.

Three shots are heard. After a few seconds of silence, one deputy says, “shots fired” and calls for emergency medical services.

“Dude, I’m not taking f**king boiling water to the f**king head. And look, it came right to our feet, too,” Grayson says.

Minutes after the shooting, Grayson speaks to another law enforcement figure. “She had boiling water and came at me with boiling water,” he says in the video. “She said she was going to rebuke me in the name of Jesus and came at (me) with boiling water.”

While inside her home, Grayson drew his gun and shot at Massey three times, striking her once in the face, according to county prosecutors.

Grayson did not activate his body camera until after he fatally shot Massey, according to charging documents. The other deputy had activated his body camera when he first arrived at the scene, the documents state.

In the body-camera footage, Grayson tells his partner that Massey would not need medical help immediately after the shooting.

The other deputy says he’s going to get a medical kit to help, but Grayson responds, “Nah, she’s done. You can go get it but that’s a headshot.”

Grayson later goes to his vehicle to get his own medical supplies. When he gets back to the house, he asks if there’s anything he can do, but is told no.

“All right, I’m not even gonna waste my med stuff then,” Grayson says.

Next, Grayson leaves the house and speaks to a group of law enforcement officers outside. “Yeah, I’m good, this f**king b*tch is crazy,” he says, according to the footage.

Officials deem deputy’s actions an ‘unjustified use of deadly force’
Since the shooting, local and state officials have criticized the deputy’s actions as an unjustified use of deadly force.

A review of the Illinois State Police investigation into the shooting “does not support a finding that … Grayson was justified in his use of deadly force,” the state’s attorney for Sangamon County, John Milhiser, said in a July 17 news release.

In a court document filed by the state last week, prosecutors said a “use-of-force” expert had reviewed the body-camera footage and concluded the use of deadly force was not justified.

“(The expert) likened the scenario to an officer intentionally and unnecessarily putting himself in front of a moving vehicle and then justifying use of force because of fear of being struck,” the prosecutors wrote.

The sheriff’s office said it has fired Grayson. “It is clear that the deputy did not act as trained or in accordance with our standards,” the office said.

In a court document filed by the state last week, prosecutors noted Grayson could have drawn a Taser located on his duty vest.

“He … has shown a willingness to use lethal force, despite the availability of non-deadly alternatives, when there is little to no threat to his bodily safety,” prosecutors wrote.

In April 2021, Grayson was awarded a certificate for successfully completing a training course on how to use a Taser, according to documents obtained by CNN from the Auburn Police Department, his previous employer. He was also successfully trained on how to use pepper spray, the documents show.

Massey’s father, James Wilburn, said during a news conference Monday he initially received conflicting information from law enforcement.

“I was under the impression that a prowler had broken in and killed my baby. Never did they say that it was a deputy-involved shooting until my brother read it on the internet,” Wilburn said.

At the news conference, Crump called her killing “senseless on every level.”

Crump referenced what Grayson said – “I’ll f**king shoot you in the f**king face” – before Massey was shot.

“Black women don’t get the consideration and the respect in America,” Crump said.

CNN’s Lucy Kafanov, Bill Kirkos, Eric Levenson, Jillian Sykes, Brad Parks and Andy Rose contributed to this report.




Hmmmmm…Grayson (age 30) has a couple of DUI’s from 8 years ago…but he was honest about it on his application and they hired him anyway.

He’s also worked at 6 police forces in 4 years…but the moves sound like a young cop moving from part time to full time work…no history of disciplinary problems or misconduct showing up thus far. I dunno????
 
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kherg007

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Disclaimer: I don't know deets thus not casting judgment on this case although tbh looks bad for the cop.

However, I also think people have to school themselves on a cop's POV. They get a call, maybe someone says an armed intruder, and yet people come jumping out of the dark or expecting the cop to know its not them or they're not the bad guy or that they are not armed. They may run out to the cop in the dark with a phone waving it around and the cop is already on high alert.

Had the ugly duty of explaining traffic stops to my biracial kids and how to be in such a way so as to minimize fear in the cops.
Same with a call for them to come urgently. I'd describe myself, what I'm wearing, where I'll be, and make sure they can see my hands, etc etc. You never know when you get a hair trigger guy. I know, I know, we need to get cops the best training and we need to do the best screening and then pay them accordingly. But until then, let's help each other out.
 

