Colonialism In The Middle East

[Kautilya]

Exactly how and why did Pakistan come into being? Do tell. If Israel is an ethnostate, so is Pakistan.

Pakistan was never established as an Islamic state (with an official state religion). It was established as a socialist state for Muslims because Jinnah did not want Muslims to be marginalized in a post independence India, with a Hindu majority. It was only in 1973 (26 years after independence), that Pakistan's 1973 constitution, declared it an Islamic republic.

Now to the question of ethnicity - Israelis consider Jews to be an ethnic group (religion based definition of ethnicity) with the identity of the state being based on Judaism, with the state trying to manage demographics to be predominantly Jewish. Citizenship is also defined based on religion, where someone Jewish has an automatic right to move to Israel, but others do not.

But Pakistanis do not. Pakistanis identify as Punjabis, Pashtuns, Balochs etc and these individual ethnicities could be of any religion. Religious identity and ethnic identity are separate in the case of Pakistan. Or for that matter national identity. Pakistan also does not try to forcefully manage demographics like Israel does or create citizenship laws that are based on religion.

So Pakistan is not an ethnostate. Israel is.

 

[southpaw]

Were Pakistan created by foreign settler colonialists?

Is that the only way to create an ethnostate? The ethnic cleansers must come from outside?

I didn't claim they were colonizers. I claimed they were ethnostates.

 

[Frankfooter]

Is that the only way to create an ethnostate? The ethnic cleansers must come from outside?

I didn't claim they were colonizers. I claimed they were ethnostates.

It is when the population was originally pretty diverse.

 

[southpaw]

Pakistan's 1973 constitution, declared it an Islamic republic.

Pakistan also does not try to forcefully manage demographics like Israel does.

No, it's just a coincidence that they drove out most of their non-Muslim population.

 

[Kautilya]

No, it's just a coincidence that they drove out most of their non-Muslim population.

The majority of them left to India just the same way Muslims moved from India to Pakistan. It was the largest migration in history. Nothing to do with establishing ethno states.

Also I just read, that non-Jews who naturalize in Israel and become citizens are required to renounce their citizenship in other countries. But this is not a requirement for Jews. This one rule for Jews another, for other people, is the definition of an ethnostate.

 

[shack]

Were Pakistan created by foreign settler colonialists?

The question is NOT how a state became the entity that it is, it is simply what king of state it is. As such Pakistan qualifies as an ethno-state.

The US and Canada are both democracies, but they became so under different circumstances. That doesn't change the fact that they're both democracies.

 

[shack]

Also I just read, that non-Jews who naturalize in Israel and become citizens are required to renounce their citizenship in other countries. But this is not a requirement for Jews. This one rule for Jews another, for other people, is the definition of an ethnostate.

Only if you are the one who makes the definitions.

From the Oxford Dectionary

ethnostate

/ˈeTHnōˌstāt/
noun

1. a sovereign state of which citizenship is restricted to members of a particular racial or ethnic group.
   

 

[shack]

There is no lying, doc.

Then why do you have the reputation of being the biggest liar on TERB?

Why don't you start a poll asking who lies the most? Guaranteed it would be a runaway.

 

[shack]

It is when the population was originally pretty diverse.

An ethno-state is determined by its' current status, not how it became that way.

 

[Kautilya]

Only if you are the one who makes the definitions.

From the Oxford Dectionary

ethnostate

/ˈeTHnōˌstāt/
noun

1. a sovereign state of which citizenship is restricted to members of a particular racial or ethnic group.

Yes, that is the state the Zionists wanted to build. Hence the ethnic cleansing aka the Nakba of 1948, the genocide, apartheid, unequal laws etc.,

 

[shack]

Yes, that is the state the Zionists wanted to build. Hence the ethnic cleansing aka the Nakba of 1948, the genocide, apartheid, unequal laws etc.,

Kautilya said:
Also I just read, that non-Jews who naturalize in Israel and become citizens are required to renounce their citizenship in other countries. But this is not a requirement for Jews. This one rule for Jews another, for other people, is the definition of an ethnostate.

This is your original definition which is nothing close to the Oxford definition. Pretzel.

 

[Frankfooter]

The question is NOT how a state became the entity that it is, it is simply what king of state it is. As such Pakistan qualifies as an ethno-state.

The US and Canada are both democracies, but they became so under different circumstances. That doesn't change the fact that they're both democracies.

Israel is not a democracy, hammy.
Its an apartheid state committing genocide against its indigenous population.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1794277187178434938

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1794023208833708333

 

[Frankfooter]

Then why do you have the reputation of being the biggest liar on TERB?

Why don't you start a poll asking who lies the most? Guaranteed it would be a runaway.

We are back to this game, more accusations of lying that you have never been able to back up.

shack counter:
27 accusations of lying, 44 intentional misquotes (straw man arguments) - 0 proof

Israel and your lying has been debunked repeatedly here.
You support the most evil movement on the planet right now.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1782737187982721039

 

[southpaw]

This one rule for Jews another, for other people, is the definition of an ethnostate.

By your definition, Pakistan is an ethnostate.

Religious discrimination in Pakistan - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Article 41(2) provides that only Muslims can become President and the Prime Minister.
...
To prove theft liable to hadd, evidence of two Muslim adult male witnesses, who are pure in Islamic concept, is required. A non-Muslim’s evidence will not be accepted for hadd punishment where the accused is a Muslim.

 

[Kautilya]

Kautilya said:
Also I just read, that non-Jews who naturalize in Israel and become citizens are required to renounce their citizenship in other countries. But this is not a requirement for Jews. This one rule for Jews another, for other people, is the definition of an ethnostate.

This is your original definition which is nothing close to the Oxford definition. Pretzel.

And I am agreeing with the definition you posted and I am providing uncomfortable examples from the past and the present that prove that Israel is an ethnostate. So let me rephrase my statement earlier to align with the definition you posted:

Also I just read, that non-Jews who naturalize in Israel and become citizens are required to renounce their citizenship in other countries. But this is not a requirement for Jews. This one citizenship rule for Jews, and another for other people, to enable ethno-supremacy is the definition of an is a feature of the Israeli ethnostate.

Happy?

By your definition, Pakistan is an ethnostate.

Religious discrimination in Pakistan - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Article 41(2) provides that only Muslims can become President and the Prime Minister.
...
To prove theft liable to hadd, evidence of two Muslim adult male witnesses, who are pure in Islamic concept, is required. A non-Muslim’s evidence will not be accepted for hadd punishment where the accused is a Muslim.

That is religious discrimination. So per this law you have posted on theft , a Punjabi non-Muslim would need 2 Muslim witnesses to prove an accusation of theft against him/her. A Punjabi Muslim on the other hand, would not. Notice how both are of Punjabi ethnicity. The discrimination therefore is based on religion, not ethnicity.

 

[southpaw]

The discrimination therefore is based on religion, not ethnicity.

I said by your definition.

This one rule for Jews another, for other people, is the definition of an ethnostate.

There are European Jews, Middle Eastern Jews, Ethiopian Jews. Judaism is a religion.

So they both discriminate based on religion.

Can't admit a mistake when you make one. And you accuse me of Desi stubbornness, LOL.

 

[Kautilya]

I said by your definition.

There are European Jews, Middle Eastern Jews, Ethiopian Jews. Judaism is a religion.

So they both discriminate based on religion.

Can't admit a mistake when you make one. And you accuse me of Desi stubbornness, LOL.

I was talking about citizenship and you were talking about theft. My usage of the word definition seems to be such a big issue, even though the idea I was conveying was quite clear. Okay. How about I rephrase my original statement, if the word "definition" is such a big issue?

Also I just read, that non-Jews who naturalize in Israel and become citizens are required to renounce their citizenship in other countries. But this is not a requirement for Jews. This one citizenship rule for Jews, and another for other people, to enable ethno-supremacy is the definition of an is a feature of the Israeli ethnostate.

Happy?

 

[southpaw]

Happy?

I'd be happy if you held all states founded for a particular religion accountable. Whether it is a Jewish state or an Islamic state.

They both discriminate against the people who don't follow their official religion.

 

[Kautilya]

I'd be happy if you held all states founded for a particular religion accountable. Whether it is a Jewish state or an Islamic state.

They both discriminate against the people who don't follow their official religion.

Only one of those states is committing genocide presently using tax payer money of foreign nations.

 

[roddermac]

Isn't everything communism now?
The freedom convoy types were out protesting something or other the other day with 'globalism is communism' signs.

Aren't all freedom movements racist white supremacist right wingers now.