Jenesis

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I find this post in poor taste after last nights "gunfight" at Midland and Ellesmere where a young man and woman were killed, with multiple guns and bullet casings found at the scene. This post deals with the US situation, not a Canadian one.

The amount of danger that our neighborhoods are in as a result of guns and gangs is ridiculous. And to focus on a US police shooting today when we should be focused on what makes Toronto neighborhoods safer, including the role of police, is inappropriate.

Who knows what police are facing when they go into a situation when they are facing the type of harm and death that we're now seeing on the streets of Toronto.
BTW: Feel free to keep posting about police shootings. Just keep them in context. I have little interest in policy shootings in the US, Kenya, France, Israel and anywhere else outside of Canada. But when you title your post "Another police shooting - how do they justify this one, it paints all police forces with the same brush.

Some context please, so I know not to open the post thinking it's relevant to Toronto.
You are offended that I posted a thread about police shootings in the US and didn’t post about a shooting that happened in Toronto last night and that I didn’t title the thread the way you want?????

Well too fucking bad bucko. Don’t like it - don’t contribute to it by bumping it with your posts. Don’t like things not being posted about - post them yourself. I will post how I want and what I am interested in. This isn’t about you little one. Move along now.
 

Jenesis

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Disclaimer: I don't know deets thus not casting judgment on this case although tbh looks bad for the cop.

However, I also think people have to school themselves on a cop's POV. They get a call, maybe someone says an armed intruder, and yet people come jumping out of the dark or expecting the cop to know its not them or they're not the bad guy or that they are not armed. They may run out to the cop in the dark with a phone waving it around and the cop is already on high alert.

Had the ugly duty of explaining traffic stops to my biracial kids and how to be in such a way so as to minimize fear in the cops.
Same with a call for them to come urgently. I'd describe myself, what I'm wearing, where I'll be, and make sure they can see my hands, etc etc. You never know when you get a hair trigger guy. I know, I know, we need to get cops the best training and we need to do the best screening and then pay them accordingly. But until then, let's help each other out.
Everything you said has absolutely nothing to do with this case. She was shot in her own home. The police asked her for ID even though she called them for assistance with a someone lurking outside her place. They were in her home for like a half hour and didn’t even look for the person outside. They just focused on her.
 

kherg007

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Everything you said has absolutely nothing to do with this case. She was shot in her own home. The police asked her for ID even though she called them for assistance with a someone lurking outside her place. They were in her home for like a half hour and didn’t even look for the person outside. They just focused on her.
True. I was talking generic.i was not referring to this case. In fact I said it looked bad for the cop.

My post was about in general we need more schooling on interacting in such situations, along the lines of educating folks on traffic stops.
 

Jenesis

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True. I was talking generic.i was not referring to this case. In fact I said it looked bad for the cop.

My post was about in general we need more schooling on interacting in such situations, along the lines of educating folks on traffic stops.
I think the onus is on police. Sorry but I don’t think we should be having to teach citizens on how to interact with police so you don’t get innocently killed.

In this case, she was listening to police. All she said was “I rebuke you in the name of Jesus” or something like that and buddy shot her.

Police need the education and the training and more of it before I will agree that the educational shift should go to regular citizens.
 

kherg007

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I think the onus is on police. Sorry but I don’t think we should be having to teach citizens on how to interact with police so you don’t get innocently killed.

In this case, she was listening to police. All she said was “I rebuke you in the name of Jesus” or something like that and buddy shot her.

Police need the education and the training and more of it before I will agree that the educational shift should go to regular citizens.
If you had biracial kids you would not be saying that.
You're derelict in your parenting if you don't teach your kids behaviors that can protect them. Better that then suing the cop after the funeral for your child.
In school shooting protocols we now educate kids how to behave so as to not get confused with the perp. It's common sense. Cops now know time is of the essence and the cop does not know who is who so showing hands etc are some tactics to reduce mistakes. Every citizen should know this.
 
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Jenesis

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If you had biracial kids you would not be saying that.
I didn’t say NOT to teach them. I said you shouldn’t have to. Please read what I actually wrote.

Are you honestly going to tell me that in a proper world, citizens are the ones that require education and training on how to deal with the police????? No. It is the police that should be held to the higher standard and should be properly educated and trained on how to deal with the people.
 
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